Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

[highspeed990]

Most Brexit voters seem very unable to make good arguments for leaving but invariably end up at immigration, whereby they can talk forever as their 'true colours' are revealed.

And here it seems it has finally happened.

I'm particularly impressed given Somalia isn't in the EU and we aren't part of Schengen so weren't letting them in (and if we were, it wasn't because the EU made us).

Anyone would think that it has only ever been about immigration, and not of EU nationals either.

Don't blame me, my notifications aren't working. When I came back, this was the topic. However we have a point. Where do these somalians come from? I doubt they take a jumbo jet from their local gangland airport and take off through the crossfire. These so called 'refugees' make their way into the EU and the EU is pressuring us into accepting them. From all sorts of barbaric countries. They come here and wage jihad and assault our women, and what do we do? Hold candles, call people like me who are against it racist and wait for the next strike. Something needs to be done.

 

[Groningen]

Is there now already (extra) money for the NHS? There is talk that citizens in Essex can earn money if they receive a patient in their own home. So that a hospitalbed is saved. The amount is 100 Pound Sterling per patient per night.

 

[highspeed990]

Is there now already (extra) money for the NHS? There is talk that citizens in Essex can earn money if they receive a patient in their own home. So that a hospitalbed is saved. The amount is 100 Pound Sterling per patient per night.

This country has gone to the dogs.

 

[GusB]

Where do these somalians come from?

Er... Somalia?

I doubt they take a jumbo jet from their local gangland airport and take off through the crossfire. These so called 'refugees' make their way into the EU and the EU is pressuring us into accepting them

These people may be fleeing from persecution in their own country for whatever reason. They may have been trafficked out under false pretences of being offered a better life elsewhere. You make a lot of broad assumptions. Do you know each and every Somalian who has arrived on our shores and have you listened to their stories?

They come here and wage jihad and assault our women, and what do we do? Hold candles, call people like me who are against it racist and wait for the next strike.

Oh dear. What else are we to do but call people racist when they make such sweeping statements about a whole nation?

 

[RichmondCommu]

This country has gone to the dogs.

Woof woof.

 

[highspeed990]

Er... Somalia?

These people may be fleeing from persecution in their own country for whatever reason. They may have been trafficked out under false pretences of being offered a better life elsewhere. You make a lot of broad assumptions. Do you know each and every Somalian who has arrived on our shores and have you listened to their stories?

Oh dear. What else are we to do but call people racist when they make such sweeping statements about a whole nation?

We must look after our own people first, some of which are nurses, soldiers, and firemen sleeping rough.

 

[jon0844]

See what I meant earlier?

This is why people wanted out of the EU, yet the UK has generally been very good at accepting refugees and will continue to do so I'm sure.

So when we leave, I bet we still let Somalian refugees in. So will it have been worth all the other suffering?

Also, when it comes to homeless is it okay for non-nurses, firemen and soldiers to be on the streets? Anyone would think those were picked out for emotive purposes.

 

[Howardh]

See what I meant earlier?

So when we leave, I bet we still let Somalian refugees in. So will it have been worth all the other suffering?
.

Not only that, if we restrict the number of EU's arriving and "have control" then we can let in even more Somalis in. It's up to the government to decide what it wants to do...so it can let in more Ethiopians, Syrians, Libyans, anything it wants.

 

[AM9]

See what I meant earlier?

This is why people wanted out of the EU, yet the UK has generally been very good at accepting refugees and will continue to do so I'm sure.

So when we leave, I bet we still let Somalian refugees in. So will it have been worth all the other suffering?...

At least they won't be risking their lives so much jumping onto trucks leaving France as those vehicles will be standing still in long queues for plenty of time to allow safe boarding.

 

[najaB]

As the topic has moved onto immigration, let's say it makes my blood boil that some somalian with 8 kids turns up and gets a free house while homeless soldiers starve on the streets.

Three points:

1. That isn't true.
2. If it was true then it's not the EU's fault
3. [Point 3 removed, apologies if anyone was offended]

 

[Howardh]

Three points:

1. That isn't true.
2. If it was true then it's not the EU's fault
3. Get to **** you racist mother ****

Look on the bright side, Furnessvale's vote has given the government the green light to allow in even more "Somali's with 8 kids" should they wish. So he's done the poorest and most persecuted a huge favour...we should thank him for his humanity!

