Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

[Howardh]

Post-Brexit, those jobs may well be filled not by Brits but by 'brown people'. The exact opposite of what the Brextremists thought they were voting for.

interesting to note the reports that EU nursing staff are leaving in droves/not coming so the gaps will have to be found from somewhere, and I wouldn't have thought there would be a rush from well-off nations to fill the gaps in our crumbling over-worked, under-paid NHS - so the replacements are likely to come from the sub-continent and africa.

 

[najaB]

interesting to note the reports that EU nursing staff are leaving in droves/not coming so the gaps will have to be found from somewhere, and I wouldn't have thought there would be a rush from well-off nations to fill the gaps in our crumbling over-worked, under-paid NHS - so the replacements are likely to come from the sub-continent and africa.

Well, a lot of pro-Brexit people did seem to want to take things back to how they were in the 1950's. MV Windrush 2?

 

[Howardh]

Well, a lot of pro-Brexit people did seem to want to take things back to how they were in the 1950's. MV Windrush 2?

I suppose we could always get the Brownies to upgrade their basic first-aid badge to SRN over a couple of extra sessions. Should cover us.

 

[najaB]

I suppose we could always get the Brownies...

Given the context of this post (immigration from outside Europe) that caused a double-take!

 

[Howardh]

Given the context of this post (immigration from outside Europe) that caused a double-take!

LOL - ahem, yes. To be honest it's a long time since I was a scout, but just checking it seems that term is still in use. The last time I saw a Brownie was on Blue Peter - I think they were being set on fire. Hopefully there will be more around if we have to replace A + E with them.

 

[jon0844]

Yay, interest rates are up.

Good news for the older people who have loads of savings I suppose!

 

[Cowley]

Yay, interest rates are up.

Good news for the older people who have loads of savings I suppose!

And me. I renewed my fixed rate mortgage yesterday for two years.
I nearly left it to be done next week.
It doesn’t help the fact that I bought the house three weeks before the last financial crash though when everything was ridiculously over priced.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yay, interest rates are up.

Good news for the older people who have loads of savings I suppose!

Good news for young people trying to save a deposit for a mortgage.

 

[Hornet]

Yay, interest rates are up.

Good news for the older people who have loads of savings I suppose!

Got to pay for the servants and caviar, old chap!

 

[AM9]

Good news for young people trying to save a deposit for a mortgage.

Although they won't realise it yet, good news for those tempted to increase (or not reduce) their unsecured credit. We were heading for another credit crunch despite the government being in denial talking about there never being more people in employment.

 

[jon0844]

Although they won't realise it yet, good news for those tempted to increase (or not reduce) their unsecured credit. We were heading for another credit crunch despite the government being in denial talking about there never being more people in employment.

Yes, given how many people are financing new cars and now seemingly being happy to pay as much as £116 a month (Three) for a new iPhone X - expected to be in HUGE demand for months - I can only imagine we're repeating what happened in the late 1990s and early 2000s and borrowing to make up for reduced pay and increased costs of goods and services.

I am not looking forward to it going bang again.

Banks were supposed to be more responsible but if you seek to borrow money, they have to show you a video and make it clear the risk, but once they tick that box it's presumably business as usual.

 

[Hornet]

I'm still waiting to find out which "diktats" handed down by the EU/EC have negatively affected anyone's lives here?

Anyone, or can I take that as a no and we move on to try to find another reason to leave the EU....

Increased the qualifying age for my State pension, the b*stards.

More increases in the qualifying age for the State pension are due to come into effect over the coming years. It will increase to 67 years in 2021 and to 68 years in 2028.

