Not moving from clearly marked reserved seat when requested by reservation holder

[al78]

I agree that we could, over time, adapt our working practices so that everybody doesn't have to use a finite limited resource (public transport and roads) at the same time. The problem is in the UK there tends to be great resistance to change, as though the thinking (if there is any thinking) is that how we do things now is the optimum, and any change is bound to be detrimental. Welcome to stagnation and in the worst case, regression.

 

[al78]

08:00 Start working from home
10:00 Catch train to London
11:00 Arrive at office and start meeting
13:00 End meeting and leave office
14:00 Get home and resume work
18:00 Finish work

This is fine if you don't work for one of those helicopter micro-managers who insist on you being instantly accessible in person whenever they want, the ones who come in every 20 minutes demanding progress reports, and end up putting you behind schedule because they just obliviously consume your time with their pointless detrimental over-pedantic OCD micro-management BS.

 

[Wombat]

This is fine if you don't work for one of those helicopter micro-managers who insist on you being instantly accessible in person whenever they want, the ones who come in every 20 minutes demanding progress reports, and end up putting you behind schedule because they just obliviously consume your time with their pointless detrimental over-pedantic OCD micro-management BS.

Yes, I know the type. A change in working practices would require grown-up management! Some organisations are better at that than others (I'm a contractor so I see lots of different companies).

I think my point is that organisations can change if they have to - an example of this is the directive that employers must either provide flexible working patterns on request, or demonstrate why they can't reasonably do so. In plenty of cases there will be reasonable explanations for why it's not possible, but in others it's just tradition, suspicious management and lack of appropriate technology.

It's surely inevitable, because we'll increasingly reach the point where people physically aren't able to do the traditional 9 - 5 in the office because there isn't space on the train to accommodate them. That's already apparent as my train gets closer to London, and it appears (anecdotally) to be getting worse over the years. And if it's going to happen, we might as well plan properly for it rather than hoping that employers will achieve spontaneous enlightenment.

 

[edwin_m]

The season ticket discount does of course penalise people who try to work flexibly. Someone coming in only three days a week is probably paying the same as someone coming in for five.

Hopefully with smartcards we will get a system where people are only charged for the journeys they undertake, and less if they do so at less busy times. However, despite many promises, I don't believe it's happened yet (but would be delighted if someone gave an example to prove me wrong!). Even then the season ticket causes a problem, as the peak journey on the smartcard will have to be priced similarly to a day's worth of season, so the TOC risks losing revenue on Anytime tickets.

 

[broadgage]

I doubt that working from home will ever be as popular as some advocates hope.

Most employers are a bit doubtful and consider that anyone not sitting at a desk, and wearing a suit are perhaps "not really working" They might be wearing pyjamas for goodness sake !

A lot of employees are not that keen, because after a little consideration, it dawns on them that if THEY could work from home, could not someone in India work from THEIR home instead for 10% of the salary.

 

[ejstubbs]

I think my point is that organisations can change if they have to...In plenty of cases there will be reasonable explanations for why it's not possible, but in others it's just tradition, suspicious management and lack of appropriate technology.

This one thousand fold. I know of one company locally which recently closed a large city centre office, with the employees relocated to another office on the edge of town. That office was already fully occupied - a fact which senior management was perfectly well aware of, so the directive came down that henceforth everyone would have to work from home two days a week.*

Nonetheless, there remains a not inconsiderable rump** of middle managers who simply hate their staff working from home and refuse to let them do it, for no justifiable reason that anyone can perceive. The result is that other departments take up the slack, and run with so few people in the office at any one time that many members of the team never get any face to face interaction with some of their colleagues.

Why senior management don't force their middle managers to toe the line, when their attitude leads to resentment within their own teams, and disruption for other teams, I will never understand.

* At the same time, another message was being promulgated that having everyone all on the same premises would improve interaction between departments - somewhat overlooking the fact that not everyone would be on the same premises at the same time. But I'm sure the intentions were good...

** Perhaps this is why such managers so often seem to get referred to as @rses?

 

[Antman]

I did, and the reply was that the train manager was in charge (which is factually correct) but otherwise not helpful and stating that it was Maundy Thursday which was also factually correct.
The season ticket holder stated that he should receive priority, and the train manager seemed to agree.

So the train manager told you that you were not entitled to your reserved seat and they wouldn't shift the person sat there, but they did want you to move from an unreserved seat so someone else could sit there?

I think an appropriate response to that request would be "no thanks", headphones back in and carry on with your book.

 

[jon0844]

I doubt that working from home will ever be as popular as some advocates hope.

Most employers are a bit doubtful and consider that anyone not sitting at a desk, and wearing a suit are perhaps "not really working" They might be wearing pyjamas for goodness sake !

A lot of employees are not that keen, because after a little consideration, it dawns on them that if THEY could work from home, could not someone in India work from THEIR home instead for 10% of the salary.

I think there are very genuine concerns about how much work gets done by those who work from home. It will depend on how much freedom employees have. Like being totally free to manage their own time, so that could allow popping to the shops in the day, or eating lunch whenever wanted etc - or having to still be working during set hours.

That will depend on the interaction with colleagues, through Skype or whatever other software. Is that person to be 'tracked' (not necessarily GPS, but being shown as 'available' and contactable at any time) or just measured on their performance?

