Voyagers-Why only 4/5 cars?

[25322]

It were to do with seats. There is supposed to be as many on a 4 car voyager as on the 5 coach 47 hauled mk2 rake. But as someone else pointed out they are complete tosh and nobody likes them who travels on them regularly. Me i'll do anything to avoid them, even if my journey takes 2 hours longer and invloves travelling on nodding donkeys (Pacer units) its got to be better than sitting (if you're lucky) on a train with the constant smell of toilets in seats that aren't comfortable. Meridians somehow seem to be just that bit better but is the same basic train.
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But if they want to encourage us to ditch the car then more carriages are needed. Stupid government and its backwards thinking.

Maybe so but you pay more tax to use your car. Fuel tax, VAT, Road tax. Puts a different slant on it when you look at the revenue that would be lost if everyone switched to the trains. As all the income that you pay for your train ticket very little ends up in the Chancellors box. Most of it ending up in private companies profits. So maybe not so stupid afterall.

Just like to say i don't have any political alliance to any party as i find politicians all the same. Me first!

 

[will1337]

Pacers, comfortable? Ever been on a WYPTE 144? It may be different for others but I'm about 6'3" and have to put my knees inwards into the slight hole in the back of the chair to get them in there and after about half an hour it borders on pain as there's nowhere else to put them! Admittedly the bench seat Pacers are a lot better.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

It were to do with seats. There is supposed to be as many on a 4 car voyager as on the 5 coach 47 hauled mk2 rake. But as someone else pointed out they are complete tosh and nobody likes them who travels on them regularly. Me i'll do anything to avoid them, even if my journey takes 2 hours longer and invloves travelling on nodding donkeys (Pacer units) its got to be better than sitting (if you're lucky) on a train with the constant smell of toilets in seats that aren't comfortable. Meridians somehow seem to be just that bit better but is the same basic train

I think the Voyagers take a lot of unfair flack. Yes, the length is ridiculous. It also has not resolved the problem on the "busiest stretch of line" between Leeds and Birmingham as Leeds is still only served hourly. However, I have made it a point to travel on Voyagers recently. On one occasion I had to stand. On all the other occasions I had a seat. On all of these occasions, the seat was comfortable with lots of legroom and the quality of ride was superb - dare I say, better than a Mk3? It is also very noticable how quick off the mark the units are. They take off like an electrocuted cat. I fully believe the Voyager is a large step up from the HST's they replaced and would only be bettered by being longer ie meridien length.

 

[me123]

I wouldn't say they were better than a Mark 3 in general, but they're decent trains. I prefer Pendos, but they're not bad. All they need is 2 or 3 extra carriages each. How expensive can that be? It'd certainly be a good investment; I know I'd be more likely to go XC if the trains were of a decent length.

Yeah, the 4 car trains are useful for some services; I can't imagine it's busy North of Edinburgh. But running a 4 car train from Edinburgh to Leeds is just downright barmy.

 

[asylumxl]

I prefer the Meridians over the Voyagers. I feel there is a noticeable improvement in ride quality and noise.

 

[25322]

Pacers, comfortable? Ever been on a WYPTE 144? It may be different for others but I'm about 6'3" and have to put my knees inwards into the slight hole in the back of the chair to get them in there and after about half an hour it borders on pain as there's nowhere else to put them! Admittedly the bench seat Pacers are a lot better.

Never said the pacers were comfortable but preferable and I've been on quite a few 144's and I'm 6'2".

 

[Meridian richard]

I agree I prefer Meridians to Voygers they have added more carridges because they only started out the 4 car trains and now they are more 7 car trains on the move the 4 cars

XC should take a leaf out of East Midlands Trains book

 

[222001]

I agree I prefer Meridians to Voygers they have added more carridges because they only started out the 4 car trains and now they are more 7 car trains on the move the 4 cars

XC should take a leaf out of East Midlands Trains book

I liked the 9 car Meridians! There were brilliant! Shame they are only 7 cars long now.

 

[northernbored]

I feel for people on the west coast, NXEC operate 9 carriage HST's and are alway virtually full with quite high frequency depatures for london.
how you survive on virgin i don't know

 

[ukrob]

I feel for people on the west coast, NXEC operate 9 carriage HST's and are alway virtually full with quite high frequency depatures for london.
how you survive on virgin i don't know

Errrr... are you ignoring the 3tph to Birmingham, 3tph to manchester, 1tph to Liverpool and others which run on the West Coast which are all nine coaches and many soon to be eleven? Should people who use the WCML feel sorry for you when that happens?

Virgin only use Voyagers on services which need shorter trains, and they are coupled into 10 car trains when needed too.

