ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[43025 Exeter]

Are the buffet and TGS for conversions or anything else?

 

[43096]

Nope, Donny.

Presumably for refurb and conversion. So Clansman's gen is only half right. The half set not being refurbed is for training.

 

[380101]

So how will the shortfall be covered until the 800's finally enter service?

That's up to the DfT/GWR to deal with. Transport Scotland/Abellio Scotrail signed a deal with Angel Trains for the HSTs and the contract has to be honoured regardless of the mess the electrification programme is in due to NR/DfT. The DfT could not intervene or delay the HST transfer as they had no involvement in it due to the Scotrail franchise being devolved to the Scottish government. All HSTs due to Scotrail will come on time as planned unless there is a major technical problem along the way.

 

[43096]

Are the buffet and TGS for conversions or anything else?

ScotRail sets being converted from TS and TF vehicles. Buffets, TGSs, TCs and some TSs not being converted - as you would expect when 8 car sets become 4s and 5s.

 

[CosherB]

Presumably for refurb and conversion. So Clansman's gen is only half right. The half set not being refurbed is for training.

Indeed ... not a coincidence that they were dropped off where Wabtec are based!

 

[158722]

ScotRail sets being converted from TS and TF vehicles. Buffets, TGSs, TCs and some TSs not being converted - as you would expect when 8 car sets become 4s and 5s.

From photos I've seen, I think TSD 42207, TS 42047, TGS 44015 & TRFB 40727 moved with 43021/132, so this would leave TF 41032, TS 42045, 42046 & 42561 at Doncaster. I wouldn't say that with 100% conviction though...

 

[Clarence Yard]

So how will the shortfall be covered until the 800's finally enter service?

Jacking the availability and Turbo subbing on LTV diagrams. Fortunately the second set that was due to go back in August didn't thanks to the Wabtec delays. The handback profile has now been adjusted to send one away in January, when none were due to go. This won't affect the Wabtec output schedule.

The next 2 sets are to go off lease by 20th October, 4 days after 2 HST diagrams are to be replaced by the first 2 x 10 car IET diagrams. Then, after some more IET diagrams are introduced, it will be another 2 sets returned by 30th November and a further 2 sets by 31st December.

 

[43096]

Jacking the availability and Turbo subbing on LTV diagrams. Fortunately the second set that was due to go back in August didn't thanks to the Wabtec delays. The handback profile has now been adjusted to send one away in January, when none were due to go. This won't affect the Wabtec output schedule.



The next 2 sets are to go off lease by 20th October, 4 days after 2 HST diagrams are to be replaced by the first 2 x 10 car IET diagrams. Then, after some more IET diagrams are introduced, it will be another 2 sets returned by 30th November and a further 2 sets by 31st December.

That and changing the timetable to free up some Turbo diagrams by cutting some of the LTV stoppers back to Maidenhead and using more 387s. If it wasn't for Bombardier being ahead with deliveries then they'd be knackered.

Even so, that's only a short term fix. Basically IEP has to work out of the box, or GWR are completely screwed, and there are plenty of examples of new trains that haven't coped well with first contact with the normals. Cross your fingers.....

 

[455driver]

From photos I've seen, I think TSD 42207, TS 42047, TGS 44015 & TRFB 40727 moved with 43021/132, so this would leave TF 41032, TS 42045, 42046 & 42561 at Doncaster. I wouldn't say that with 100% conviction though...

40727 is still with GWR formed in LA01, the Buffet sent off lease has 4 large windows so is either a 402xx or a 408xx series Buffet.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

That and changing the timetable to free up some Turbo diagrams by cutting some of the LTV stoppers back to Maidenhead and using more 387s. If it wasn't for Bombardier being ahead with deliveries then they'd be knackered.

Even so, that's only a short term fix. Basically IEP has to work out of the box, or GWR are completely screwed, and there are plenty of examples of new trains that haven't coped well with first contact with the normals. Cross your fingers.....

I believe Hitachi's 395s were almost faultless on introduction. They have also been reliable enough for the HS1 domestic network to be expanded from that originally planned with the fleet order extended by just one unit. If the IEP types are as good then there is nothing to worry about...

 

[dave87016]

Apologies if it's already been posted but just in case it hasn't I received the list of Powercars that are going to Scotrail the list is in order I was given it considering the top two in the list are actually the first two to go off lease I don't know if the rest are in order in which they go off lease and to Scotrail

43132
43021
43148
43033
43036
43134
43143
43146
43037
43126
43163
43135
43179
43012
43169
43183
43168
43032
43140
43149
43145
43127
43003
43142
43031
43152
43141
43026
43128
43125
43151
43035
43182
43138
43164
43150
43139
43130
43133
43136
43129
43028
43175
43124
43176
43177
43147
43181
43137
43131
43015
43030
43144
43034

 

[adrock1976]

There appears to be over half of the powercars that are allocated to Landore depot, Swansea that will be leaving.

I believed a while ago that none would be transferred from Landore, as they have different alternators combined with Landore depot staff being the only experts in how to repair and maintain those powercars.

 

[jamieintercity]

Noticed on RTT that on Saturday 16th, 23rd and 30th of September they are 2Z90-2Z95 paths running between Aberdeen and dundee, timed to be a HST

Here is one example: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88387/2017/09/16/advanced

 

[43096]

There appears to be over half of the powercars that are allocated to Landore depot, Swansea that will be leaving.

