Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBLIN) electrification

[goblinuser]

I haven't travelled on the line since the heritage DMUs (115s?) and in terms of mileage, it's not that long in real terms.

Is this just bad planning overall, an oversight on time-span or poor efficiency by the contractors?

The longer the project is delayed, what's already in place is liable to be non-compatible with the latest components etc

From what I have seen all the masts seem to be up. However there are 'problems with their design' apparently. I don't really want to make a judgement like this as a layperson as I may be completely wrong but in some places it seems as if the masts are in the wrong place and set too far back to reach the railway.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I thought diesel locos were simply used when going over the GOBLIN .....

Yep so being electric throughout is good and efficient

 

[swt_passenger]

From what I have seen all the masts seem to be up. However there are 'problems with their design' apparently. I don't really want to make a judgement like this as a layperson as I may be completely wrong but in some places it seems as if the masts are in the wrong place and set too far back to reach the railway.

Masts are often further back than you might expect at first glance to allow for things such as signal sighting on curves, or ground conditions, or other services such as track drainage, and in the most awkward cases they can be well away from the track with a portal frame (think of a crossbar) connecting two masts.

It is also fairly common to have a cantilever from only one side carrying OHLE over two tracks, so 'long reach' is not really much of an issue.

 

[Bald Rick]

It isn't just about GOBLIN passenger trains, it's also about moving electrically-hauled freight from the North London Line (so they can run more passenger trains on that line).

It really isn't about electric freight. There is very little freight on the line that will go over to Electric haulage, and an even smaller amount of existing electric freight that goes via Stratford that will be rerouted this way.

 

[Alfie1014]

It really isn't about electric freight. There is very little freight on the line that will go over to Electric haulage, and an even smaller amount of existing electric freight that goes via Stratford that will be rerouted this way.

Yep, unfortunately the transfer of Frieghtliner's operations from the (wired) Tilbury terminal to the (unwired) London Gateway terminal has removed most electrically hauled trains to/from the LTS, only the car trains to Dagenham and occasional others to Barking/Ripple Lane remain.

 

[philthetube]

I think they should send 142's down to operate the service, watch the fur fly and the job get done.

 

[59CosG95]

I think they should send 142's down to operate the service, watch the fur fly and the job get done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7edeOEuXdMU&t=0m7s

(whenever anyone suggest putting Pacers darn sarf, the above video seems entirely appropriate)

 

[plcd1]

Hello everyone. Just signed up to say that with all these issues perhaps electrification was not the right solution for this line. The user group has been recommending electrification as a solution for decades, yet many people don't fully understand it and think it is the only means to more capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with electrification, perhaps all we needed were some new coaches from Bombardier to add to the class 172s. Am I wrong to see this as a better solution? Cheers

TfL considered the case for adding carriages to the class 172s. They even initiated procurement enquiries but I guess they didn't like the numbers that came back. It therefore considered the case for electrification. It is also worth recalling that the expected approval by govt didn't happen in one of the Autumn Statements and then immense pressure was put on government to change their mind.

Yes everyone is rather cross that the electrification is running late *but* you need to consider that the current works plus the track lowering, longer platforms and bridge replacements are a once in a lifetime chance to knock the line into shape. The 172s are decent enough but simply cannot cope with peak demands or projected growth. You can't buy any more of them either - I think the emissions regulations changed. There was a lot of political pressure from Assembly Members to electrify the line to remove / reduce diesel train working because of air quality concerns. I imagine Chiltern Railways will be in the firing line soon enough over the use of diesel trains into a London terminus. I also expect freight companies and the operators of London Gateway will be pressured over retained use of diesel haulage once the GOBLIN is electrified. The political agenda on air quality is changing.

If the GOBLIN is extended to Barking Riverside then, again, there would be pressure for that to be an electric service not diesel. It makes a lot of sense to try to "fix" the route in terms of its rolling stock capacity and capabiltity and the infrastructure so there is a solid basis for future growth and coping with the planned extension. Once we get through the hurdles of finishing electrification and getting the new trains running and reliable I doubt anyone will be questioning the decision to electrify the line.

 

[reddragon]

The government actually lost a court case where they tried to defer action on air pollution and were forced to publish their initial action plan a week ago

This is the plan

http://instinctif.com/content/upload...e-May-2017.pdf

We will know the detail on July 31st and it does include railways and will probably be followed by banning diesel trains in some urban areas, initially London.

Grandfather rights will stand for nowt when so many are dying from diesel pollution each year and with solutions easy to implement and cost beneficial, the railways will have no excuses.