 

[najaB]

We must look after our own people first, some of which are nurses, soldiers, and firemen sleeping rough.

As a nation have always had the ability and resources to do so, we just choose not to. I don't see how leaving the EU will make any difference.

 

[jon0844]

Ultimately, as proven by 90% of the comments from leavers shortly after the referendum result, it was a vote to get rid of foreigners, but in order not to admit this we got all the 'taking our country back' nonsense.

Pretty much the same as the US with Trump supporters and a Government made up of pretty much only white males. They're also trying to take their country back.

I swear every discussion on Brexit usually starts with the EU having too much power to talk of foreigners taking our jobs. It's so predictable that it's actually funny.

 

[nlogax]

So, how's the bingo going so far?

 

[fowler9]

We must look after our own people first, some of which are nurses, soldiers, and firemen sleeping rough.

I'm not sure how many nurses or firemen are sleeping rough but I can comment on soldiers. Social Housing does actually prioritise housing service men and women when they leave the forces, there is absolutely no need for any former member of the forces to be sleeping rough. Many of those that are are suffering from mental health and substance abuse problems. Where I work the charity the company sponsors is SSAFA (Soldiers Sailors Airmen and Families Association) whos main role is supporting members of the armed forces and their families when they leave the forces, particularly those with mental health and substance abuse problems. To say that this country prioritises housing Somalians or Syrians is simply not true. As for the EU forcing us to take them there are many members of the EU who aren't taking them without being kicked out of the EU. The only good thing about Brexit is that it is going to make a lot of people realise that a lot of the stuff they blame the EU for is actually the fault of our own government and then maybe they will vote them out.

For the record I work with the MOD directly involved in housing and spend my working day talking to service personel (You would be amazed how many of them aren't "Our own") and also their Welfare officers. My ex girlfriends dad was also a Regimental Sergeant Major who finished up his military career being a welfare officer, we are still friends. I know what I am talking about.

As a further aside our company also has targets to employ ex service men and women, teach them a trade and give them a job. To say that this country prioritises refugees and other immigrants is a lie perpetrated by racists and believed by far too many.

 

[jon0844]

Many leavers don't care for expert opinion, so please keep facts to yourselves!

 

[Howardh]

I'm not sure how many nurses or firemen are sleeping rough but I can comment on soldiers. Social Housing does actually prioritise housing service men and women when they leave the forces, there is absolutely no need for any former member of the forces to be sleeping rough. Many of those that are are suffering from mental health and substance abuse problems. Where I work the charity the company sponsors is SSAFA (Soldiers Sailors Airmen and Families Association) whos main role is supporting members of the armed forces and their families when they leave the forces, particularly those with mental health and substance abuse problems. To say that this country prioritises housing Somalians or Syrians is simply not true. As for the EU forcing us to take them there are many members of the EU who aren't taking them without being kicked out of the EU. The only good thing about Brexit is that it is going to make a lot of people realise that a lot of the stuff they blame the EU for is actually the fault of our own government and then maybe they will vote them out.

For the record I work with the MOD directly involved in housing and spend my working day talking to service personel (You would be amazed how many of them aren't "Our own") and also their Welfare officers. My ex girlfriends dad was also a Regimental Sergeant Major who finished up his military career being a welfare officer, we are still friends. I know what I am talking about.

As a further aside our company also has targets to employ ex service men and women, teach them a trade and give them a job. To say that this country prioritises refugees and other immigrants is a lie perpetrated by racists and believed by far too many.

Please don't let facts get in the way of a Brexiter's story.

 

[fowler9]

I live in hope that maybe even just one person will read what I posted and accept that they are wrong.

 

[jon0844]

I live in hope that maybe even just one person will read what I posted and accept that they are wrong.

If your reason to vote was to try and bring up the drawbridge and even send people home, you're not interested in being corrected because you don't really care about the politics or economics. That's the cover for your inherent racism and xenophobia that always rears its ugly head eventually.

No wonder it's so hard to get anyone to argue the case for leaving the EU and it's always so vague, with constant attempts to deflect and attack. There has never been much thought or understanding about what the EU does, nor any interest in learning now.

 

[fowler9]

If your reason to vote was to try and bring up the drawbridge and even send people home, you're not interested in being corrected because you don't really care about the politics or economics. That's the cover for your inherent racism and xenophobia that always rears its ugly head eventually.

