Huge fire in Grenfell Tower - West London

[najaB]

I for one certainly feel for the Guy who's fridge caught fire and triggered the fire. He from all reports was racing round neigbhouring flats banging on the doors, warning folk of the fire and to leave...... He'll have to live with the outcome for the rest of his days.

Yeah. But at least he can take some small comfort in the fact that he didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Railops]

Camden has just announced they're going to evacuate 5 tower blocks tonight, this will probably go nationwide where they will put all the residents anybody's guess. This is thousands and thousands of people.

 

[AndyPJG]

Camden has just announced they're going to evacuate 5 tower blocks tonight, this will probably go nationwide where they will put all the residents anybody's guess. This is thousands and thousands of people.

Nope, only one of five:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148

Camden Council says residents in 161 flats in the Taplow block, one of five towers on the Chalcots estate, will be moved for "urgent fire safety works".

 

[Antman]

Camden has just announced they're going to evacuate 5 tower blocks tonight, this will probably go nationwide where they will put all the residents anybody's guess. This is thousands and thousands of people.

And well done to Camden Council for taking such decisive action, hotels and B&B's I guess?

 

[Antman]

Nope, only one of five:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148

Other reports say five blocks are being evacuated.

 

[Darandio]

The BBC report has actually been amended to five blocks and over 800 homes.

 

[Railops]

Watching the residents on Sky moaning that they've not had enough notice and why are they going to a leisure center as it's not good enough makes me think Camden shouldn't have bothered.
You really can't win with some people.
Panic and over-reaction by Camden.

 

[IanXC]

Has anyone seen an official Police source quoting "a faulty fridge" rather than "the fire started in a fridge"?

Having heard the Police statement it seems to me that plenty of media outlets have turned made the assumption that the fridge was faulty. Let us not forget that this model of fridge has not had any product recalls, and that Grenfell Tower is known to have been suffering electrical faults.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Has anyone seen an official Police source quoting "a faulty fridge" rather than "the fire started in a fridge"?

Having heard the Police statement it seems to me that plenty of media outlets have turned made the assumption that the fridge was faulty. Let us not forget that this model of fridge has not had any product recalls, and that Grenfell Tower is known to have been suffering electrical faults.

Considering the manufacturers have responded. They have not ruled out that it was faulty. The power surges were 4 years ago and the power supply in was rewired.

 

[Antman]

Watching the residents on Sky moaning that they've not had enough notice and why are they going to a leisure center as it's not good enough makes me think Camden shouldn't have bothered.
You really can't win with some people.
Panic and over-reaction by Camden.

I would have thought residents would be able to stay, at their own risk, should they wish to do so? Personally I'd rather get out.

 

[Antman]

Considering the manufacturers have responded. They have not ruled out that it was faulty. The power surges were 4 years ago and the power supply in was rewired.

It may have been an old second hand fridge, I don't think people should start blaming Hotpoint.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It may have been an old second hand fridge, I don't think people should start blaming Hotpoint.

I'm not saying they should either. But it hasn't been ruled out officially.

 

[IanXC]

Considering the manufacturers have responded. They have not ruled out that it was faulty. The power surges were 4 years ago and the power supply in was rewired.

I'm not saying they should either. But it hasn't been ruled out officially.

Ah I haven't heard anything about the building having been rewired.

Indeed - its equally not been "ruled in" - just seems to me to be a bit of a leap from what the Police have said to what the media are reporting.

 

[Busaholic]

The BBC report has actually been amended to five blocks and over 800 homes.

I don't pretend to know the situation now, but back in the Dark Ages when I worked for Camden Housing there were six blocks of council flats on/just off Adelaide Road, the five blocks now being evacuated inc Taplow and Bray, all purpose-built for the council and the sixth, Blashford, which was on the other side of the road overlooking what was still Primrose Hill Station, and I came to know this block quite well. It had been constructed privately to a higher standard than those other five and was much sort after by tenants. It even had a resident caretaker, a very pleasant and sensible man. In the few years I visited that block, including some after I'd left Camden's employ, I never knew an occasion when the lifts weren't working, and neither did I ever hear of such an event and that was unprecedented in my experience. All tower blocks weren't/aren't equal, in construction, servicing or tenanting terms, even in Socialist Republics!

