Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBLIN) electrification

[swt_passenger]

An item in RAIL magazine 820 (Feb 15-28) reports the B-GO Rail User Group as saying the civil engineering (as distinct from actual electrification works) mostly went well during the blockade. However it mentions breaches of sewers at Walthamstow while driving piles, and the discovery of insufficient clearance under the road bridge at Crouch Hill station.

A shame a RAIL journalist can't get the official line from Network Rail, rather than printing what is potentially little more than passenger opinion...

 

[plcd1]

A shame a RAIL journalist can't get the official line from Network Rail, rather than printing what is potentially little more than passenger opinion...

Hardly opinion. There are / were two sewer breaches - I've walked past the sites of both of them and saw the pipes and pumps working to stop the railway being covered in sewage. I don't know if they have since been repaired as I've not been down those roads since.

It is a fact that there is a clearance issue at Crouch Hill. Initial statements say the bridge will need to be raised but obviously that needs confirmation as does the timing of the work. It is also correct that the track lowering, bridge replacement and other civils were completed on time. IIRC there was a NR statement to that effect when the news of the delay to the actual electrification works emerged.

 

[Taunton]

Having some time to spare last Friday (March 31), and having read the notes here, I made a diversion to use this line from the Barking end and view progress.

It was worse than I thought. There isn't any wiring at all until the very last few metres at Gospel Oak. I had got the impression there would be sections missing, but really they haven't started. As the existing wiring round from Seven Sisters through South Tottenham has been removed (masts remain) the amount of wiring may have actually gone backwards.

Random masts erected at a some odd spots along the way, in the fashion that the GW electrification has pioneered, and further masts etc thrown down in the lineside landscaping.

I can quite understand why those who put up with the long closure are so hacked off with the lack of progress.

Have to say the diesel units, with their pleasant transverse 2+2 seating, much in facing bays, were a real positive, and aided viewing. The inward-facing perimeter seating of the Class 378 I used on from Gospel Oak are going to be a real backward step for passengers, cramped, and you can't see a thing out of them or have any idea of your surroundings, especially when passengers start to stand down the middle.

The platform "extension" works are also curious, because it is apparent as you stop every few minutes that the station platforms used to be way longer than what was maintained in recent years, and also what they are going to end up with. I think there used to be 8-car diesels on the line in the 1960s, and the lengthy parts of the longer platforms at each station which handled these remain, weed-strewn, crumbling brick, and fenced off. It's not been a platform lengthening task at all, just putting back (part) of what has been there all along. There also seemed to be a lot of the platform works still not finished - so much for all civils having been completed on time.

Also surprising was how well-filled the train was at 1030 on a weekday, throughout the journey. Busiest station seemed to be, surprisingly, Blackhorse Road.

 

[class303]

Also surprising was how well-filled the train was at 1030 on a weekday, throughout the journey. Busiest station seemed to be, surprisingly, Blackhorse Road.

Blackhorse Road busy due to popular victoria line connection. Trains are generally busy the whole line off peak and unbearable peak. hence the urgent need for the upgrade

 

[reddragon]

Hardly opinion. There are / were two sewer breaches - I've walked past the sites of both of them and saw the pipes and pumps working to stop the railway being covered in sewage. I don't know if they have since been repaired as I've not been down those roads since.

One fixed, one still not done yet of those two.

There are several other sewer breaches too yet to be fixed!

Looks like further route closures are being planned to fix the civils damage / incomplete works and to do the electrification works

 

[Mikey C]

Have to say the diesel units, with their pleasant transverse 2+2 seating, much in facing bays, were a real positive, and aided viewing. The inward-facing perimeter seating of the Class 378 I used on from Gospel Oak are going to be a real backward step for passengers, cramped, and you can't see a thing out of them or have any idea of your surroundings, especially when passengers start to stand down the middle.

If you can get a seat, the 172s must be some of the most comfortable urban stock in London, 2+2, well padded, line up well with windows.

I can understand why the 378s have the transverse seats, but they aren't a pleasant experience. The Underground S stock is better as they have bigger windows so you can at least see out

 

[plcd1]

Having some time to spare last Friday (March 31), and having read the notes here, I made a diversion to use this line from the Barking end and view progress.

It was worse than I thought. There isn't any wiring at all until the very last few metres at Gospel Oak. I had got the impression there would be sections missing, but really they haven't started. As the existing wiring round from Seven Sisters through South Tottenham has been removed (masts remain) the amount of wiring may have actually gone backwards.