No wonder it's so hard to get anyone to argue the case for leaving the EU and it's always so vague, with constant attempts to deflect and attack. There has never been much thought or understanding about what the EU does, nor any interest in learning now.

There is the problem. Not with all but with many Brexiters it is racism. Hence why this thread has come down to Somalians and looking after our own. We actually do look after our service men and women very well. Frustratingly enough you cannot always save them.

 

[jon0844]

There are good, valid, arguments about concerns with the EU but leaving isn't the way to fix them. Indeed, remaining in seems more sensible considering we still want to trade.

We had such a strong say on EU matters, it's mad to give that up and then try and sort a deal and hope for the best as outsiders.

I'd probably sooner us be governed by the EU and ditch our Government!

 

[Cowley]

I live in hope that maybe even just one person will read what I posted and accept that they are wrong.

I knew much of that anyway due to working in Social Services adult services (we picked up quite a few struggling ex forces guys and set them up with the appropriate support).
Very well stated though Fowler9.

 

[jon0844]

I don't have a problem with someone admitting their reason for leaving the EU was down to immigration. I just wish they'd stop trying to pretend they care, or understand, the other issues.

Before the referendum we were free to raise concerns about the way the EU was going, and even try and do something about it because - shock - we were part of the EU. We had a say. The public even voted for their MEPs even if many seem unaware of this.

 

[najaB]

... and simply have your post amended to ' post removed- sorry for any offence caused'.

I amended the post, not the moderators. If you think that my post is unacceptable then please report it.

 

[Barn]

The immigration issue frustrates me because I think T-May (a) has a bit of a thing about immigration anyway from her Home Office days and (b) thinks it is vital to the Brexit vote.

But the official Vote Leave campaign was much more reassuring to EU citizens resident here than T-May has been since. I think EU citizens have been put through the wringer far more than they would have been under a Brexiter government. Compare T-May to this video of Boris: https://order-order.com/2017/10/27/boris-tells-eu-citizens-your-rights-protected-whatever-happens/

 

[fowler9]

Isn't it whimsical that the Daily Mail are saying that whilst 90% of Catalan voters wanted to leave only 43% of the population voted. Perhaps they should look closer to home when they parrot on about leaving the EU.

 

[Barn]

Isn't it whimsical that the Daily Mail are saying that whilst 90% of Catalan voters wanted to leave only 43% of the population voted. Perhaps they should look closer to home when they parrot on about leaving the EU.

Big issue in both the referendum and parliamentary vote in Catalonia was that one side boycotted due to their dubious legality. Very difficult to a lawful referendum with official campaigns.

 

[fowler9]

True chief.

 

[KN1]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/872314/MEP-economic-efficiency-Brussels-EU-army-Juncker

A German MEP has outlined how the EU will push through its plans to build its own army - by encouraging member states to "save money" by handing over control of military affairs.
The European Union will persuade other member-states to join Jean-Claude Juncker's plan for a bloc-wide army by grounding it in "economic efficiency".

Jo Leinen, a German MEP, dropped the shock revelation yesterday, claiming the policy of national armies "cannot continue" for much longer.

It comes as Donald Tusk, the European Council President, plans to set up an EU army by the end of the year to fight back against “destabilisation around Europe”.

How can this be as all the "clever" posters on here have long said an EU army is simply a myth, just the Leavers scaremongering they said.

 

[AM9]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/872314/MEP-economic-efficiency-Brussels-EU-army-Juncker


How can this be as all the "clever" posters on here have long said an EU army is simply a myth, just the Leavers scaremongering they said.

These politicians can try all they wish to create the impression of an impending EU force in terms that look like it will be inevitable. They, (and of course the Express) know that there is no mechanism in the EU constitution that could be used to compel members to agree or contribute to such an organisation. So even if we were to be a member for the forseeable future, we could not be compelled to take part in it. Of course, there's nothing to stop a greedy administration from taking the opportunity to reduce their budget for defence, but I have never heard any UK polotical party even toy with such an idea. So in effect, the article is just a leaver-backed newspaper's attempt to sway a few more UK views towards the leaving camp, (or more likely lately, stop a few leavers thinking that remaining in the EU might not be so bad given all the other problems that are being revealed).