New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[swt_passenger]

Did the franchise announcement headlines about 'speeding up mainline services' not include the Portsmouth branch then?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I've noticed that unless GWR retime the Gatwick service you have conflict at Guildford and/or Shalford Junction.

What they should be doing is:

1 x limited stop: Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Havant, Southsea, Harbour

1 x Semi: Clapham, Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Southsea, Harbour

2 x Stoppers: Clapham, Worplesdon (1tph), Guildford (loop 1tph), Farncombe, Godalming, Milford (1tph), Witley (1tph), Haslemere (loop 1tph), Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Rowlands Castle (1tph), Havant, Bedhampton (1 tph), Hilsea (1 tph), Fratton, Southsea.

All their proposals do is just encourage people to get in their cars from the Guildford area and be down on the coast quicker, I know I can do Fareham from Guildford in an hour, Southampton in about 90' and that's centre to centre.

Train - Doesn't come into it as I can come & go at my leisure.

Any coach/bus company could/will be laughing all the way to the bank as they'll be using the A3 and with a fast coach service getting all the way down to the Harbour quicker than the train!

 

[superalbs]

Proposed timetables now online available here:

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/timetable-consultation

Appears Liphook and Godalming are early winners.

Looks like Pinhoe finally gets the hourly service it needs!

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like Pinhoe finally gets the hourly service it needs!

As you'll know from the earlier discussion it was a requirement of the specification, so not such a surprise?

 

[pompeyfan]

The battery on my device is running low, what’s the current end to end time compared to the proposed end to end? Didn’t they say they’d trim 8 minutes off the direct?

I’ve just looked,

Current time 1h37 end to end
New time 1h32 end to end even with the additional Godalming call.

 

[superalbs]

As you'll know from the earlier discussion it was a requirement of the specification, so not such a surprise?

Still very exciting!

Also looks like the 0644 Exeter-Waterloo will now be called 'The Sarum Express'.

I like named services, they add a lot of character to the railway.

 

[moley]

What a load of rubbish that Portsmouth Direct service is.

SWR should be eliminating stops NOT increasing the number of them because all it does is make the A3 even more appealing with a journey time from Guildford to Portsmouth being around about 50 mins, compared to the 1hr 10 or more by train, a train where you have to put up with kids and people jabbering on their mobiles.

Compare that to the ability to come & go when you like, be down to Portsmouth quicker than the train and have the music you want or to have peace & quiet no jibbering buffoon on the phone & no kids.

It might cost a tad more, but at the end of the day I get more freedom by car than by train and so the choice that I & many others will make is CAR!

This is rubbish and not what was suggested by the focus groups which heavily implied that at least one service would skip Guildford in the peak flow direction and first stop Godalming (bearing in mind that Guildford is a compulsory stop only on standard pattern services and a peak extra is anyone's guess).

 

[FenMan]

I've noticed that unless GWR retime the Gatwick service you have conflict at Guildford and/or Shalford Junction.

And (possibly) an insanely short turnaround time at Reading for the hourly stopper.

The Table 156 draft messes up the currently decent change times at Guildford for London passengers changing to/from NDL services from Reading. I very much hope GWR push back on this.

Speaking selfishly, if the GWR schedule remains pretty much "as is" my journey times from Blackwater to/from Waterloo will increase from 1h00m to a new normal of 1h12m to to 1h19m outside of the peaks. As a bonus, the last down connection from Waterloo would have a dangerously tight minimum 5 minute connection. Get ready to book taxis lads!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The battery on my device is running low, what’s the current end to end time compared to the proposed end to end? Didn’t they say they’d trim 8 minutes off the direct?

I’ve just looked,

Current time 1h37 end to end
New time 1h32 end to end even with the additional Godalming call.

That's because they've been cunning and removed the padding that currently exists between Guildford & Haslemere and Petersfield & Havant.

You have to remember a true fast service will do the trip from Guildford to Haslemere in approx 14' which isn't bad considering the gradients are against you all the way, you can do the up direction in 13'.

