New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[pompeyfan]

It's in the calling pattern tables in the accompanying spreadsheet I have linked to previously, in the notes below the servcie pattern diagrams.

If you go back here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3070743&postcount=2094 I mentioned it a few posts later...

Would appear not to be loading correctly on my device which makes trying to read and understand it difficult. Thanks for re-linking though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would appear not to be loading correctly on my device which makes trying to read and understand it difficult. Thanks for re-linking though.

I noticed that a while ago trying to read the spreadsheet on an an iPad. The symbols didn't quite line up properly vertically. However many of the notes are fairly self explanatory anyway.

 

[SWT_USER]

Delays incoming again shortly. A dozy signaller has sent the 17.05 Waterloo to Farnham (via Richmond) down the main fast from Waterloo. Stopped at Vauxhall and now been sat by the old Eurostar flyover for 5 minutes. There must be quite a queue forming behind.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Stagecoach also bid on the basis of dumping the 455s and 456s, but not the 458s or 707s.

You would have also seen similar timetable proposals as the frequencies and maximum journey times were in the tender specification.

And how do you know this given Stagecoach’s bid was confidential and obviously not made public due to them losing? Surely the Stagecoach wouldn’t have spent money retractioning the 455s if they were planning on getting rid of them.

 

[TEW]

And how do you know this given Stagecoach’s bid was confidential and obviously not made public due to them losing? Surely the Stagecoach wouldn’t have spent money retractioning the 455s if they were planning on getting rid of them.

The ITT ruled out the use of 455s in the new franchise by setting new targets for dwell times at stations that the 455s were unable to meet. Any bid proposing retention of 455s would not have been compliant.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Delays incoming again shortly. A dozy signaller has sent the 17.05 Waterloo to Farnham (via Richmond) down the main fast from Waterloo. Stopped at Vauxhall and now been sat by the old Eurostar flyover for 5 minutes. There must be quite a queue forming behind.

Not dozy. It's what happens when you have to deal with not only route setting, but other issues as well.

Everyone makes the odd error, at least the driver being "on the ball" didn't accept it.

 

[moley]

So we'll get yet another round of 'surprise surprise' from BBC South and local media outlets, as all the stuff that was in the franchise consultation and then the ITT gets re-hashed, and everyone pretends that the service spec published with the ITT didn't ever really happen.

As we've discussed on here before, removal of stops in long distance trains was shown in the ITT, as was reduction to one Waterloo - Weymouth through train per hour. It shouldn't be news at this stage, but I bet it will be treated as such.

I don't understand why we have to have a franchise consultation, then publish an ITT, then bid against that ITT, then incoming franchisee sends in a track access application to NR/ORR that reflects the winning bid. Then we have another public consultation? It's little wonder nothing ever happens on time...

Isn't this the actual timetable consultation. i.e. here is the actual draft 2018 timetable, tell us what you (dis)like about it. So not just train patterns and suggestions that certain routes could have calls dropped but actual the 17:00 to XX calls at A, B, C with accompanying times and train lengths)

 

[Bookd]

Not dozy. It's what happens when you have to deal with not only route setting, but other issues as well.

Everyone makes the odd error, at least the driver being "on the ball" didn't accept it.

Nevertheless an interesting problem - does anyone know how it was resolved?

 

[pompeyfan]

Isn't this the actual timetable consultation. i.e. here is the actual draft 2018 timetable, tell us what you (dis)like about it. So not just train patterns and suggestions that certain routes could have calls dropped but actual the 17:00 to XX calls at A, B, C with accompanying times and train lengths)

I’m slightly excited to see what it says, I won’t be doing in-depth analysis, even though I’m sure many will, just interested to see suggested calling patterns for the standard and peak time timetables.

 

[moley]

I’m slightly excited to see what it says, I won’t be doing in-depth analysis, even though I’m sure many will, just interested to see suggested calling patterns for the standard and peak time timetables.

I'm generally interested to see how they fit the to extra Pompey direct peak train in. If we really do get an hour with 1 slow, 2 semi-fast, 2 fast and 1 super-fast service, i'm guessing the service pattern will be really messy!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Nevertheless an interesting problem - does anyone know how it was resolved?

Route reset (signal replaced), correct route set (signal cleared).

I've had it a few times and any driver worth their salt should be able to gain a few mins back.

 

[Malcolmffc]

The ITT ruled out the use of 455s in the new franchise by setting new targets for dwell times at stations that the 455s were unable to meet. Any bid proposing retention of 455s would not have been compliant.

Well Roger Ford has speculated that Stagecoach didn’t realise that. All their previous actions imply they were planning to keep the 455s

 

[Malcolmffc]

The ITT ruled out the use of 455s in the new franchise by setting new targets for dwell times at stations that the 455s were unable to meet. Any bid proposing retention of 455s would not have been compliant.