 

[Dai Corner]

I don't pretend to know the situation now, but back in the Dark Ages when I worked for Camden Housing there were six blocks of council flats on/just off Adelaide Road, the five blocks now being evacuated inc Taplow and Bray, all purpose-built for the council and the sixth, Blashford, which was on the other side of the road overlooking what was still Primrose Hill Station, and I came to know this block quite well. It had been constructed privately to a higher standard than those other five and was much sort after by tenants. It even had a resident caretaker, a very pleasant and sensible man. In the few years I visited that block, including some after I'd left Camden's employ, I never knew an occasion when the lifts weren't working, and neither did I ever hear of such an event and that was unprecedented in my experience. All tower blocks weren't/aren't equal, in construction, servicing or tenanting terms, even in Socialist Republics!

Blashford is being evacuated apparently
http://news.camden.gov.uk/evacuation-of-taplow-block---leader-statement/

London,23June2017
Updated 22:07 - Evacuation of Taplow block - Leader statement
22:07 UPDATE: We are evacuating residents from all five blocks, starting immediately. If you have friends or family you can stay with tonight please do so. If you do arrange to do this but need longer term accommodation please come to Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre tomorrow and we will help you find accommodation at no cost

To ensure your safety we are door knocking the blocks one at a time. We are doing that in the following order:

1. Taplow
2. Burnham
3. Bray
4. Blashford
5. Dorney

You will be able to get back into your block over the weekend to collect more of your possessions, however this will be under escort from the London Fire Brigade. In the meantime we recommend you pack a bag with enough items to last 2-4 weeks.

 

[Busaholic]

Blashford is being evacuated apparently
http://news.camden.gov.uk/evacuation-of-taplow-block---leader-statement/

I guess Blashford must have been subject to the same refurbishment programme as the others, then. Perhaps it was 4+1 rather than 5+1 that I remember. It was only Blashford that I really remember, my visits to the other blocks being sparse.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Specifically, a Hotpoint fridge/freezer.

Interestingly, Hotpoint have been mired in controversy for several years now because some of their tumble dryers have a tendency to self-immolate. Hotpoint have dragged their heels, shall we say, in getting these machines repaired or replaced.

ETA: This is an interesting article. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ulty-whirlpool-machine-product-safety-scandal Some interesting photographs too. Hotpoint still drag their heels.

Let's put it this way: I used to have a Hotpoint washing machine. It blew. The replacement, another brand new Hotpoint, blew just 8 months later.

I have not had anything in the house from any of the Whirlpool brands for some years now since that happened.

 

[Busaholic]

I would have thought residents would be able to stay, at their own risk, should they wish to do so? Personally I'd rather get out.

They can, apparently. There will, of course, be owner/occupiers in the mix, as well as tenants, so Camden probably wouldn't have the powers to force them out.

 

[jon0844]

And well done to Camden Council for taking such decisive action, hotels and B&B's I guess?

Given one of their buildings could have gone up first, which would have put them in the spotlight instead, I am not sure why everyone is giving them such praise.

Did they use the same materials because of greedy cost-cutting, or were they simply innocent victims?

I don't think any council can do anything else and the same questions will need to be asked to them as anyone else found using the same materials.

 

[najaB]

Did they use the same materials because of greedy cost-cutting, or were they simply innocent victims?

Any cost-cutting (assuming it did exist) would have been on the part of the contractors,
not the Council.

Given one of their buildings could have gone up first, which would have put them in the spotlight instead, I am not sure why everyone is giving them such praise.

Because they could have taken less positive, definitive action, especially since the risk of a repeat occurrence is actually relatively low. The work to remove the cladding is expected to take a few weeks, the likelihood of a fire occurring in that time is near-zero.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Let's put it this way: I used to have a Hotpoint washing machine. It blew. The replacement, another brand new Hotpoint, blew just 8 months later.

I have not had anything in the house from any of the Whirlpool brands for some years now since that happened.

Don't blame Whirlpool. They acquired the brand in 2014, after the fridge was made.