The current timetable allows you between 14-20' to do the piffling little 13 mile journey, that's why I don't do anymore than 45 mph between Guildford & Haslemere with a 1P, you just catch up the preceding service.

So you can immediately see where 6' has gone and you can take out another 3-4' of padding around Havant too.

If you leave Petersfield RT you can shut off at Bolinge Hill and coast all the way to Havant and still be there RT and there's a more than reasonable chance of doing the near impossible & that's going straight into Havant without stopping on HT19.

On the up I can go all the way from Havant to Petersfield with only one touch of the brake and that's to maintain the 40 through Buriton Tunnel and the necessary braking for Petersfield, if I drove it like a 1P service should be, I'd be sitting there at Petersfield a good 4' early and I know that if I chase it from Petersfield to Haslemere I could be sitting at Haslemere long enough to get a coffee and that's 5', if I'm leisurely I shut off at Liphook and just glide in to Haslemere a minute early!

Leaving Haslemere I can shut off at 45 mph and glide all the way to Guildford, only braking for the 60 section through Ashtead/Godalming to Farncombe and even then I can let it keep going with clear aspects and arrive Guildford RT.

If you do a proper fast with existing stops you can do the journey in 1h 25/27, that's still 5' faster.

I'm quite glad to see that other posters have tended to agree with me that the proposed timetable is utter tripe. And if that's what they intend to do then if I want to go to the coast I'll be in the car.

 

[moley]

That's because they've been cunning and removed the padding that currently exists between Guildford & Haslemere and Petersfield & Havant.

You have to remember a true fast service will do the trip from Guildford to Haslemere in approx 14' which isn't bad considering the gradients are against you all the way, you can do the up direction in 13'.

The current timetable allows you between 14-20' to do the piffling little 13 mile journey, that's why I don't do anymore than 45 mph between Guildford & Haslemere with a 1P, you just catch up the preceding service.

So you can immediately see where 6' has gone and you can take out another 3-4' of padding around Havant too.

If you leave Petersfield RT you can shut off at Bolinge Hill and coast all the way to Havant and still be there RT and there's a more than reasonable chance of doing the near impossible & that's going straight into Havant without stopping on HT19.

On the up I can go all the way from Havant to Petersfield with only one touch of the brake and that's to maintain the 40 through Buriton Tunnel and the necessary braking for Petersfield, if I drove it like a 1P service should be, I'd be sitting there at Petersfield a good 4' early and I know that if I chase it from Petersfield to Haslemere I could be sitting at Haslemere long enough to get a coffee and that's 5', if I'm leisurely I shut off at Liphook and just glide in to Haslemere a minute early!

Leaving Haslemere I can shut off at 45 mph and glide all the way to Guildford, only braking for the 60 section through Ashtead/Godalming to Farncombe and even then I can let it keep going with clear aspects and arrive Guildford RT.

If you do a proper fast with existing stops you can do the journey in 1h 25/27, that's still 5' faster.

I'm quite glad to see that other posters have tended to agree with me that the proposed timetable is utter tripe. And if that's what they intend to do then if I want to go to the coast I'll be in the car.

Maybe I'm unusual in that I commute from Portsmouth to Guildford and its a clear choice between car and train. This does nothing for anyone unless they are going in/out London.

 

[pompeyfan]

That's because they've been cunning and removed the padding that currently exists between Guildford & Haslemere and Petersfield & Havant.

You have to remember a true fast service will do the trip from Guildford to Haslemere in approx 14' which isn't bad considering the gradients are against you all the way, you can do the up direction in 13'.

The current timetable allows you between 14-20' to do the piffling little 13 mile journey, that's why I don't do anymore than 45 mph between Guildford & Haslemere with a 1P, you just catch up the preceding service.

So you can immediately see where 6' has gone and you can take out another 3-4' of padding around Havant too.

If you leave Petersfield RT you can shut off at Bolinge Hill and coast all the way to Havant and still be there RT and there's a more than reasonable chance of doing the near impossible & that's going straight into Havant without stopping on HT19.