The platform "extension" works are also curious, because it is apparent as you stop every few minutes that the station platforms used to be way longer than what was maintained in recent years, and also what they are going to end up with. I think there used to be 8-car diesels on the line in the 1960s, and the lengthy parts of the longer platforms at each station which handled these remain, weed-strewn, crumbling brick, and fenced off. It's not been a platform lengthening task at all, just putting back (part) of what has been there all along. There also seemed to be a lot of the platform works still not finished - so much for all civils having been completed on time.

Also surprising was how well-filled the train was at 1030 on a weekday, throughout the journey. Busiest station seemed to be, surprisingly, Blackhorse Road.

A couple of comments by way of reply.

There is also wiring into platform 1 at Barking which was done during the blockade.

While you're broadly correct about platforms there were a couple of places where more substantive work has been needed. WW Queens Rd was lowered and rebuilt although the old (higher) disused bits are still extant. Nothing has been done at Blackhorse Rd which is just long enough for 4 cars. Harringay Green Lanes and South Tottenham have both been extended with new construction necessary although there were some old foundations at the former which I believe have been reused to support the recent works.

Blackhorse Road is tremendously busy and resembles a hell hole in the peaks. It will struggle to cope if there is a substantial increase in patronage when the 4 car EMUs are in service. Looking at the recent Line User Group newsletter it seems TfL know there may be issues but there's no money to do anything.

 

[Taunton]

The track lowering through Walthamstow was indeed in evidence, probably about a mile, although I have to say again that the end result looks notably messy/untidy for a project where they had long term access.

I'm familiar with the civil engineering world. Was anyone surprised at the choice of the actual civil engineering main contractor?

 

[plcd1]

The track lowering through Walthamstow was indeed in evidence, probably about a mile, although I have to say again that the end result looks notably messy/untidy for a project where they had long term access.

I'm familiar with the civil engineering world. Was anyone surprised at the choice of the actual civil engineering main contractor?

From what I have read the main civil engineering works to lower tracks, replace bridges, re-inforce walls, recondition tracks and small scale works to platforms was all done within the blockade timescale. It seems that outsourcing the design work for the electrification was fraught with problems. Compounding this is a major supply / quality control problem with the component elements of the electrification kit. This was sourced from a company in Italy and is a major cause of the delays.

I've not seen it suggested that the use of Murphys to install the masts was a mistake. I'll qualify that slightly by saying that it's not been made clear (in public) whether the sewer breaches were the result of the design being wrong and the contractor following the design or errors on the part of the contractor. Bizarrely in the final 3 weeks of "extra" blockade there was a mass push to get masts erected and the suspension arms / hangers fitted. If only that pace had been possible earlier in the project we may well have got wires strung over a fair section of the route. We're not going to see much activity until after June when weekend closures become feasible again as works on the NLL line / GE Main line will be out of the way allowing freight to be diverted. We may find out more about future closures later this month / early May according to the User Group newsletter.

 

[Taunton]

... and small scale works to platforms was all done within the blockade timescale.

Afraid I have to disagree on that one. At the time of my journey last week it was apparent that a significant number of the platform extension works were just not finished.

If only that pace had been possible earlier in the project we may well have got wires strung over a fair section of the route

And that unfortunately seems to be true of a number of other TfL (and to an extent NR) projects in recent times with full closures, that you would expect at least an all-hands-to-the-pump approach to the basic programme, to minimise the closure time, where in fact there seems to be notably slow single-shift progress as the months roll by. Often caused by the lead in the programme being left to the contractor instead of managed by the client. During the closure, how much work was done on Friday afternoons?

 

[plcd1]

Afraid I have to disagree on that one. At the time of my journey last week it was apparent that a significant number of the platform extension works were just not finished.

On reflection you're right in that some work was outstanding at most locations but the substantive work was complete in most places barring Harringay Green Lanes. I understand it was minor lighting and signage and snagging that was outstanding at most "extension" sites.

 

[Class 170101]

From Rail Technology Magazine

Electrification work on the London Overground between Gospel Oak and Barking is expected to be delayed even further after Network Rail confirmed earlier this year that work would not be finished on schedule.

Though the infrastructure owner was unable to comment on exactly when works would be complete, TfL director of London Rail Jonathan Fox confirmed that “a number of options are being considered and we will make a more detailed announcement in due course when Network Rail can assure us that plans to complete the delayed works are robust”.

He added: “We continue to work with Network Rail to understand how they will complete the remaining work to electrify the Gospel Oak to Barking Line with the absolute minimum further disruption to our customers.”