The changes were agreed with the EU-IMF troika as a condition of the State’s bailout and are aimed at ensuring the future sustainability of the pensions system.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-pension-age-increases-to-66-1.1641529

If the EU-IMF troika wants to threaten setting off an 'economic' bomb in Dublin, by not allowing a democratically elected Government to 'burn the bondholders', as proposed in Fine Gael's Manifesto in 2011, then screw over people by dumping 200bn of European banking debt on them, then stitching them up over their state pension was the last straw. (Now the EU is illegally interfering in Ireland's Corporation Tax Affairs. Tax Affairs are for National Governments to decide on, NOT the EU). At least as a UK citizen with a legal entitlement to vote in UK elections and referenda (I do not partake in Irish elections or referenda), I made sure that my displeasure was registered via my postal vote, which I hand delivered to the returning officer in my home town.

Coming next from the EU.

Qualified Majority Voting on all items, with individual countries vetoes being discarded.
Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base which, in Ireland, is considered as a greater threat to the Irish Economy than Brexit.
The EU Army (Watch the Irish go into meltdown over that).
Ever Closer Union leading to Federalisation. (Why don't the Commission tell the People of Europe that this is the end game)? The Shinners/IRA will be bombing Brussels once they realise that Ireland will be an insignificant peripheral entity run from Brussels/Frankfurt.
All EU States to be forced to use the Euro, sounding the death knell of their Economic and Financial Independence. (For the UK that would have seen the end of London as a Global Financial hub, and the loss of untold amounts of financial jobs to Frankfurt).
The Euro is a political currency. It is not based on sound financial principles as there is no Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base, and the European Central Bank needs to control all EU nations banks to make it a fiscally sound currency. (The Euro has also been weighted towards the German Economy to the detriment of most other EU economy's, noted by the high amount of Youth Unemployment in Southern and Eastern EU states).
Of course the people of Europe are very enthusiastic about the EU. or are they? A rise in nationalist politics, and the fact that the lowest percentage of Europeans voted in the last European Elections (43.54%. A good turn out for a Borough Election!).

It’s official: Last EU election had lowest-ever turnout

http://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-...ial-last-eu-election-had-lowest-ever-turnout/

Anyway that's my view. You may disagree, but I wish I had put money on my previous predictions, I'd have become a rich man!

 

[furnessvale]

I'm still waiting to find out which "diktats" handed down by the EU/EC have negatively affected anyone's lives here?

Anyone, or can I take that as a no and we move on to try to find another reason to leave the EU....

I believe you asked that question of me several days ago.
I have been away on my canal boat for some time and out of internet contact (which is a blessed relief at times).
In answer to your question, as a direct result of EU diktats, I now have to pay full road duty on red diesel I use for propulsion in my boat. This amounts to several hundreds pounds per year. The UK was quite happy with the system we had but this did not suit the EU.

 

[fowler9]

I believe you asked that question of me several days ago.
I have been away on my canal boat for some time and out of internet contact (which is a blessed relief at times).
In answer to your question, as a direct result of EU diktats, I now have to pay full road duty on red diesel I use for propulsion in my boat. This amounts to several hundreds pounds per year. The UK was quite happy with the system we had but this did not suit the EU.

I believe that recently the Monmouthshire and Brecon canal was up for £27 million pounds of EU funding. I guess it would have been fine and the UK would have put the money in otherwise.

 

[Howardh]

I believe you asked that question of me several days ago.
I have been away on my canal boat for some time and out of internet contact (which is a blessed relief at times).
In answer to your question, as a direct result of EU diktats, I now have to pay full road duty on red diesel I use for propulsion in my boat. This amounts to several hundreds pounds per year. The UK was quite happy with the system we had but this did not suit the EU.

I get that you're not on the roads and the sea doesn't need tarmacing, but...blimey. If it gets around people using red diesel on the roads and not paying tax and not being caught then surely it's worth it? You are lucky enough to have a boat - and it costs a few bob to fuel it; think you can afford to handle it. Put it this way, after Brexit do you think the UK will reverse the situation? No, neither do I.
Happy sailing anyway - and you can always use your vest as a sail and do it properly *ducks*....