On the up I can go all the way from Havant to Petersfield with only one touch of the brake and that's to maintain the 40 through Buriton Tunnel and the necessary braking for Petersfield, if I drove it like a 1P service should be, I'd be sitting there at Petersfield a good 4' early and I know that if I chase it from Petersfield to Haslemere I could be sitting at Haslemere long enough to get a coffee and that's 5', if I'm leisurely I shut off at Liphook and just glide in to Haslemere a minute early!

Leaving Haslemere I can shut off at 45 mph and glide all the way to Guildford, only braking for the 60 section through Ashtead/Godalming to Farncombe and even then I can let it keep going with clear aspects and arrive Guildford RT.

If you do a proper fast with existing stops you can do the journey in 1h 25/27, that's still 5' faster.

I'm quite glad to see that other posters have tended to agree with me that the proposed timetable is utter tripe. And if that's what they intend to do then if I want to go to the coast I'll be in the car.

Thanks for such an in-depth reply, I genuinely couldn’t argue with a thing you’ve said. Off topic slightly but do you think professional driving policies and defensive driving techniques have made the situation much worse?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks for such an in-depth reply, I genuinely couldn’t argue with a thing you’ve said. Off topic slightly but do you think professional driving policies and defensive driving techniques have made the situation much worse?

There was the big SWT timetable recast of ten or so years ago (?) where the underlying logic was driven by passengers preferring a reliable, on-time railway over faster services. This did indeed slow everything down, but did make it all more reliable and on-time too.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was the big SWT timetable recast of ten or so years ago (?) where the underlying logic was driven by passengers preferring a reliable, on-time railway over faster services. This did indeed slow everything down, but did make it all more reliable and on-time too.

Longer than that, it was Dec 2004.

 

[swt_passenger]

Following the earlier posted link will now show the Consultation Document is available, and the link to the Windsor timetable has been fixed...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There was the big SWT timetable recast of ten or so years ago (?) where the underlying logic was driven by passengers preferring a reliable, on-time railway over faster services. This did indeed slow everything down, but did make it all more reliable and on-time too.

But has it?

You only need to look through all of the times where things have gone wrong and you'll see that rather than being more reliable, things only need the slightest knock and the service collapses like a house of cards in a breeze.

There have been numerous occasions where something has gone wrong in the morning and they're still trying to correct it at 2000 or later in the evening!

I'd comment further about the 2004 timetable, but I think I'll keep those thoughts to myself for obvious reasons.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Maybe I'm unusual in that I commute from Portsmouth to Guildford and its a clear choice between car and train. This does nothing for anyone unless they are going in/out London.

Depends where you want to be in Guildford too, also if you know the back streets & routes which can cut out the traffic bottlenecks.

If you're away from the town centre then the car is the logical choice, if town centre the choice isn't so clear cut.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Thanks for such an in-depth reply, I genuinely couldn’t argue with a thing you’ve said. Off topic slightly but do you think professional driving policies and defensive driving techniques have made the situation much worse?

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers are more cautious and I know generally I am about approaching a red, others just seem to throw caution to the wind and then get roasted by a manager and get SPADs on their record, which of course is on there with super glue.

For me I try to strike a balance in that if the conditions are good and permit a slightly harder run in, then I'll do it. However we're now entering the time of year where that sort of thing doesn't happen. I've had some nasty experiences and a couple of slides of a mile and now I brake earlier and lighter and whilst that may go against what the book says I find that for me, it works and it's what I feel comfortable with and so far *touch wood* I've had no problems.

The last time I did what the book said, I nearly SPADed, so make of that what you will, so perhaps you can understand why I treat the PDP with a little contempt, most of it is OK, but it does tend to be written in slightly condescending way and treats everyone as if they're newbies off the street, which I guess is understandable to those who wrote it, but it doesn't take into account those of us who have a lot of driving experience and for those of us it can be a little bit insulting.

I work to the conditions that are prevalent at the time, if I know an area is designated a low adhesion risk zone, then I'm really careful, if during the summer we have a long dry spell and then a shower again really careful, because the chances are it will be slippery.