 

[snowball]

The government actually lost a court case where they tried to defer action on air pollution

They lost more than one case about it!

and were forced to publish their initial action plan a week ago

This is the plan

http://instinctif.com/content/upload...e-May-2017.pdf

We will know the detail on July 31st and it does include railways and will probably be followed by banning diesel trains in some urban areas, initially London.

Grandfather rights will stand for nowt when so many are dying from diesel pollution each year and with solutions easy to implement and cost beneficial, the railways will have no excuses.

There has been much comment that the plan is too weak and there may be further legal actions to try to force the government to strengthen it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They lost more than one case about it!

http://instinctif.com/content/upload...e-May-2017.pdf

There has been much comment that the plan is too weak and there may be further legal actions to try to force the government to strengthen it.

I get an error 404 page not found message. Are you sure this link is correct.

 

[asylumxl]

I get an error 404 page not found message. Are you sure this link is correct.

Could this be the link:

http://instinctif.com/content/uploads/2017/05/UK-air-quality-policy-landscape-May-2017.pdf

Here's the consultation link:

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/air-quality-plan-for-tackling-nitrogen-dioxide/

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Could this be the link:

http://instinctif.com/content/uploads/2017/05/UK-air-quality-policy-landscape-May-2017.pdf

Here's the consultation link:

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/air-quality-plan-for-tackling-nitrogen-dioxide/

perfect thanks

 

[plcd1]

This week's update to the TfL Track Closure list has added a series of Sunday or all weekend closure for the GOBLIN. No sign yet of a full or part blockade in that document. No other new closures beyond the end of July either.

 

[hwl]

Given GWML electrification and elimination of Diesel running into Paddington, 800s / 802s replacing VTEC HSTs and First Hull trains DMUs into Kings Cross, Goblin electrification (all pre 2020) and rolling MML electrification leading to significant reduction of Diesel EMT services into St Pancras there will be a 80%+ reduction in railway diesel emissions in London anyway which will probably take the pressure of for further short term action by the railways as they will have already done a fair bit.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Has the GOBLIN electrification reach the half-way point yet of all the infrastructure works that need doing?

 

[plcd1]

Has the GOBLIN electrification reach the half-way point yet of all the infrastructure works that need doing?

I haven't seen anyone declare a percentage complete figure. Network Rail will certainly have one but they're not going to declare it.

AFAIK the track lowering / planned bridge replacement / electrical substation works are all done. TfL's contractors have done most (all?) of the platform extension works. I haven't been along the line since it reopened hence the slight uncertainty. I understand the unplanned sewer breaches in E17 have been repaired. Even on the short section beside Ferry Lane there are incomplete masts with elements of the catenary equipment not present and nothing has changed in weeks. I assume this is because the contractors have been stood down/contract ended in Feb.

On that basis then there will be gaps in the mast installation along the elevated eastern section as it was nowhere near being ready just before line reopening. There is also the bridge issue at Crouch Hill that requires resolution. On top of that physical work there is also all the wire stringing, checking / testing and energisation works to do. Again there is no real visibility yet as to what work NR is planning to do when. There are obviously some logical sequences to be done but it's not clear whether NR could wire sections while work was being done to lower the bridge at Crouch Hill for example. The original plan was to wire from Gospel Oak and head east but that may not work given the need to raise the bridge at Crouch Hill which will probably take weeks. I guess it all depends on project logistics and availability of the specialised kit.

 

[AndyHA]

Is this Route still being converted to electric traction . Or have Network Rail just "given up " on this .
Around South Tottenham , it has been de-electrified . The previous electric route from the Lea Valley line to the Southbury Loop , had had its wires removed !
At Leyton Midland Road Station there is no sign of Electric.Wires etc .

Just what if anything is going on ??

 

[Cletus]

Was thinking that myself whilst fruitlessly on the look-out for 172005 on Sunday.

Then saw this link on a blog.
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/n...s-electrification-work-begins-again-1-5034493

The Barking to Gospel Oak Overground line will be closed for eight weekends as electrification work continues.

It had originally closed for eight months, reopening in February, but work was not finished on time due to design problems and the late delivery of some materials.

The line will be shut every Sunday from June 4 until July 23, with additional Saturday closures on July 9, 16 and 23.

Further temporary closures will be needed in the future to complete the work.

Richard Schofield, Network Rail’s route managing director for Anglia, said: “We will continue the electrification work during weekends in June and July while we finalise our full schedule.

 

[snowball]

with additional Saturday closures on July 9, 16 and 23.

They're a bit confused. Those dates are Sundays.