 

[Howardh]

Increased the qualifying age for my State pension, the b*stards.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-pension-age-increases-to-66-1.1641529

If the EU-IMF troika wants to threaten setting off an 'economic' bomb in Dublin, by not allowing a democratically elected Government to 'burn the bondholders', as proposed in Fine Gael's Manifesto in 2011, then screw over people by dumping 200bn of European banking debt on them, then stitching them up over their state pension was the last straw. (Now the EU is illegally interfering in Ireland's Corporation Tax Affairs. Tax Affairs are for National Governments to decide on, NOT the EU). At least as a UK citizen with a legal entitlement to vote in UK elections and referenda (I do not partake in Irish elections or referenda), I made sure that my displeasure was registered via my postal vote, which I hand delivered to the returning officer in my home town.

Coming next from the EU.

Qualified Majority Voting on all items, with individual countries vetoes being discarded.
Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base which, in Ireland, is considered as a greater threat to the Irish Economy than Brexit.
The EU Army (Watch the Irish go into meltdown over that).
Ever Closer Union leading to Federalisation. (Why don't the Commission tell the People of Europe that this is the end game)? The Shinners/IRA will be bombing Brussels once they realise that Ireland will be an insignificant peripheral entity run from Brussels/Frankfurt.
All EU States to be forced to use the Euro, sounding the death knell of their Economic and Financial Independence. (For the UK that would have seen the end of London as a Global Financial hub, and the loss of untold amounts of financial jobs to Frankfurt).
The Euro is a political currency. It is not based on sound financial principles as there is no Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base, and the European Central Bank needs to control all EU nations banks to make it a fiscally sound currency. (The Euro has also been weighted towards the German Economy to the detriment of most other EU economy's, noted by the high amount of Youth Unemployment in Southern and Eastern EU states).
Of course the people of Europe are very enthusiastic about the EU. or are they? A rise in nationalist politics, and the fact that the lowest percentage of Europeans voted in the last European Elections (43.54%. A good turn out for a Borough Election!).



http://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-...ial-last-eu-election-had-lowest-ever-turnout/

Anyway that's my view. You may disagree, but I wish I had put money on my previous predictions, I'd have become a rich man!

Think you've been reading the Daily Express too much! Very little of that will actually happen. The most likely is that new members will be "encouraged" to use the Euro and they probably would anyway. The Euro army could be a good thing considering ours is being run down by the Tories - it won't happen (too many complications like what if the Spanish send in their army to Catalonia/UK - Notheren Ireland) and the qualified voting will probably be vetoed (but not by the UK...) and if there are election low turn-outs, that could possibly be because people are happy with their lot? As for the IRA - won't they be bombing Britain (again) first as a result of the inevitable hard border?
At least there was no mention of 75 million on the march from Turkey, so thank you for that!!

 

[87 027]

I have just finished reading Adults In The Room, the memoir by Prof. Yanis Varoufakis about his time as Greek Finance Minister trying (and ultimately failing) to renegotiate the terms of the Greek bailout with the troika in 2015.

Interestingly whilst he is highly scathing about the EU institutions and most of the people he dealt with, he argues for a radical remain position in the Brexit debate on the grounds that reform is preferable to what he calls "the dystopia unfolding as Europe disintegrates." He makes the point that leaving something is not the same as never having joined it, and is not necessarily the best course of action, even if joining in the first place was with hindsight a mistake.

Anyone reading the book will be left in no doubt how difficult negotiations are going to be, especially where EU political considerations are prioritised above economic ones.

@Hornet - Declan Costello gets a particularly dishonourable mention as one of the EU hardliners - an "un-Irish Irishman"

 

[furnessvale]

I believe that recently the Monmouthshire and Brecon canal was up for £27 million pounds of EU funding. I guess it would have been fine and the UK would have put the money in otherwise.

Once again I point out that every penny of "EU" money spent in the UK (and a lot more besides) was given to the EU beforehand.
An independent UK can decide for itself where it spends its money and if that is not the Mon and Brec so be it.
At least I will be able to vote every 5 years to affect policies.

