OK mate.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Brexit - Deal or No Deal?
- Thread starter telstarbox
- Start date
- Status
OK mate.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Again, far from concise.
I've no intention to debate you, I'm just still to hear a reasonable, rational, fact-based argument in favour of Brexit. Sadly it seems like the wait will continue.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
Over the months there have been plenty of facts posted on both sides of the argument.
Remainers will choose to believe that the facts they post are true and immovable, and those posted by Leavers are false and built on jelly.
Leavers will choose to believe the exact opposite.
Assuming we leave, only time will prove who is correct. If by some chance we remain, the leave case will never have been tested so we will never know.
For this reason, I only post occasionally, and try not to get too heated about things.
I've not heard many arguments that are based on 'facts' which don't turn out to be provably false (£350M a week, anyone?). There are a lot of opinion-based arguments e.g. 'The EU is trying to take over national governments' but very few with hard data which supports them.
I fully agree with not getting het up about it.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
Q.E.D.
Remainer fact. "A vote to remain is a vote for the status quo". Even since the vote the tide of EU legislation has continued unabated. (Ports directive anyone?)
No surprise there - the EU didn't stop functioning on June 24th. The 'tide' of EU legislation would continue because the EU keeps on working, with or without the UK
birchesgreen
Established Member
Q.E.D.
Remainer fact. "A vote to remain is a vote for the status quo". Even since the vote the tide of EU legislation has continued unabated. (Ports directive anyone?)
Status quo = the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues
And as we are still in the EU we continue to be affected by it and legislation (which we have a part in creating). So the remainer fact is correct.
Do you have any Brexit facts?Q.E.D.
Remainer fact. "A vote to remain is a vote for the status quo". Even since the vote the tide of EU legislation has continued unabated. (Ports directive anyone?)
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
Indeed. Thus even since the vote the "status quo" has changed.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
The UK is a net contributor to EU funds.
That isn't really a fact about Brexit.
Mvann
Member
The uk's exports to the EU is dropping.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
Of course it is.
What you seem to be wanting is a hard verifiable fact about what will happen AFTER Brexit which of course is impossible.
I have however given a remain lie above, because the status quo has changed since the vote and we haven't even left yet.
Requeststop
Member
Having just visited the UK (London and South East, Manchester/Preston/ Bristol and Cornwall) and Southern Spain, North Italy, Frankfurt/Cologne, Paris and Amsterdam, I find that there is a deep gloom in the UK. Nearly everyone is low, whereas, I noticed that in Europe, everyone was walking around very confident. I wasn't going around asking everyone about Brexit and so on, but my feeling is that everyone in the UK is sick to death of the thing and just wish it was all sorted out and they can get on with their lives. Once it is sorted out and I believe most would say the sooner the better, the British will pick themselves up, dust themselves down and get on with life knowing what the future holds.
Europeans seem to be happy with their lot.
Europeans seem to be happy with their lot.
birchesgreen
Established Member
With respect you don't seem to understand what status quo means. It doesn't mean time stops.
Not sure what the problem is with that. If everyone got out exactly what they put in then what would the point be?
You are right that it is difficult to provide hard figures in pounds and pence but some kind of plan would have been nice before dragging us out of the EU. How is that a remain lie by the way?
I can't speak for others, but what I would appreciate is a fact-based argument for why being in the EU is a net loss for the UK. It goes without saying that predicting what will happen after Brexit is impossible, given that we don't even know what Brexit actually means.
KN1
Member
- Joined
- 19 Mar 2017
- Messages
- 101
Is there no limit to our contributions then ? would it be fine if we paid far more than we already do ?
Howardh
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2011
- Messages
- 9,797
Fair point - but it's just like having Sky. You are prepared to put so much in and if what you get out of it is OK, then you are happy. If you become unhappy, you leave or at lease try to get a new deal. The UK is/was free to leave the EU at any time, which is a great negotiating tool
But I can throw the question back...if it's down to pure figures, how much unemployment will the Brexiters take before they admit leaving was a mistake? Pound against the Euro? Inflation? There's very little chance of an answer there, and they will argue the figures go up and down constantly (again, fair point) but what if there's a spike and no return?
But I can throw the question back...if it's down to pure figures, how much unemployment will the Brexiters take before they admit leaving was a mistake? Pound against the Euro? Inflation? There's very little chance of an answer there, and they will argue the figures go up and down constantly (again, fair point) but what if there's a spike and no return?
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
By your own definition, Status Quo = the existing state of affairs.
If the law, or regulations, governing aspects of my life, changes, how is that NOT a change to the "existing state of affairs"?
Because the status quo was that EU directives are issued, then converted into national law.
furnessvale
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 4,914
Got it! So when remain used that wording without clarification, they were about as honest as the £350m per week!
Sorry, but I disagree - there was no 'clarification' needed, that has always been how it works.
£350 million was plucked out of thin air and then lies were told about what was going to be done with it. I don't think anyone ever said that no new EU directives will ever be issued.
I certainly don't remember any such statements being made by anyone in authority and would appreciate a link/source to confirm that they were.
- Status