I believed a while ago that none would be transferred from Landore, as they have different alternators combined with Landore depot staff being the only experts in how to repair and maintain those powercars.

:roll::roll::roll:

It is most amusing seeing all the people appear who apparently know about HST power cars now that the fleet is being run down...

All HST power cars have the same basic design of alternator. I presume you are referring to the fact that 43124-152 have GEC traction motors (rather than Brush motors fitted to the rest of the fleet).

 

[adrock1976]

:roll::roll::roll:

It is most amusing seeing all the people appear who apparently know about HST power cars now that the fleet is being run down...

All HST power cars have the same basic design of alternator. I presume you are referring to the fact that 43124-152 have GEC traction motors (rather than Brush motors fitted to the rest of the fleet).

I have never claimed to know anything about powercars so it would be appreciated if you retract that comment.

It was the motors that I got mixed up with - many thanks for clarifying.

I was aware that one of the components was slightly different for the ones mentioned that are based at Landore - the info I remember reading in one of the threads in this section.

 

[43096]

I have never claimed to know anything about powercars so it would be appreciated if you retract that comment.

It was the motors that I got mixed up with - many thanks for clarifying.

I was aware that one of the components was slightly different for the ones mentioned that are based at Landore - the info I remember reading in one of the threads in this section.

So why post that they have different alternators as if it was fact, then? If you're not sure then say so!

As an aside the alternators for those power cars with MTU engines are technically type BA1001C, as opposed to the BA1001B as built. They were modified slightly when they were matched with the MTU engines.

 

[Clansman]

Noticed on RTT that on Saturday 16th, 23rd and 30th of September they are 2Z90-2Z95 paths running between Aberdeen and dundee, timed to be a HST

Here is one example: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88387/2017/09/16/advanced

It's driver training in preparation for the HSTs. Testing between Dundee-Aberdeen from September, and Dundee-Edinburgh from January. First completed set due in February, with passenger services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen commencing in May.

 

[gsnedders]

It's driver training in preparation for the HSTs. Testing between Dundee-Aberdeen from September, and Dundee-Edinburgh from January. First completed set due in February, with passenger services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen commencing in May.

Should we be reading anything into it being a 2 headcode and a "Unadvertised Ordinary Passenger"? Will passengers be able to board it? From memory most other test runs I'm aware of have run as ECS with a 5 headcode.

 

[Clansman]

Falkirk Grahamston has been included in a draft map of the core timetabled routes. Doesn't appear to be highlighted as a diversionary route, as the Fife Circle nor Cumbernauld have been highlighted in the same way.

Should we be reading anything into it being a 2 headcode and a "Unadvertised Ordinary Passenger"? Will passengers be able to board it? From memory most other test runs I'm aware of have run as ECS with a 5 headcode.

No idea why it's (un)advertised as a passenger service, my only guess would be that it's clearly replicating a passenger service as part of the training?

No chance passengers will be able to board it.

 

[47271]

Falkirk Grahamston has been included in a draft map of the core timetabled routes.

I suppose that there's no reason why some Edinburgh-Inverness services shouldn't go round this way if there's capacity to fit them in.

 

[Clansman]

I suppose that there's no reason why some Edinburgh-Inverness services shouldn't go round this way if there's capacity to fit them in.

It would certainly shave minutes as opposed to going via Fife.

Given capacity, I'm surprised they'd be able to fit it in - which is also a risky punt to take for Inverness services especially.

 

[jopsuk]

I suppose that there's no reason why some Edinburgh-Inverness services shouldn't go round this way if there's capacity to fit them in.

Except if they're the current services then you cut Fife-Perth (and the Highlands) capacity

 

[Clansman]

Except if they're the current services then you cut Fife-Perth (and the Highlands) capacity

Fife was always going to get the axe from Inverness services anyway, seeing as the HSTs are running limited stop services throughout Scotland.

 

[47271]

As I understand it the only Fife call for the HSTs will be Kirkcaldy.

And, speaking as a Perth and HML passenger, I'd quite like that stop to be cut from the 1741 Edinburgh-Inverness or its new world equivalent...

 

[Carntyne]

Should we be reading anything into it being a 2 headcode and a "Unadvertised Ordinary Passenger"? Will passengers be able to board it? From memory most other test runs I'm aware of have run as ECS with a 5 headcode.

They'll be in as a Class 2 if they're stopping at stations along the route. Passengers won't be able to board.

 

[gsnedders]

As I understand it the only Fife call for the HSTs will be Kirkcaldy.

For the HSTs from Inverness, you mean? (For the HSTs from Aberdeen, that'd be a big change in a fast services which (almost all) currently run non-stop Leuchars–Haymarket.)

 

[XC90]

EDB - ABD via Fife

EDB - INV mostly via Stirling

Could that be the reason?

 

[Defiance149]

From photos I've seen, I think TSD 42207, TS 42047, TGS 44015 & TRFB 40727 moved with 43021/132, so this would leave TF 41032, TS 42045, 42046 & 42561 at Doncaster. I wouldn't say that with 100% conviction though...

The buffet was 40207, rest is correct.

 

[47271]

For the HSTs from Inverness, you mean? (For the HSTs from Aberdeen, that'd be a big change in a fast services which (almost all) currently run non-stop Leuchars–Haymarket.)

Sorry, yes, I mean Inverness, which is my main focus, I don't know what's planned for the Aberdeen trains.

I need to stop thinking about myself quite so much!

 

[Highland37]

What is GWR going to do about losing trains where the new ones are not in service yet?