Work finally began in July last year, and was meant to be finished by the end of next month, but errors, including incorrect designs and late delivery of the masts to carry the power cables, have led to the completion date of the project being pushed back.

The line was closed for six months in September last year to accommodate for the ambitious upgrade, but today’s news may well mean that commuters will have to wait even longer for the work to be completed.

Gospel Oak to Barking line electrification map

Caroline Pidgeon, Lib Dem member of the London Assembly and leader of its transport committee, said that between TfL and Network Rail something had gone seriously wrong with the electrification of the line.

“This has been increasingly clear for many months. Passengers were promised a year ago that the upgrade work would be finally completed by the end of June 2017,” she explained.

“A year later, Network Rail is now blatantly seeking to use the general election as a fig leaf to cover up their incompetence.”

Not looking good for GOB Wiring

 

[zn1]

perhaps they can ask messers clarkson, hammond and may to come in and do it...

i mean putting up overhead power lines for a railway ....how hard can it be??

this is a tad of a cock up - the Resident engineers need a bit of a telling off dont they

 

[D365]

this is a tad of a cock up - the Resident engineers need a bit of a telling off dont they

Why is it always that engineers are first in the line of fire? Are they supposed to be a symbol of antipathy on the railways?

 

[Domh245]

I'm guessing that the options being considered include getting the West Anglia 710s delivered before the Watford DC/GOBLIN units whilst Network Rail try to get something together?

 

[Taunton]

The whole reason you have a main contractor is to pull together and schedule all the various suppliers and subcontractors required for the job. That's what they do. The main contractor will often have only management and supervisory staff, and subcontract all the operatives out.

Here, as described in my trip report above, we had incomplete masts, no wires, incomplete platforms, supposedly complete works left a mess, you name it. You can't blame all that on clearance problems at one bridge. Now they can't even seem to put together a revised plan with dates to finish the works.

I did have high hopes from Sir Peter Hendy being appointed to head up Network Rail. He was always pretty good at telling it like it is, but unfortunately seems to have disappeared into the NR mush.

 

[Mikey C]

To think that everyone was "annoyed" that the 172s would be operating under the wires, rather than TfL using temporary electric stock before the 710s arrives...

The silence seems deafening, Sadiq doesn't seem to have said anything either

 

[plcd1]

I think we need to understand what has prompted this. This looks like the line user group using its long established technique of prodding politicians like Ms Pidgeon to go into faux outrage mode. She of all people knows full well that the General Election and associated purdah period has put the kybosh on TfL and Network Rail saying anything meaningful. This is mostly a DfT funded scheme and you won't be getting anything out of the DfT and / or Network Rail until after the election. City Hall and the London Assembly are similarly in silent mode with all meetings cancelled. TfL has had to cancel / postpone its Board meetings and that affects the publication of the annual report and various other important initiatives.

If NR are running a little late in being able to confirm and agree with TfL that it has a viable programme *and* the required specialist resources then I'm not exactly upset about that. The fundamental point here is that whatever is done next ensures that the work is completed as expected and that it doesn't go wrong. There are undoubtedly very complex issues to unravel here especially as there are other projects like Crossrail that TfL will not countenance being late as a result of delays elsewhere. We must also remember that the timing of the GOBLIN electrification was such that it really only had one "slot" or otherwise the work was lost altogether. Given we have a lot of kit installed the sensible thing now is to complete the work although I suspect the commercial consequences for NR are horrendous. Quite why anyone thinks this is a "simple" problem to solve given all the parties involved and the need to reroute freight trains etc I just don't know. Yes NR got into a mess but that doesn't mean it takes a "click of the fingers" to get to a viable solution.

TfL will also be feeling not a little "fed up" because any further delays will start affecting their ability to meet their (and Arriva's) obligations to Bombardier in the Adventra rolling stock supply contract.

 

[zn1]

personally id be looking at the Short term solution would be lob some surplus 313/315 or even some 319s on the goblin until the new fleets are available, once the string is up of course, and if anything gonna bed in the wiring and find failures in it it will be the old school units

 

[D365]

personally id be looking at the Short term solution would be lob some surplus 313/315 or even some 319s on the goblin until the new fleets are available, once the string is up of course, and if anything gonna bed in the wiring and find failures in it it will be the old school units

How is that going to help put the wires up? Delivery of the Class 710s isn't the issue here.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

How is that going to help put the wires up? Delivery of the Class 710s isn't the issue here.

Correct - and it is not as if there are loads of spare resources standing around under employed. If you pull them from elsewhere that delays another scheme.