Well perhaps Stagecoach didn’t realise that. All their previous actions imply they were planning to keep the 455s

 

[Emblematic]

Well perhaps Stagecoach didn’t realise that. All their previous actions imply they were planning to keep the 455s

DfT covered 1/3 of the cost of retractioning, Porterbrook the rest, so you can't infer anything about Stagecoaches plans from this.

 

[TEW]

Well perhaps Stagecoach didn’t realise that. All their previous actions imply they were planning to keep the 455s

Before the new franchise ITT was issued, yes. All the rumours suggest that Stagecoach planned on a further order of 707s to replace 455s and 456s. The inevitable demise of the 455s and 456s was the subject of discussion on here around the time ITT came out. It seems exceptionally unlikely that Stagecoach would not have realised their replacement was in effect mandated.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

It is still unclear what the new company means for frontline staff. 18 month wait for a uniform?!? Even with a consultation period that is a long time bearing in mind the franchise is only 7 years.
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I do apologise if this has been mentioned but I have just seen an SWR tie. I imagine a SWR shirt can't be too far away.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Before the new franchise ITT was issued, yes. All the rumours suggest that Stagecoach planned on a further order of 707s to replace 455s and 456s. The inevitable demise of the 455s and 456s was the subject of discussion on here around the time ITT came out. It seems exceptionally unlikely that Stagecoach would not have realised their replacement was in effect mandated.

Had Stagecoach had won the franchise, would they possibly have looked at the possibility of getting some 350s from LM (possibly the ones that were originally going to be 450s anyway)?

 

[Monty]

Had Stagecoach had won the franchise, would they possibly have looked at the possibility of getting some 350s from LM (possibly the ones that were originally going to be 450s anyway)?

I'm not sure it was known that the 350s would be spare when the ITT was first issued. We should find out soon enough, afaik the loosing bidders still have to release details of their bid at some point.

 

[Goldfish62]

And how do you know this given Stagecoach’s bid was confidential and obviously not made public due to them losing? Surely the Stagecoach wouldn’t have spent money retractioning the 455s if they were planning on getting rid of them.

Because a Stagecoach source was quoted in Modern Railways. In any case, ever since the ITT was published it had been suggested that bidders would need to dispense of the 455s to comply with station dwell times and the requirement to fit aircon.

Retractioning was related to the introduction of the 707s and has nothing to do with the franchise specification.

 

[Carlisle]

Retractioning was related to the introduction of the 707s and has nothing to do with the franchise specification.

Yes I’m sure that’s technically true, but if they all end up scrapped it’ll do nothing whatsoever to dispel that age old argument that at times railways are great at rather needlessly wasting money.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure it was known that the 350s would be spare when the ITT was first issued. We should find out soon enough, afaik the loosing bidders still have to release details of their bid at some point.

I don't think they have to announce anything. Info might be drip fed to the rail media after a while, but I don't ever recall a formal annoucement of the full details of a losing bid.

 

[shade2595]

One last hurrah for South West Trains - this plaque has appeared at Surbiton over the past few days, a Fair while after SWT lost the franchise!

 

[swt_passenger]

One last hurrah for South West Trains - this plaque has appeared at Surbiton over the past few days, a Fair while after SWT lost the franchise!

"Last time it served customers on 23 March 2016"

Ouch... :roll:

 

[MartinB1]

I do apologise if this has been mentioned but I have just seen an SWR tie. I imagine a SWR shirt can't be too far away.

Gosh. Are you sure it wasn't just a SWR pin badge attached to the tie,?

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[infobleep]

More problems tonight due to swans on the line around Hilsea. A friend commented that three trains were cancelled that passengers might use and then the 17.45 turned up with only 5 coaches.

I don't know if that was 3 Portsmouth Direct line trains but at her ran general fast line trains but I suspect it was.

 

[johnnychips]

More problems tonight due to swans on the line around Hilsea.

Major cygnet failure in the area...I'll get me coat.

 

[pompeyfan]

More problems tonight due to swans on the line around Hilsea. A friend commented that three trains were cancelled that passengers might use and then the 17.45 turned up with only 5 coaches.

I don't know if that was 3 Portsmouth Direct line trains but at her ran general fast line trains but I suspect it was.

It’s actually 2 separate incidents that occurred at the same time at the same location. At one stage 5 signals in the area were being talked past, there was also 3 swans on the tracks, 2 were caught between the 3rd and running rail so a switch off was requested to remove them safely.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Major cygnet failure in the area...I'll get me coat.

Anymore like that and you'll be appearing before the beak!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Major cygnet failure in the area...I'll get me coat.

Have you been swanning it again?

 

[CC 72100]

More problems tonight due to swans on the line around Hilsea..

GWR's Great - Malvern to Brighton was delayed by cows on the line after Bath Spa, and then the swans on the line in Portcreek Junction area.

Chances of the same train being delayed twice by separate but similar incidents?