Bermondsey dive under open

[ijmad]

Other than services routed via South Bermondsey, signallers seem to have been a little more flexible in the last few weeks. A handful of drivers also still can't take the route due to one or two outstanding needs for route knowledge briefings.

I suppose they have until next May before there'll be 14 or 16 tph of Thameslink traffic each way to cross (just 4tph in January). I guess then the diveunder will be compulsory and necessary!

And yes of course South Bermondsey... I meant to be more specific but I'm not sure how best to refer to the slow lines? Caterham Line or just BML slow lines or something else?

 

[Thebaz]

I was on the 1745 to East Grinstead yesterday and that went on the slow lines until New Cross gate.

Anyone know when the flyover will come into service? I see track has been laid but no juice rail as yet.

 

[takno]

I was on the 1745 to East Grinstead yesterday and that went on the slow lines until New Cross gate.

Anyone know when the flyover will come into service? I see track has been laid but no juice rail as yet.

The next stage is to switch the Charing Cross lines to run under the flyover, which is happening over the summer I think. I don't think the flyover comes into service until the whole station is complete, since there isn't anywhere for the trains to go until then.

 

[IKB]

How many Southern services per day on the route aren't using the diveunder? I was on one last week, outside of the peak, that started at London Bridge platform 15 and took the old route. Is this a regular thing outside the peaks or was this a one-off?

Utilising both routes allows simultaneous departures from London Bridge if trains are running late - e.g. a stopper via New Cross Gate can use the dive under and a fast service can be routed via South Bermondsey junction onto the fast line without coming into conflict. Depends what else is happening. The vast majority are going through the dive under.

 

[ijmad]

The next stage is to switch the Charing Cross lines to run under the flyover, which is happening over the summer I think. I don't think the flyover comes into service until the whole station is complete, since there isn't anywhere for the trains to go until then.

Yep, the flyover routes in to Platform 4 & 5 which open on 2nd January (4pth both ways). However even then, only trains going to the Thameslink core will use the flyover, trains that terminate start at London Bridge will use the diveunder before switching over to the fast lines, this is a non-conflicting move too in the sense it doesn't cross any paths in the other direction.

Edit: change terminated to start, oops

 

[carriageline]

August this year will see the Charing X lines get commissioned through the BDU!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thebaz]

Yep, the flyover routes in to Platform 4 & 5 which open on 2nd January (4pth both ways). However even then, only trains going to the Thameslink core will use the flyover, trains that terminate at London Bridge will use the diveunder before switching over to the fast lines, this is a non-conflicting move too in the sense it doesn't cross any paths in the other direction.

Ah, so the dive-under is bi-directional?

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk

 

[Sunset route]

Ah, so the dive-under is bi-directional?

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk

From the diagrams I've got none of the lines over the diveunder (Thameslink) are bi-directional and Of The four under it only one is bi-derctional. So looking south to north and left to right, there is the Down Sussex slow, the Up Charing Cross, Down Charing Cross and Somrthing Reversible (I can't quite make out the text).

 

[Bald Rick]

From the diagrams I've got none of the lines over the diveunder (Thameslink) are bi-directional and Of The four under it only one is bi-derctional. So looking south to north and left to right, there is the Down Sussex slow, the Up Charing Cross, Down Charing Cross and Somrthing Reversible (I can't quite mark out the text).

Southwark.

 

[FOH]

That surely is wrong. I'd have thought trains towards London Bridge would behave the same as now.

 

[ijmad]

That surely is wrong. I'd have thought trains towards London Bridge would behave the same as now.

Yes I miswrote that.

Trains that START at London Bridge to the fast lines....

Blame bleary eyes.

 

[Sunset route]

Southwark.

Cheers

 

[absolutelymilk]

I'm looking to update the Wikipedia article which currently just says the second track will open in 2018, does someone have a source that I can add saying it will open in Jan 2018 (if that still is the planned opening date?)

 

[ijmad]

I'm looking to update the Wikipedia article which currently just says the second track will open in 2018, does someone have a source that I can add saying it will open in Jan 2018 (if that still is the planned opening date?)

Sounds wrong, the August blockade will see the Charing Cross lines rerouted under the diveunder bringing 2 more tracks in to use (total of 3), and also London Bridge Platform 6.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm looking to update the Wikipedia article which currently just says the second track will open in 2018, does someone have a source that I can add saying it will open in Jan 2018 (if that still is the planned opening date?)

What do they mean by "2nd track"? There are four tracks through the diveunder. The up and down Charing Cross lines are supposed to open this summer. As mentioned earlier in the thread although there is a published plan some milestones have been achieved slightly ahead of time...