I've worked from home for some years, and apart from the lack of social interaction (a few work events and London or Manchester based meetings) the other problem for me, and others, was the feeling/fear that someone elsewhere is just assuming you're not working. You can then feel bad for just going to the shops for a snack.

Meanwhile, a boss somewhere IS probably thinking that because I'd chat to some colleagues who were quite happy to take the day off and just go offline, then blame their computer. That then creates a feeling of resentment because you know that colleagues aren't working, so why are you (a bit like why people fare evade after seeing everyone else get away with it).

I think staggering work hours, or having certain days where you work from home, can work - and probably needs to work - but I can see things from both sides.

Plus working from home isn't for everyone. You need the discipline, the motivation and a tidy office area you can feel like IS an office you commuted to.

 

[185143]

8 out of 10 people will move when asked, 1 will move after huffing and puffing. What practically are you going to do about the 1 in 10 who wont move?

Are you suggesting physically dragging someone out of a seat? I cant see any way in which that will go wrong! Will the guard bother to call the BTP over a minor thing like this? Will they bother to attend and arrest someone? Surely, they have bigger fish to fry.

Practicality is all important. Sadly you are reliant on the decency of people. Most are decent. A few are not. That isnt right but is the way of the world.

Do you work for United Airlines?

 

[broadgage]

I no longer recall the exact words used by the train manager, but they certainly made no attempt to remove the season ticket holder from the seat that I had booked.
I was also put under moral pressure to move for "someone elderly" and was told to co-operate with the train manager, who also stated that I was lucky to get on the train.
"what do you expect on Maundy Thursday, it is always like this"

My experience was far from unique, others reported similar experiences. Much more recent postings on this and other forums suggest that it has got worse since.
I had hoped to take a meal in the Pullman, but this was not available "due to overcrowding"

I eventually received partial compensation, less an administration deduction, this was separately refunded after more argument on my part.

It must be said that most subsequent journeys on FGW were much more satisfactory, but that was largely because I had learned my lesson NEVER to use the train on the day preceding a holiday weekend.

 

[al78]

Plus working from home isn't for everyone. You need the discipline, the motivation and a tidy office area you can feel like IS an office you commuted to.

On the occasions I have worked from home, I have been more productive. My home office is not in a grotty prefab. Heavy rain doesn't come through my windows when the wind is blowing in a certain direction. There is no captain gobs*ite next door. No-one at home is doing hour long conference calls at the volume of someone on a mobile in a train. No having to queue to use the toilet. No having to queue to wash my mug in the sink. No having to queue to microwave my lunch. No having to wait to walk through a doorway because there ALWAYS seems to be a convoy coming the other way. No interruptions every 20 minutes and being sidetracked. No-one walking around the building with feet like the yeti (i.e.thump thump thump crash bang). No-one congregating in groups outside my office having loud conversations. No-one's children making the place sound like a creche. Yes, I have to say working from home has a lot going for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if working from home needs to come with more flexibilities, perhaps using some of the better aspects of the "gig economy" (it's not all negative). Such as tracking peoples' performance not based on hours worked ("presenteeism culture" is really very negative) but based on what they deliver.

If you work that way, who cares if you have a 4 hour lunch break and do a bit of work in the evening (I actually find a split shift can suit me quite well as I get quite tired and unproductive for an hour or so after eating, so when working from home I often do do 9-12 then 2-7 or something approximating to that), or if you prefer starting at 6am and finishing early afternoon?

OK, you need to be able to do meetings etc if needed, but other than that?

Doesn't work in every industry, but certainly could for most admin-type work. And the bulk of the work in the City is office work which can work in that kind of way.

 

[Antman]

I no longer recall the exact words used by the train manager, but they certainly made no attempt to remove the season ticket holder from the seat that I had booked.
I was also put under moral pressure to move for "someone elderly" and was told to co-operate with the train manager, who also stated that I was lucky to get on the train.
"what do you expect on Maundy Thursday, it is always like this"

To the question "What do I expect" would be the answer "For you to do your job irrespective of the day of the week and move the season ticket holder on so I can sit in my reserved seat. If you don't want to do that then I suggest you use your discretion and bump the OAP into first class and leave me in peace".

 

[broadgage]

I was already in first class, having paid the full first class fare. I suspect that the pensioner for whom I was told to stand HAD been allowed into first because they looked deserving, that however was pure conjecture on my part.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, I have to say working from home has a lot going for it.

I've done working from home, to working in an office, to home.. and so on.

Change is often good for change's sake. After a few months of being home all the time, it does take its toll. All those benefits, like not commuting or having to pay £2.50 for a coffee, can become things you miss for the interaction with other people, and doing something that is 'your own time'.

People manage in their own ways, and I'm sure one day I may work from home again all the time, but it's not quite that simple and certainly not suited for all.

But you don't need everyone to work from home, or all the time.

 

[Antman]

I was already in first class, having paid the full first class fare. I suspect that the pensioner for whom I was told to stand HAD been allowed into first because they looked deserving, that however was pure conjecture on my part.

So why didn't the train manager just evict someone in second class who was sat in a priority seat for them if they didn't want to deal with the season ticket holder? On second thoughts never mind, earplugs in, back to book.