I must be doing things right because I've had no overshoots, slide throughs or TPWS interventions or activations in over 10 years.

 

[Goldfish62]

Personally, I'm far from happy. My local station, Martins Heron, misses out badly, with peak hours services reduced from 4tph to 2tph and the journey time to/from Waterloo increases by a couple of minutes.

 

[Adsy125]

I notice Branksome and Parkstone lose out on the fast Weymouth-Waterloo (well used at both stations) increasing journey times to pretty much everywhere yet the current 9 minute gap between northbound trains remain making the 2tph service about as good as 1tph. As far as I'm concerned no real improvements

Also why does the Weymouth stopper join the Portsmouth stopper instead of the new semi fast? Surely it would provide faster journeys and better connections the Isle of Wight as it goes it Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers are more cautious and I know generally I am about approaching a red, others just seem to throw caution to the wind and then get roasted by a manager and get SPADs on their record, which of course is on there with super glue.

For me I try to strike a balance in that if the conditions are good and permit a slightly harder run in, then I'll do it. However we're now entering the time of year where that sort of thing doesn't happen. I've had some nasty experiences and a couple of slides of a mile and now I brake earlier and lighter and whilst that may go against what the book says I find that for me, it works and it's what I feel comfortable with and so far *touch wood* I've had no problems.

The last time I did what the book said, I nearly SPADed, so make of that what you will, so perhaps you can understand why I treat the PDP with a little contempt, most of it is OK, but it does tend to be written in slightly condescending way and treats everyone as if they're newbies off the street, which I guess is understandable to those who wrote it, but it doesn't take into account those of us who have a lot of driving experience and for those of us it can be a little bit insulting.

I work to the conditions that are prevalent at the time, if I know an area is designated a low adhesion risk zone, then I'm really careful, if during the summer we have a long dry spell and then a shower again really careful, because the chances are it will be slippery.

I must be doing things right because I've had no overshoots, slide throughs or TPWS interventions or activations in over 10 years.

In normal conditions (no slippy rails), if the brake gets put into the full service position as it passes a single yellow, would a typical train stop in time before the next signal (at red)?

 

[HeelBurton]

That's because they've been cunning and removed the padding that currently exists between Guildford & Haslemere and Petersfield & Havant.



You have to remember a true fast service will do the trip from Guildford to Haslemere in approx 14' which isn't bad considering the gradients are against you all the way, you can do the up direction in 13'.



The current timetable allows you between 14-20' to do the piffling little 13 mile journey, that's why I don't do anymore than 45 mph between Guildford & Haslemere with a 1P, you just catch up the preceding service.



So you can immediately see where 6' has gone and you can take out another 3-4' of padding around Havant too.



If you leave Petersfield RT you can shut off at Bolinge Hill and coast all the way to Havant and still be there RT and there's a more than reasonable chance of doing the near impossible & that's going straight into Havant without stopping on HT19.



On the up I can go all the way from Havant to Petersfield with only one touch of the brake and that's to maintain the 40 through Buriton Tunnel and the necessary braking for Petersfield, if I drove it like a 1P service should be, I'd be sitting there at Petersfield a good 4' early and I know that if I chase it from Petersfield to Haslemere I could be sitting at Haslemere long enough to get a coffee and that's 5', if I'm leisurely I shut off at Liphook and just glide in to Haslemere a minute early!



Leaving Haslemere I can shut off at 45 mph and glide all the way to Guildford, only braking for the 60 section through Ashtead/Godalming to Farncombe and even then I can let it keep going with clear aspects and arrive Guildford RT.



If you do a proper fast with existing stops you can do the journey in 1h 25/27, that's still 5' faster.



I'm quite glad to see that other posters have tended to agree with me that the proposed timetable is utter tripe. And if that's what they intend to do then if I want to go to the coast I'll be in the car.

I think I need to do my roads refreshers with you!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HarleyDavidson]

In normal conditions (no slippy rails), if the brake gets put into the full service position as it passes a single yellow, would a typical train stop in time before the next signal (at red)?

