London Bridge reconstruction works

[physics34]

Right by Shipwrights Arms, on the other side of Bermondsey St.

oh, thanks

 

[FOH]

I think that's just temporary, according to twitter it will reopen on Monday.

I think from the planning application, it appeared the bridge and passageway would stay as it's where the fire escapes kick out, but it'll only be useful for getting to the terminal platforms, unless you fancy a very roundabout walk compared to using the new Tooley Street entrance.

It was still firmly closed this morning at 9am. I presume the engineering works overran as there were plenty of orange jackets around.

 

[ijmad]

It was still firmly closed this morning at 9am. I presume the engineering works overran as there were plenty of orange jackets around.

It appears to be open today, as is the bridge over Tooley Street to the Cottons Centre after a few months of that being completely closed.

Just a day late, suppose that's not so bad for something that isn't exactly critical.

 

[ijmad]

No James Nelson videos... no #behindthehoardings tweets, and my commute has changed to a new office so I don't go through London Bridge most mornings now. Sadness.

 

[Geogregor]

No James Nelson videos... no #behindthehoardings tweets, and my commute has changed to a new office so I don't go through London Bridge most mornings now. Sadness.

There is a new James Nelson video, posted today

 

[ijmad]

There is a new James Nelson video, posted today

Yeah - apparently the lack of photos/videos from the Thameslink project is due to purdah rules and they'll be publishing them again after June 8th. Surprised they're covered by them as it doesn't seem like a hugely political project!

 

[Blindtraveler]

More like a political disaster if as predicted the 24TPH through the core is unachievable.

 

[ijmad]

More like a political disaster if as predicted the 24TPH through the core is unachievable.

Who's predicting it will fail, ooi?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Theres a good few on the forum for starters and on my last TL journey a few weeks ago I shared a swetty corner of a 319 with a chap who also thinks theyr asking for trouble. If we are all proved wrong it will be a service to be proud of

 

[redbutton]

Who's predicting it will fail, ooi?

It's a view pretty widely shared among front-line staff who actually deal with the trains and the general public. 24tph relies on every piece of the system working with absolute precision to the tightest of timings. That includes the general public, who work to nobody's timetable but their own, and the class 700 units, which AFAIK haven't had a single day without at least one unit losing time to technical faults.

I expect it to be a similar result to the London Bridge 10-15 opening back in January 2015. Computer models designed to fulfill a political goal rather than the realities on the ground resulted in absolute chaos and a less ambitious remedial timetable being imposed.

 

[Sunset route]

It's a view pretty widely shared among front-line staff who actually deal with the trains and the general public. 24tph relies on every piece of the system working with absolute precision to the tightest of timings. That includes the general public, who work to nobody's timetable but their own, and the class 700 units, which AFAIK haven't had a single day without at least one unit losing time to technical faults.

I expect it to be a similar result to the London Bridge 10-15 opening back in January 2015. Computer models designed to fulfill a political goal rather than the realities on the ground resulted in absolute chaos and a less ambitious remedial timetable being imposed.

I still think platform island 4/5 will suffer from crowd control problems once the full timetable commences and I have to agree with you on one point, none of my colleagues that I work with believe that the new timetable will work.

 

[FOH]

I see London Bridge reconstruction has won infrastructure project of the year under "Greatest Contribution to London".
That certainly makes me fear for other projects around London if they can't beat a building which has leaked like a sieve requiring swathes of the concourse to be sealed off and barrier lines protected with tarpaulins. Also, not forgetting the contribution to employment with the bloke sitting outside of the lift.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I see London Bridge reconstruction has won infrastructure project of the year under "Greatest Contribution to London".
That certainly makes me fear for other projects around London if they can't beat a building which has leaked like a sieve requiring swathes of the concourse to be sealed off and barrier lines protected with tarpaulins. Also, not forgetting the contribution to employment with the bloke sitting outside of the lift.

Ahhh well does mean that Southern should receive awards for Excellence in Customer Service

 

[ijmad]

It's a view pretty widely shared among front-line staff who actually deal with the trains and the general public. 24tph relies on every piece of the system working with absolute precision to the tightest of timings. That includes the general public, who work to nobody's timetable but their own, and the class 700 units, which AFAIK haven't had a single day without at least one unit losing time to technical faults.

I expect it to be a similar result to the London Bridge 10-15 opening back in January 2015. Computer models designed to fulfill a political goal rather than the realities on the ground resulted in absolute chaos and a less ambitious remedial timetable being imposed.

Fair enough. 24tph through single platforms in the core does seem a bit optimistic regardless of how many doors the 700s have. The proposed 16tph through London Bridge doesn't seem as manic but I guess getting the timings right in to the core will make things far tighter in practice. Suppose we'll see next year!

 

[coppercapped]

Fair enough. 24tph through single platforms in the core does seem a bit optimistic regardless of how many doors the 700s have. The proposed 16tph through London Bridge doesn't seem as manic but I guess getting the timings right in to the core will make things far tighter in practice. Suppose we'll see next year!

I would suggest that the single platforms are not the limiting factor. After all the Victoria Line is, or shortly will be, running 36 trains per hour (and other London tube lines are pretty close behind) all with single platforms per direction.

The Victoria Line is a simple end-to-end route while Thameslink has junctions close to both ends of the core - one of these being a flat junction. Thameslink's frequency will be more limited by these junctions, its interactions with other, non-Thameslink services and limited train speeds than by the single platforms alone.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Do not worry 24TPH through the core is bound to work - sometimes.

