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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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Northhighland

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Haven't we had this same bellyache on north infrastructure from this same poster in the past?

So we're getting HSTs on the HML and Aberdeen-Inverness.

Aberdeen-Inverurie is getting doubled and Kintore and Dalcross stations are about to be reopened.

The A9 and A96 are being dualled.

Can we have the poster's positive, specific suggestions as to how they may realistically improve on these plans?

These plans are all fine have no issue with them. When exactly will the dualing of the A9 and A96 be complete? A9 at best will be 2025, A96 will be at best 2030. Not exactly seeing the finish line are we?

North of Inverness? No plans. Berriedale braes a very dangerous piece of road, requires £7m to fix worst part date still uncertain. A82? nothing planned. A few pound could offer some minor improvements to these routes, £20-30m would make a huge difference, or if put another way less than 5% of the EGIP programme or 25% of what was spent on the M77 extension.

Simply put these projects need accelerated. To wait another 7 or more years for the A9, or 13 or more years for the A96 is simply too long. These are serious constraints on life in the North. Constrain economic growth potential and represent a further disadvantage to the people who live here.
 
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jingsmonty

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Curious as to how you think HST's are going to improve journey times. They can't run at SP speeds so are actually running at a lower top speed than current in many places. OK acceleration might be slightly better than a 170 but am struggling to see where the big gains will come from.

Fair point & one I've made myself on this forum before - acceleration will be VASTLY. Improved though (170s usually can do about 55/60mph Inverness to Moy (on a mainly 80 mph line), HST should be able to do line speed or thereabouts...and that's not even mentioning the climb up to Drumochter from Blair Atholl!

Wouldn't be that suprised if there is a local instruction re the 'sp' speed boards
 
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MCR247

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The pitch must be different then...if thats what we end up with, that eould be liveable with...not convinced they are the same grammer seats on Scotrail 158s/GW HSTss



Different seat but still made by Grammer
 

380101

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100mph max North of Edinburgh & Glasgow isn't it?

The main area for potential improvement to 125mph operations would probably be from Larbert to Perth.

There will be no increase above 100mph for the Scotrail HSTs as the Scotrail Safety case for using them is based on 100mph max. speed. Had another look through the HST thread on our internal social media site.
 

Altnabreac

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These plans are all fine have no issue with them. When exactly will the dualing of the A9 and A96 be complete? A9 at best will be 2025, A96 will be at best 2030. Not exactly seeing the finish line are we?

North of Inverness? No plans. Berriedale braes a very dangerous piece of road, requires £7m to fix worst part date still uncertain. A82? nothing planned. A few pound could offer some minor improvements to these routes, £20-30m would make a huge difference, or if put another way less than 5% of the EGIP programme or 25% of what was spent on the M77 extension.

Simply put these projects need accelerated. To wait another 7 or more years for the A9, or 13 or more years for the A96 is simply too long. These are serious constraints on life in the North. Constrain economic growth potential and represent a further disadvantage to the people who live here.

This is off topic but seriously you need to stop moaning.

The A9 is getting upgraded at a cost of £2.5Bn. Yes it's going to take 7 years to do it all because otherwise there would be roadworks all the way up which would be terrible for the Highland economy. It has to be phased.

Berriedale Braes the delay has been due to objections by a local landowner leading to a public enquiry. It is going ahead though.

A82 the Tarbert - Inverarnan scheme is being designed and is going to cost upwards of £200m, not small change. There have been other improvements on the A82 recently, Crianlarich bypass and the Glencoe bridges.

A96 will not be finished until 2030 but the Inverness - Nairn scheme is going ahead early, including a Nairn bypass.

Aberdeen Bypass and Balmedie - Tipperty are about to.be finished, Laurencekirk junction is planned too.

There really isn't a shortage of road investment in the north of Scotland. Per capita it is getting way more than it's fair share. I personally think that's a good thing to improve connectivity for all but the last thing anyone up north should be doing is moaning about a lack of investment.
 

DuncanS

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Anyway - signs/posters/whatever now appearing at stations highlighting the forthcoming arrival of the HST alongside the other improvements between now and 2020.
 

Northhighland

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This is off topic but seriously you need to stop moaning.

The A9 is getting upgraded at a cost of £2.5Bn. Yes it's going to take 7 years to do it all because otherwise there would be roadworks all the way up which would be terrible for the Highland economy. It has to be phased.

Berriedale Braes the delay has been due to objections by a local landowner leading to a public enquiry. It is going ahead though.

A82 the Tarbert - Inverarnan scheme is being designed and is going to cost upwards of £200m, not small change. There have been other improvements on the A82 recently, Crianlarich bypass and the Glencoe bridges.

A96 will not be finished until 2030 but the Inverness - Nairn scheme is going ahead early, including a Nairn bypass.

Aberdeen Bypass and Balmedie - Tipperty are about to.be finished, Laurencekirk junction is planned too.

There really isn't a shortage of road investment in the north of Scotland. Per capita it is getting way more than it's fair share. I personally think that's a good thing to improve connectivity for all but the last thing anyone up north should be doing is moaning about a lack of investment.