 

[bramling]

Any cost-cutting (assuming it did exist) would have been on the part of the contractors,
not the Council.Because they could have taken less positive, definitive action, especially since the risk of a repeat occurrence is actually relatively low. The work to remove the cladding is expected to take a few weeks, the likelihood of a fire occurring in that time is near-zero.

The fact that it's *near* zero, as opposed to zero itself, has presumably concentrated some minds - and I imagine the fact that there is a police criminal investigation going on may well have influenced the decision process. However inconvenient it is, I think it's the right decision.

 

[Antman]

The fact that it's *near* zero, as opposed to zero itself, has presumably concentrated some minds - and I imagine the fact that there is a police criminal investigation going on may well have influenced the decision process. However inconvenient it is, I think it's the right decision.

Exactly, although it's unlikely if the worst happened it would be impossible to get everyone out in time. Just cannot take chances with hundreds of lives.

 

[Antman]

Given one of their buildings could have gone up first, which would have put them in the spotlight instead, I am not sure why everyone is giving them such praise.

Did they use the same materials because of greedy cost-cutting, or were they simply innocent victims?

I don't think any council can do anything else and the same questions will need to be asked to them as anyone else found using the same materials.

They are all questions for another day, the council can only deal with the here and now.

 

[Dave1987]

The fact that it's *near* zero, as opposed to zero itself, has presumably concentrated some minds - and I imagine the fact that there is a police criminal investigation going on may well have influenced the decision process. However inconvenient it is, I think it's the right decision.

They could have put a fire appliance outside each of the blocks until the remedial works are carried out.

 

[Dave1987]

Given one of their buildings could have gone up first, which would have put them in the spotlight instead, I am not sure why everyone is giving them such praise.

Did they use the same materials because of greedy cost-cutting, or were they simply innocent victims?

I don't think any council can do anything else and the same questions will need to be asked to them as anyone else found using the same materials.

It will all come out in the wash. If anyone is found to have put lives at risk to save a few quid then they will and should face the consequences of their actions.

 

[skyhigh]

I guess Blashford must have been subject to the same refurbishment programme as the others, then. Perhaps it was 4+1 rather than 5+1 that I remember. It was only Blashford that I really remember, my visits to the other blocks being sparse.

Seems you were right in that Blashford is different - http://news.camden.gov.uk/fire-brigade-confirm-that-there-is-no-need-to-evacuate-blashford-tower/

Fire Brigade confirm that there is no need to evacuate Blashford Tower
Leader of Camden Council, Georgia Gould, said:

"We are very pleased to be able to tell residents of Blashford Tower on the Chalcots Estate that London Fire Brigade have advised us that they do not need to leave their flats. We will not be evacuating the tower, and if any residents have already gone to temporary accommodation they can return home either tonight or in the morning.

"There are several design elements at Blashford Tower that differ from the other four tower blocks on the estate and the London Fire Brigade and Camden Council have been working overnight to establish if it is safe for residents. The building is not as tall, and is smaller than the other four...

 

[Busaholic]

Seems you were right in that Blashford is different - http://news.camden.gov.uk/fire-brigade-confirm-that-there-is-no-need-to-evacuate-blashford-tower/

Happy to learn that my memories weren't 'false' ones after forty plus years. The reality is that this block was never part of the Chalcots Estate and, if it is now included in that designation, is for Camden's operational convenience.

 

[Busaholic]

They could have put a fire appliance outside each of the blocks until the remedial works are carried out.

Camden Council offered to pay for this option but, unsurprisingly, London Fire Brigade were unable or unwilling to play ball.

 

[Darandio]

Specifically, a Hotpoint fridge/freezer.

Interestingly, Hotpoint have been mired in controversy for several years now because some of their tumble dryers have a tendency to self-immolate. Hotpoint have dragged their heels, shall we say, in getting these machines repaired or replaced.

ETA: This is an interesting article. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ulty-whirlpool-machine-product-safety-scandal Some interesting photographs too. Hotpoint still drag their heels.

Our dryer was one of those affected and was bought brand new a couple of months before the issue become public. Interestingly, my partner had noticed scorch marks on certain clothing but as the issue hadn't been made public at that point, we weren't sure what was going on.

When the issue blew up in the media, I rang the number provided the next day and received a replacement in less than a week, it's been fine ever since. I'm staggered to see that even to this day some are still waiting.