I agree that the flat junction to the South of Blackfriars will be the bottleneck although there is room to juggle trains a bit.

I think the big risk is one or more outer ends of routes being disrupted and quite possibly by non-Thameslink trains. It will get better when (*IF*) East Croydon gets its extra two platforms - my assumption based on the length of the new footbridge and the strip of adjacent land not developed. Then they can terminate errant Thameslink services and send them away from the core.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is there any firm proposals or funding for said platforms? Off topic I appologise but saves a new thread for literally 1 question

 

[infobleep]

Did the work at London Bridge have to stop whilst the police investigation went on yesterday?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there any firm proposals or funding for said platforms? Off topic I appologise but saves a new thread for literally 1 question

Firm proposals (for the two new platforms at East Croydon - in the space mentioned) are a significant part of the NR Sussex route study published proposals. This would allow separate routes and platforms for fast trains to Victoria and London Bridge/Thameslink.

They also include some pretty massive changes to give full fast line grade separation and a sixth track immediately north of East Croydon, under the umbrella title of Windmill Hill junctions.

Funding wise NR want both to be included in CP6 as high priority items; obviously CP6 funding is up in the air as discussed in other threads.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks for this. A lot of admitedly expensive but worth while and major improvements within easy reach and not to much work compared to some projects.

CP6 funding may or may not come clearer post election

 

[coppercapped]

Thanks for this. A lot of admitedly expensive but worth while and major improvements within easy reach and not to much work compared to some projects.

CP6 funding may or may not come clearer post election

There may, or may not be, a dedicated CP6 thread somewhere to which this post properly belongs, but to make a quick response to this post it is almost certain that the CP6 agreement will be restricted to operations, maintenance and renewals only. All funding for future projects for enhancements (electrifications, flying junctions, station rebuilds and so on) will be agreed separately when the costs have been fully estimated and so will not appear in the CP6 agreement. CP6 agreements will largely be on a route basis rather than be made globally for NR as a whole.

The future will not be like the recent past...

 

[Blindtraveler]

Cheers.

Now do carry on about LBG

 

[Minstral25]

I would suggest that the single platforms are not the limiting factor. After all the Victoria Line is, or shortly will be, running 36 trains per hour (and other London tube lines are pretty close behind) all with single platforms per direction.

The Victoria Line is a simple end-to-end route while Thameslink has junctions close to both ends of the core - one of these being a flat junction. Thameslink's frequency will be more limited by these junctions, its interactions with other, non-Thameslink services and limited train speeds than by the single platforms alone.

My view is that the platforms will be a problem. The difference from the Victoria line is that on the Victoria line the trains only go to one destination at a time. So everybody gets on whatever train is there.

At London Bridge a peak Redhill line train for example currently will be full and standing 10 minutes before departure. Having all those people standing on the platform instead waiting for the train to arrive whilst other similarly full train loads of passengers for East Grinstead, Littlehampton and Brighton wait on that same platform is a recipe for delays and difficulties.

My prediction is that 24tph will be fine, getting the passengers onto the platforms for the trains at peak will not.

 

[theageofthetra]

Looking at the construction of platform 1 has anyone seen any images of what the wall on the Tooley St side of P1 will look like?- I would hope it is high enough to stop anyone climbimg over or lobbing a bottle onto pedestrians below.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looking at the construction of platform 1 has anyone seen any images of what the wall on the Tooley St side of P1 will look like?- I would hope it is high enough to stop anyone climbimg over or lobbing a bottle onto pedestrians below.

There's a number of videos that show the finished Tooley St side fully glazed above the brick panels.

Planning drawings suggest that the escalator and cut-outs in the floor will be almost the entire length over the concourse, the 'back' of the platform behind the escalators looks as though it may not be accessible in any case.

 

[ijmad]

At street level, the glazed wall will be straight and butted up against where the Platform 1 stairs/escalator voids are, but there is a structure in front of this that is curved and will have supporting pillars that descend down to street level to support it, the area between the glazed wall and the pillars being described as the 'Station Colonade' in the plans.

At Platform level the glazing matches the straight line at street level, and is immediately behind the stair/escalator voids - you won't be able to walk behind the stairwell void as you can on Platform 15 (or rather, you will be able to once the hoardings finally come down there...), as that area will be outside the glazing on the Platform 1 design.

Relevant planning documents are here, for those who haven't found this link before:
http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk/documents/?casereference=11/AP/1987&system=DC

Attached are plans of the Tooley St elevation and the plan view of the street once finished from those plans.

 

[ijmad]

Here is a screenshot from the video that makes the design even clearer.

 

[ijmad]

Went on a little behind the scenes tour today. Here's some Platform 1 & entrance photos from behind the Great Wall of Costain.







Some tidbits:
- The Platform 1 roof will be finished in a few weeks time
- All of the escalators & stairs are now in place except for Platform 1's
- The last crane will be staying until near the end of the reconstruction
- The programme is more or less on schedule

In other news, a straight route is now open through the Western Arcade. All the way from the concourse to Joiner Street. It's only one set of arches wide rather than the eventual three, but certainly progress!

 

[SF-02]

And the service to the Greenwich line from that platform will be drastically worse than what existed before work begun!

 

[FOH]

And the service to the Greenwich line from that platform will be drastically worse than what existed before work begun!

Same for us all mate