My point is this is all jam tomorrow, the planning of the A9 upgrade has taken 10 years, the timetable is still not set, contracts are not awarded. As to the phasing it could be done a lot quicker than it is by using alternative contracting methods. If you consider things, we are about to get 8 miles opened soon, that has taken two years. At that speed 2050 is more realistic. Funding is not in place. Commitments have been made, but that has been done before.

I use the A9 from Wick to Inverness twice a week for the last 10 years. 1 piece of road improvement of note at Helmsdale over that period. Generally the road is deteriorating at an alarming pace. Potholes all over it, drainage not maintained, it is the poorest condition it has ever been in. Berriedale Braes serious issues taking for ever to sort. hardly dynamic.

As to more than our fair share, depends on what period you average it out over. The further you are from the urban centres the more important transport links are. Every day you spent 30 mins trying to get through Elgin,the promise of jam tomorrow rings rather hollow.
 

CosherB

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I use the A9 from Wick to Inverness twice a week for the last 10 years. 1 piece of road improvement of note at Helmsdale over that period. Generally the road is deteriorating at an alarming pace. Potholes all over it, drainage not maintained, it is the poorest condition it has ever been in. Berriedale Braes serious issues taking for ever to sort. hardly dynamic.

What makes your stretch of road more special than other roads of similar condition that the rest of us have to put up with in the UK generally?
 

Northhighland

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What makes your stretch of road more special than other roads of similar condition that the rest of us have to put up with in the UK generally?

Spend a lot of my time travelling around for work, the roads in the northern part of Scotland are in the poorest condition I have seen. Not a scientific analysis but my observations are that there are potholes in places and of a depth that is not seen elsewhere in the UK.
 

theblackwatch

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This thread is for discussion of ScotRail HSTs - if anyone wishes to discuss roads in Scotland, or elsewhere, please feel free to start another thread in the appropriate place. Any further posts on that subject made here will be removed.
 

NotATrainspott

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Anyway - signs/posters/whatever now appearing at stations highlighting the forthcoming arrival of the HST alongside the other improvements between now and 2020.

Any pics? I would be interested to see how they're being advertised.
 

jingsmonty

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There will be no increase above 100mph for the Scotrail HSTs as the Scotrail Safety case for using them is based on 100mph max. speed. Had another look through the HST thread on our internal social media site.

Must have a look at that myself. My understanding is that as our HSTs will be formed of 4/5 coach sets, this means a decrease in available brake force - I'm guessing this is why the 100mph max is stipulated (also saves track upgrade work...).

I would REALLY like to see some concrete plans for infrastructure improvements on the HML (even limited ones, like some resignalling, lengthening of loops, some re-doubling, new loops, etc).

I think the acceleration of HSTs will be phenomenal, in comparison to class 170/158 (particularly on gradients), would assume that's where a large part of the journey time reductions will come from (particularly on the HML, which has some ferocious gradients).
 

Blindtraveler

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No doubt about it, particularly looking forward to standing starts from Carbridge going North and a rocketing start out of Inverness South. I rode a 6 coach XC set at the very end of last year and she just flew so 4s and 5s will be something else. Perhaps we should have a race between 158, 170 and 2 plus 5 HST? The 158 will be closest to the HST although I woant match it in my opinion
 

43183

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Apparently the first HST bound for ScotRail left Bristol last night and arrived in Doncaster this morning.
 

XCTurbostar

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Will the HSTs only enter service after their mods? or are there plans to introduce them ASAP?

Thanks,
Ross
 

Clansman

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For clarification, the set is going all the way up to Edinburgh Waverley (arrive around 12:25), then to Craigentinny.

This set is not being refurbished immediately but is being used for driver and mechanical training, and will receive promotional vinyl this weekend.
 

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Darandio

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I'm guessing i've missed a step here. I assumed (never ever do that!) that the coaches were being dropped at Doncaster before the powercars were moved north but the whole set has gone.

So is this first set for driver training and the coaches from that being done later?
 

Clansman

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I'm guessing i've missed a step here. I assumed (never ever do that!) that the coaches were being dropped at Doncaster before the powercars were moved north but the whole set has gone.

So is this first set for driver training and the coaches from that being done later?

Edited my post above yours to explain further details.
 

158722

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For clarification, the set is going all the way up to Edinburgh Waverley (arrive around 12:25), then to Craigentinny.

This set is not being refurbished immediately but is being used for driver and mechanical training, and will receive promotional vinyl this weekend.

That looks like two TSOs, a TGS and Buffet - the rest of LA02 stayed at Laira?
 

158722

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Nope, Donny.

ok, cheers - no idea of which vehicles stayed?

Also, as a point of interest, I'm fairly sure that this will have been the first time that both 43021 and 43132 will have crossed into Scotland. Both would have escaped native WR metals up to around 1991, as WR PCs were still diagrammed on NE-SW services until that time, until displaced by former ECML PCs, made available for an expanded XC fleet. I've had 43021 for haulage into Newcastle and the services they covered only went that far - with EC/NL PCs covering stuff further north. Since then, I doubt either of these PCs have wandered much off their usual WR patch - unless anyone knows otherwise!
 
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