 

[furnessvale]

Happy sailing anyway - and you can always use your vest as a sail and do it properly *ducks*....[/QUOTE]
I was asked to give a concrete example of EU interference and I have done so.
I certainly did not post expecting any sympathy so I am not disappointed. I only hope that when the EU swings to the right, as it inevitably will do, you and others are equally relaxed about the political colour of its diktats.
By the way, I hope another poster has completed his piano lessons. Had I not been away on the boat he would have had minutes, not days, to complete them.

 

[DarloRich]

I believe you asked that question of me several days ago.
I have been away on my canal boat for some time and out of internet contact (which is a blessed relief at times).
In answer to your question, as a direct result of EU diktats, I now have to pay full road duty on red diesel I use for propulsion in my boat. This amounts to several hundreds pounds per year. The UK was quite happy with the system we had but this did not suit the EU.

Once again I point out that every penny of "EU" money spent in the UK (and a lot more besides) was given to the EU beforehand.
An independent UK can decide for itself where it spends its money and if that is not the Mon and Brec so be it.
At least I will be able to vote every 5 years to affect policies.

Diktats - typical Faragian language - love it. I wonder if you were able to read my post at #416. I am still not sure you understand ( or care) how EU law becomes national law.

The government will not ( and can not) replace the money the EU spends in this country. Projects that have benefited residents here are funded by EU money ( which, of course, comes from member states). Similar projects, especially in the regions, will not be delivered after Brexit. How are the government going to fill the void left by, say, the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF). The last report i can find ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...07-13_summary_of_projects_-_December_2015.pdf ) shows that the ERDF spent £320m in the North East alone. Despite your faith those of us from that area know the Tories will never cover that funding. Projects simply wont happen. Residents wont benefit. There is an interesting Guardian ( sorry terribly leftard i KNOW!) article here that adds a bit more information: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/31/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-my-town

We should also consider the the European Social Fund ( ESF) who provide the UK with £500m per year to help adult education and support those disadvantaged to access education, skills and training. There will be people on this board who benefit from this support and training as one common area is IT training. They deliver much of the governments agenda for improving adult numeracy and literacy. How is this going to be funded?

They are but 2 examples before we turn to the biggest elephant in the room: CAP. The Common Agricultural Policy pays UK farmers £3bn per year. The government have confirmed that these payments will continue. This means that we have a lot of money to find to fund all of these commitments. You seem confident the government will find the money to do so. I am not.

It is good that you have a personal reason for voting to leave the EU. I just wonder about the proportionality.

PS: I am happy to accept the EU is far from perfect and I have many concerns about how it operates. I am happy to accept that the money spent in the UK could be spent better sometimes. I am happy to accept the government may deliver a bumper money tree harvest and keep all these things going. I am happy to accept the Tories may change their spots and invest in the regions and deliver projects and polices that support social cohesion and mutual advancement. I accept all this could happen. I just doubt it will.

 

[Howardh]

Happy sailing anyway - and you can always use your vest as a sail and do it properly *ducks*....

I was asked to give a concrete example of EU interference and I have done so.
I certainly did not post expecting any sympathy so I am not disappointed. I only hope that when the EU swings to the right, as it inevitably will do, you and others are equally relaxed about the political colour of its diktats.
By the way, I hope another poster has completed his piano lessons. Had I not been away on the boat he would have had minutes, not days, to complete them.

[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong - I'm glad someone has actually come up with a solid reason for leaving - I thank you for that. At my end I think the EU forces me to "agree" to up the volume on my ipod - not sure if that's a "diktat" from the EU and someone may confirm.
But the positives of being in the EU far outweigh the negatives and there are plenty of taxes put on stuff by our own government which I don't like - air travel duty for one. But I'm afraid we have to grin and bear it...heaven knows what's coming when we consider tariffs and the like.