 

[matthewmacleod]

Is this Route still being converted to electric traction . Or have Network Rail just "given up " on this .
Around South Tottenham , it has been de-electrified . The previous electric route from the Lea Valley line to the Southbury Loop , had had its wires removed !
At Leyton Midland Road Station there is no sign of Electric.Wires etc .

Just what if anything is going on ??

Yes, it's still being electrified. We've just had a letter from Network Rail confirming the upcoming weekend closures for electrification works to continue. There are OLE masts in various places, although it's clear that there's still a bit of work to do –*that said, most of the civils seem to have been completed.

It's a shame that there were delays during the eight-month blockade, but at the end of the day it'll be worth it –*the line is essentially unusable at peak times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is this Route still being converted to electric traction . Or have Network Rail just "given up " on this .
Around South Tottenham , it has been de-electrified . The previous electric route from the Lea Valley line to the Southbury Loop , had had its wires removed !
At Leyton Midland Road Station there is no sign of Electric.Wires etc .

Just what if anything is going on ??

I expect at the very least that the wiring over the two sets of points and crossovers will be arranged differently when the NLL becomes the main through electrified route. But they are probably upgrading to the new standards for stuff like tensioning equipment as well.

 

[plcd1]

Is this Route still being converted to electric traction . Or have Network Rail just "given up " on this .
Around South Tottenham , it has been de-electrified . The previous electric route from the Lea Valley line to the Southbury Loop , had had its wires removed !
At Leyton Midland Road Station there is no sign of Electric.Wires etc .

Just what if anything is going on ??

I trust that NR are learning a whole load of lessons from the problems they encountered during the blockade and have taken the required steps to ensure a smooth resumption and completion of works. They will also have had a considerable debate with their supply chain about costs and compensation. A similar debate will also have ensued with TfL and the DfT.

It seems that work is now resuming at weekends through June and July. That is going to be either starting to string wires or getting the masts and cross spans etc (don't know the current names) all in a state where wires can be strung. There are masts needed on the eastern "viaduct" end of the route and I assume NR will be aiming to get all of those in place pretty quickly.

The big unanswered question, due to election purdah, is what has been agreed in terms of more extensive closures to push the work to completion including the raising of the road bridge at Crouch Hill station. We probably have at least 10 days, possibly longer, before that news emerges from the hallowed portals of NR and TfL.

 

[Taunton]

Will they be using the original contractor, or a different one?

 

[BahrainLad]

Now that the election is over (well, until the next one) is there any update on this beyond the scheduled weekend closures over the summer? In the process of buying a house in the area and am interested in the potential improved transport links!

 

[Olaf]

Now that the election is over (well, until the next one) is there any update on this beyond the scheduled weekend closures over the summer? In the process of buying a house in the area and am interested in the potential improved transport links!

It is unlikely there will be a change of intent from the DfT or NR, however TfL is experiencing funding difficulties.

 

[plcd1]

Will they be using the original contractor, or a different one?

I can't be 100% certain but Murphy still seem to be involved. Their rail vehicles and mobile vertical platforms were back in their small compound on Ferry Lane E17 (beside Thames Water's place). On that basis I assume they are working on the electrification but whether they still have the same lead role as before is impossible to say from one small observation of plant.

 

[snowball]

The July Modern Railways says on p. 24 that though the problem bridge at Crouch Hill will need to be jacked up at some stage, this is not essential as a prerequisite for wiring or commissioning. It is only essential for future maintenance access, so it is not on the critical path for the start of electric services. It seems to say NR has obtained the necessary derogation.

 

[plcd1]

TfL have published a paper that is going to next week's Programmes and Investment Cttee.

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pic-20170628-item20-gospel-oak-barking.pdf

In short it says that

1. It's NR's mess.
2. TfL are not "happy".
3. TfL are claiming compensation for lost revenue / rail replacement costs.
4. More closures required in the Autumn. (no dates given)
5. TfL are conducting their own programme review of what NR are proposing to get the work to completion. This review is ongoing and results will only reach Cttee members just before next week's meeting.
6. Once the Cttee have taken a view on the review findings TfL will then seek a way forward with the DfT and NR.
7. Cost overrun risk is between NR and DfT. TfL's exposure is capped at the £25m contribution.
8. No indicative date for the start of electric services but there is a sense in the paper that TfL are expecting a delay.

 

[PreciousPasta]

TfL have published a paper that is going to next week's Programmes and Investment Cttee.

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pic-20170628-item20-gospel-oak-barking.pdf

Sounds like NR have really cocked up. As someone who uses this line frequently this is incredibly infuriating.
On the other hand that overground liveried 345 looks very nice indeed.