I wouldn't drive like that, never have. I have too many personal rules that prevent it.

When I was learning, I had a narrow squeak with a red and the driver who's train it was gave me such a bo**ocking for it and he made me sit there and think about my actions and to this day that has stayed in my memory and I have always treated red as SACRED!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Anyway going back to the timetable, some reasonable ideas, but just rubbish implementation.

Back to the drawing board/square one, me thinks.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The one thing that really puzzles me is this odd idea of providing Godalming with 4 tph. Why?

It has the smallest carpark in the area, no more than 25 cars if that and if they bring 4 tph to it, that will only make traffic in Godalming even more horrendous than it already is because you'll get people parking illegally in the narrow streets.

Also Worplesdon on a Sunday? Why, you hardly get anyone use it outside of the peak period SX and on a Saturday very little use at all and it's no use for walkers as its on a narrow country lane which regularly gets flooded in bad weather and with no footpaths or lighting either! Bizarre idea.

 

[pompeyfan]

In normal conditions (no slippy rails), if the brake gets put into the full service position as it passes a single yellow, would a typical train stop in time before the next signal (at red)?

To be fair as well there’s such a broad mix of linespeed to signal spacing it’s impossible to answer. I can think of many signals where 70/linespeed on a single yellow is comfortable, but there’s also the opposite, in some areas on the network a 12 car train would occupy 3 signal sections.

 

[Helvellyn]

Seems there will be a diesel unit overnighting at Waterloo with a new early departure for Exeter at 06:05 (arr 09:44).

However, I don't think Hook and Winchfield commuters will be too happy. Seems they are going to have a half hour service in the a.m. peak to Waterloo compared to the four per hour between 06:54 and 08:54. Fleet and Farnborough on the other hand seem to be getting a better service. Almost feels like they are keen to fill those multi-storey car parks at Basingstoke, Fleet and Farnborough. XD

 

[Helvellyn]

Seems there will be a diesel unit overnighting at Waterloo with a new early departure for Exeter at 06:05 (arr 09:44).

However, I don't think Hook and Winchfield commuters will be too happy. Seems they are going to have a half hour service in the a.m. peak to Waterloo compared to the four per hour between 06:54 and 08:54. Fleet and Farnborough on the other hand seem to be getting a better service. Almost feels like they are keen to fill those multi-storey car parks at Basingstoke, Fleet and Farnborough.

 

[DelW]

The one thing that really puzzles me is this odd idea of providing Godalming with 4 tph. Why?

It has the smallest carpark in the area, no more than 25 cars if that and if they bring 4 tph to it, that will only make traffic in Godalming even more horrendous than it already is because you'll get people parking illegally in the narrow streets.

Godalming has a larger population than either Haslemere or Petersfield, which have had 4tph for many years.

There are two car parks, with capacity for more than 25 cars though I haven't counted accurately. But very few Godalming passengers drive to the station and park There are large numbers who live within walking distance - drive along the A3100 at 06:35 as I do and you'll see numbers of people walking toward the station. A lot of the rest are dropped off in the morning and picked up in the evening - 4tph should reduce congestion outside the station by spreading these between more trains.

 

[DelW]

Any coach/bus company could/will be laughing all the way to the bank as they'll be using the A3 and with a fast coach service getting all the way down to the Harbour quicker than the train!

A few years ago First introduced Greyhound branded coaches between London and Portsmouth, but the service was quickly scaled back then stopped altogether. National Express run roughly one coach per hour through the day, with a very limited evening service, taking between 1hr50 and 2hr35 depending on time of day. At a maximum of around 50 passengers per coach that's a tiny fraction of what SWR carry.

I agree that for many journeys not involving London, a car offers advantages, but for many people it's not an option, for a whole range of reasons.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well I will be objecting to the 1 call on there, 4 is too many, it doesn't warrant it during the day and all it does in the evening is draw the low life out who cause trouble (throwing stones, doing dope, passcoms, running across the track etc.)