Are you mixing up Virgin Trains with Arriva Crosscountry?

 

[Pumbaa]

virtually full with quite high frequency depatures for london.

Quite high frequency? 4tph last time I checked into and out of the Cross. On the other hand, 9tph in and out of Euston. I don't know how I cope either.

Virtually full? I'd rather get a seat thanks!

 

[northernbored]

Errrr... are you ignoring the 3tph to Birmingham, 3tph to manchester, 1tph to Liverpool and others which run on the West Coast which are all nine coaches and many soon to be eleven? Should people who use the WCML feel sorry for you when that happens??

I suppose, but NXEC do not serve as many large cities as virgin.

Are you mixing up Virgin Trains with Arriva Crosscountry?

Ooooppp I though voyager was a virgin brandname only like the Pioneer, Adelante or Meridian.

 

[devon_metro]

Quite high frequency? 4tph last time I checked into and out of the Cross. On the other hand, 9tph in and out of Euston. I don't know how I cope either.

Virtually full? I'd rather get a seat thanks!

Funny how 9tph is considered VHF. FGW operate up to 9 High Speed train departure from London Paddington!

 

[ukrob]

Funny how 9tph is considered VHF. FGW operate up to 9 High Speed train departure from London Paddington!

FGW can not operate VHF as the 'V' stands for 'Virgin' and not 'very'

I don't know FGW very well - is it 'upto 9' or is it '9'? Virgin operate nine per hour off peak and more in the peak.

 

[MCR247]

Funny how 9tph is considered VHF. FGW operate up to 9 High Speed train departure from London Paddington!

Really?? This would use more platforms, as VTs services have a quick turn around time.

EDIT: Just reallised, that FGWs HSTs have a 30min turnaroud time, so not much different!

 

[devon_metro]

If we take 1200-1259 for example:
1200 Bristol
1206 Penzance
1215 Cardiff
1218 Taunton
1222 Oxford
1230 Bristol
1245 Swansea
1248 Cheltenham
1251 Oxford
total: 9

Peak
1700 Bristol
1703 Penzance
1706 Westbury
1715 Swansea
1721 Worcester
1730 Taunton
1733 Paignton
1736 Oxford
1745 Swansea
1748 Cheltenham
1751 Worcester
total: 11

 

[87015]

The Oxfords and the Taunton (presuming thats one of the very very slow ones down the Desert like the 08.18 ) arn't really high speed services though, just happen to be HST operated. If they count you'd have to include a couple of LM Northampton/Crewe services as the equivalent.

 

[ukrob]

The Oxfords and the Taunton (presuming thats one of the very very slow ones down the Desert like the 0818) arn't really high speed services though, just happen to be HST operated. If they count you'd have to include a couple of LM Northampton/Crewe services as the equivalent.

That makes it six an hour then not nine. I was struggling to find all the services mentioned in timetables and what they were operated by etc

 

[devon_metro]

However they all run fast line as far as Reading.

 

[Pumbaa]

The Oxfords and the Taunton (presuming thats one of the very very slow ones down the Desert like the 08.18 ) arn't really high speed services though, just happen to be HST operated. If they count you'd have to include a couple of LM Northampton/Crewe services as the equivalent.

I was thinking that.

However they all run fast line as far as Reading.

The Crewe services on LM run fast from London to Watford or MK depending. The fast Northampton services also run Fast lines to/from Watford to avoid the locals.

 

[thefab444]

The Cheltenham services only run every other hour as well, and that 1218 is merely an extended Bedwyn stopper, usually formed of a Turdo, good choice of hour there Liam!

 

[ukrob]

So basically the 9tph that he mentiones is total rubbish then :roll:

 

[devon_metro]

So basically the 9tph that he mentiones is total rubbish then :roll:

Yes, I made all of those trains up. I didn't include the 4 hex services an hour. A very congested railway and it hasn't had billions spent on it.

 

[ukrob]

Yes, I made all of those trains up. I didn't include the 4 hex services an hour. A very congested railway and it hasn't had billions spent on it.

I don't get what you are trying to prove? Are you trying to say 'my local line is busier than yours' when you don't know where I actually live? It seems pretty childish.

You stated that Paddington throws out 9 trains per hour off peak and have been challenged about it, which you clearly don't like. You chose an hour which is busier than most and included trains which are operated by HST's regardless of the actual service. Others have pointed out that if you want to compare like for like then you need to include all the fast London Midland services out of Euston in addition to all of Virgins services.

Now you are trying to include HEX services? Maybe we should include LO services out of Euston too in that case!