OT - IMHO- carry on all electrification but set realistic timetables. If some MP demands that "Little Slapton-on-the-marsh to Timbuktu gets electrified" say no - or -if you do that scheme xyz suffers" . It is starting to get really silly and with a General Election in the heady mix cooler heads need to prevail.

 

[reddragon]

The GOBLIN team was mostly disbanded just after the end of the possession and moved onto their next jobs, leaving a caretaker to cover the job until a solution is reached. No idea how they could resource finishing this!

At least the second sewer was fixed last week and the mast moved over.

 

[plcd1]

The GOBLIN team was mostly disbanded just after the end of the possession and moved onto their next jobs, leaving a caretaker to cover the job until a solution is reached. No idea how they could resource finishing this!

At least the second sewer was fixed last week and the mast moved over.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the team was mostly disbanded - makes sense on one level. However it will cause issues when they come to remobilise as it's doubtful they can re-use the same resources (assuming they wanted to!).

 

[plcd1]

Correct - and it is not as if there are loads of spare resources standing around under employed. If you pull them from elsewhere that delays another scheme.

OT - IMHO- carry on all electrification but set realistic timetables. If some MP demands that "Little Slapton-on-the-marsh to Timbuktu gets electrified" say no - or -if you do that scheme xyz suffers" . It is starting to get really silly and with a General Election in the heady mix cooler heads need to prevail.

Agree that resources are spread thin and I see NR have announced the imminent start of piling for electrification between Kettering and Corby.

I thought the government and DfT had now consigned electrification to the deep freeze with only parts of the GWML and MML and North West schemes being continued. I've lost track of what's happening in Scotland. I thought everything else was kicked so far into the distance or supplanted by use of bi-modes that election promises are unlikely to be a factor in the short - medium, and possibly, long term?

 

[snowball]

I thought the government and DfT had now consigned electrification to the deep freeze with only parts of the GWML and MML and North West schemes being continued. I've lost track of what's happening in Scotland. I thought everything else was kicked so far into the distance or supplanted by use of bi-modes that election promises are unlikely to be a factor in the short - medium, and possibly, long term?

Much of this is rumour. We won't know until the HLOS for CP6 is published. The bits of GW that were put on hold (I forget the official term) at the end of 2016 are ones that had already been pushed back out of CP5. Scotland is continuing with its plans.

 

[goblinuser]

Hello everyone. Just signed up to say that with all these issues perhaps electrification was not the right solution for this line. The user group has been recommending electrification as a solution for decades, yet many people don't fully understand it and think it is the only means to more capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with electrification, perhaps all we needed were some new coaches from Bombardier to add to the class 172s. Am I wrong to see this as a better solution? Cheers

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hello everyone. Just signed up to say that with all these issues perhaps electrification was not the right solution for this line. The user group has been recommending electrification as a solution for decades, yet many people don't fully understand it and think it is the only means to more capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with electrification, perhaps all we needed were some new coaches from Bombardier to add to the class 172s. Am I wrong to see this as a better solution? Cheers

There are short term solutions and long term solutions. Most of the infrastructure was/is Victorian and some renewal was ideal (needed?) anyway. Freight trains are ideally electrical powered for environment too. Long term electrification was the best bet for electrically hauled freight. It just hit the perfect storm of problems which have been well documented elsewhere. Long term - electrification is best in so many ways.

 

[ac6000cw]

Hello everyone. Just signed up to say that with all these issues perhaps electrification was not the right solution for this line. The user group has been recommending electrification as a solution for decades, yet many people don't fully understand it and think it is the only means to more capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with electrification, perhaps all we needed were some new coaches from Bombardier to add to the class 172s. Am I wrong to see this as a better solution? Cheers

It isn't just about GOBLIN passenger trains, it's also about moving electrically-hauled freight from the North London Line (so they can run more passenger trains on that line).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I haven't travelled on the line since the heritage DMUs (115s?) and in terms of mileage, it's not that long in real terms.

Is this just bad planning overall, an oversight on time-span or poor efficiency by the contractors?

The longer the project is delayed, what's already in place is liable to be non-compatible with the latest components etc

 

[goblinuser]

It isn't just about GOBLIN passenger trains, it's also about moving electrically-hauled freight from the North London Line (so they can run more passenger trains on that line).

I thought diesel locos were simply used when going over the GOBLIN and it was not an issue. However, freeing up space on the NLL is not something I considered. That definitely is quite a good reason to electrify the GOBLIN.