 

[absolutelymilk]

Sorry, it says the work will be completed in 2018, I just assumed it was only two tracks!

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry, it says the work will be completed in 2018, I just assumed it was only two tracks!

From South to North the four dive under tracks are:
The Down Sussex Slow which was opened for normal traffic last December.
The Up and Down Charing Cross which are opening August this year for normal use by Southeastern from September.
The fourth track is the Southwark reversible, and that opens in time for Jan 2018. This latter track is the one that allows for non-conflicting up direction Thameslink trains coming from the New Cross area.

 

[absolutelymilk]

From South to North the four dive under tracks are:
The Down Sussex Slow which was opened for normal traffic last December.
The Up and Down Charing Cross which are opening August this year for normal use by Southeastern from September.
The fourth track is the Southwark reversible, and that opens in time for Jan 2018. This latter track is the one that allows for non-conflicting up direction Thameslink trains coming from the New Cross area.

Brilliant, thanks for this info! Do you have a link to a document which states this anywhere? I looked for one earlier in the thread but couldn't find anything.

 

[ijmad]

Brilliant, thanks for this info! Do you have a link to a document which states this anywhere? I looked for one earlier in the thread but couldn't find anything.

The old Infrarail presentation shows the diveunder lines for Charing Cross opening on Page 90/91 (between Stage 3A Part 2 and Part 3). The dates have shifted slightly vs this document, but could still be a good source for Wikipedia, as the time is still shown as on the edge of "Q3" and "Q4".

 

[swt_passenger]

Brilliant, thanks for this info! Do you have a link to a document which states this anywhere? I looked for one earlier in the thread but couldn't find anything.

Most assumptions come from the presentation I linked to in post#93. Stage 3A Parts 1 2, 3, 4, and comparison with the year and quarters shown underneath those drawings. Stage 3A Part 2 is the current position, following the Cannon St lines back in P1 and P2.

http://www.infrarail.com/_downloads/presentations/IF14_Thameslink.pdf

But as I say that hasn't been regularly updated, and isn't necessarily quotable, at least as far as citing on a wiki page. It's an area where I reckon wiki can get too bogged down in detail. Perhaps easier to wait until January and just describe what exists in the finished infrastructure?

Most dates in this thread have been updated by insiders such as BaldRick...

 

[collexions]

Specifically re: Bermondsey Diveunder...

From Thameslink Programme KO2 N421 Railway Systems - Construction & Staging Strategy
N421-JAC-STR-EG-000002 v3.5 (11/2016)

Aug B/H 2017 Commissioning Stage: HL15/EA27
Following this change the Charing Cross services will use lines 6, 7 and 8 as far as Spa Road, and then the Up and Down Kent Fast lines via the Bermondsey Dive Under to New Cross. The Southwark Reversible Line will remain out of use for the time being.

Xmas/NY 2017 Commissioning Stage: HL17/EA32
The installation of the connections from lines 4 and 5 (the Down Sussex Fast
and Up Sussex Fast lines) over the top of the Bermondsey Dive Under to tie in with the existing layout at Bricklayers Arms will have been completed in early 2017 as EA32A.

 

[swt_passenger]

A Network Rail video has appeared, including a test train cab view of the dive under:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqO2zBHTw5M

 

[ijmad]

A Network Rail video has appeared, including a test train cab view of the dive under:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqO2zBHTw5M

Decent gradient down to the diveunder isn't it! Wonder if a 4 car networker can drag a failed unit through it?

 

[theageofthetra]

Decent gradient down to the diveunder isn't it! Wonder if a 4 car networker can drag a failed unit through it?

Will be interesting with the poor railhead conditions caused by drizzle and oil residue from the recycling incinerator next door.

 

[absolutelymilk]

When will the first passenger trains run over the newly opened tracks?

 

[swt_passenger]

When will the first passenger trains run over the newly opened tracks?

Yesterday, all day?

That was always as planned and announced.

 

[swt_passenger]

Decent gradient down to the diveunder isn't it! Wonder if a 4 car networker can drag a failed unit through it?

I think it's very exaggerated on the video. It looks quite normal from the side on long shots. Also, as the Thameslink flyover rises slightly higher than normal viaduct level the dive under isn't actually as 'deep' as it might have been.

 

[IanKR]

Travelled it today on the 2C08 DFD-CHX. Exciting!

 

[carriageline]

Dive under is quite steep. There's specific instructions for freight/engineering trains operating through it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dr_Paul]

Dive under is quite steep. There's specific instructions for freight/engineering trains operating through it.

That's what struck me when I travelled through the area a few weeks back: the gradients are pretty steep. Does anyone know what the various gradients are?