So the GWML is a 'very congested railway'? So is the WCML, so is the ECML, so what? The WCML had billions spent on it because it was needed. It ain't just Virgin trains who use it, nor just passenger services, it is one of the busiest freight routes in Europe, that adds to the 'congestion' too.

Do you want to compare like for like, or do you just want to say 'mine is better than yours' without knowing what 'mine' is? If it is the latter then feel free to have the last say, it doesn't bother me in the least and just makes you look a bit silly.

 

[TEW]

The Cheltenham services only run every other hour as well, and that 1218 is merely an extended Bedwyn stopper, usually formed of a Turdo, good choice of hour there Liam!

The 1218 is always an HST, you would probably have problems with crew knowledge getting a Turbo to Taunton.

 

[tbtc]

He he he.

In which case, I'm going to claim nine trains per hour on the MML (by the same logic):

2- St Albans
2 - Luton
4 - Bedford
1 - Corby
2 - Nottingham
1 - Derby
1 - Sheffield

They all run "fast" to at least Kentish Town

(hope nobody adds up the Waterloo/ Victoria/ London Bridge figures or we'll be here all day!)

The VHF is a huge improvement on what's gone before, an a significant increase in seats. Maybe if Crossrail can take some local trains out of Paddington, there'll be room to increase the Great Western frequency similarly.

 

[rogACE]

i agree with devon metro,the fgw chap

i live at paddington and find the FGW HST services usually a dream,
lots of them and very frequent, and all fast to reading which is nearly 30 mins, (hardly kentish town lol)

FGW HST's are a real train with decent comfort and usually food and drink with great cheap 1st class advance tickets on many FGW services,
NEXEC, if they survive, poor souls, offer a better product than WCML or xc.

as for voyagers whether it be virgin or Arriva xc, or EMT, yuk,
ghastly noisy things,
yes they are fast (thats all they have going for them)
u cannot connect 2 together and gangway them thru-out,
on long journeys the noise is awful,
the overcrowding is breathtaking,
i avoid them like the plague,
the seat legroom is either poor or very good and some seats like the pendoleanos have no window alignment and are like sitting in an old comet airliner, narrow and stuffy...
NO luggage space.

the concept of hourly brum-bournemouth trains using new voyagers at the start seemed a good principle but very soon was obvious that overcrowding was terrible,
5 car 221's came in soon after, dont know if the 5th car was added from inception or not...
also voyagers when overcrowded the train wont move if overloaded !
(oh great) and also when they ran past dawlish and the sea shot over them the brakes failed...joy
sit on one all day from edinburgh to bournemouth? errr no
i can go on...lol

really its time long distance travel was upgraded to decent HST type trains and if you want joe public to get off his fat bum outta his nice warm comfy car then best make it attractive eh?
the adelantes didnt last long on FGW did they?

look at the waterloo-weymouth route now...
a shadow of its former express status...
no catering hardly (maybe some surly eastern european serving a paper cup of warm brown water and a rubbery muffin) and sometimes the service operated by desrios in a commuter layout...
waterloo-dorset is not a commuter run first and for-most,
if you want people to leave the car then make them comfy lol

 

[MCR247]

as for voyagers whether it be virgin or Arriva xc, or EMT, yuk,
ghastly noisy things,
yes they are fast (thats all they have going for them)
u cannot connect 2 together and gangway them thru-out,
on long journeys the noise is awful,
the overcrowding is breathtaking,
i avoid them like the plague,
the seat legroom is either poor or very good and some seats like the pendoleanos have no window alignment and are like sitting in an old comet airliner, narrow and stuffy...
NO luggage space.

the concept of hourly brum-bournemouth trains using new voyagers at the start seemed a good principle but very soon was obvious that overcrowding was terrible,
5 car 221's came in soon after, dont know if the 5th car was added from inception or not...
also voyagers when overcrowded the train wont move if overloaded !
(oh great) and also when they ran past dawlish and the sea shot over them the brakes failed...joy
sit on one all day from edinburgh to bournemouth? errr no
i can go on...lol

really its time long distance travel was upgraded to decent HST type trains and if you want joe public to get off his fat bum outta his nice warm comfy car then best make it attractive eh?
the adelantes didnt last long on FGW did they?

look at the waterloo-weymouth route now...
a shadow of its former express status...
no catering hardly (maybe some surly eastern european serving a paper cup of warm brown water and a rubbery muffin) and sometimes the service operated by desrios in a commuter layout...
waterloo-dorset is not a commuter run first and for-most,
if you want people to leave the car then make them comfy lol

EMT dont have voyagers they have 222s which IMO are much better!

 

[GNERman]

whats different about them?

 

[asylumxl]

whats different about them?

More interior space/better layout, toilet smell doesn't seep into AC too much.