Manchester Arena Incident (22/05/2017)

[Bletchleyite]

Very very easily. You put concrete bollards up every so many metres so a vehicle has no chance of getting up speed. No hindrance at all.

On every pavement in the country?

At what cost?

Bollards are of course put on pavements in areas of very high risk. Network Rail is particularly fond of them.

 

[EM2]

Very very easily. You put concrete bollards up every so many metres so a vehicle has no chance of getting up speed. No hindrance at all.

On every pavement, in every town? How much will it cost, how long will it take, how much disruption will it cause while it's being done?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Very very easily. You put concrete bollards up every so many metres so a vehicle has no chance of getting up speed. No hindrance at all.

On every pavement in the UK? Nice joke! What about bits of road that don't have a pavement where pedestrians are expected to walk in the road?

 

[Antman]

According the the "Wales on Line" site, the Quadrant Shopping Centre in Swansea was closed for a time this afternoon due to a suspicious package being discovered but which, fortunately, turned out to be a hoax. The perpetrator was traced and arrested. This sick person deserves to have the book thrown at him.

I don't know the details but from what you've said the idiot responsible may well be looking at a custodial.

 

[Dave1987]

On every pavement in the country?

At what cost?

Bollards are of course put on pavements in areas of very high risk. Network Rail is particularly fond of them.

You put them on pavements with high footfall. Have you seen the crash barriers around the Houses of Parliament? They can stop trucks. Yet we have no basic protection against even cars on busy pavements.

 

[DarloRich]

Very very easily. You put concrete bollards up every so many metres so a vehicle has no chance of getting up speed. No hindrance at all.

no problem. We can stop a car or truck attack now. They adapt. We counter. They adapt.

 

[Antman]

You put them on pavements with high footfall. Have you seen the crash barriers around the Houses of Parliament? They can stop trucks. Yet we have no basic protection against even cars on busy pavements.

There are bollards that would stop a vehicle in many places in London but we have to be realistic, they can't be everywhere.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There are bollards that would stop a vehicle in many places in London but we have to be realistic, they can't be everywhere.

They don't need to be everywhere. As Dave1987 said, high footfall. Meaning Vicar Lane, Leeds and not the unclassified Bradford-on-Tone to Wivvy road. :roll:

 

[PHILIPE]

According the the "Wales on Line" site, the Quadrant Shopping Centre in Swansea was closed for a time this afternoon due to a suspicious package being discovered but which, fortunately, turned out to be a hoax. The perpetrator was traced and arrested. This sick person deserves to have the book thrown at him.

Further to this, HTV Wales News this evening reported necessary to evacuate the Bus Station and Indoor Market also. An eye witness saw the man running away with 7 cops chasing him and shouting "I've got a bomb"

 

[Groningen]

Word is that the Manchester fire service only could come into action 90 minutes after the attack. Paramedics screamed for them to help out, but were not allowed to. Meanwhile they watched televison to see what was happening.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ghters-infuriated-after-were-stopped-13087703

Firefighters have spoken of their “shame” after being held back by bosses from helping victims of the Arena bomb.

No crews arrived at the scene until 90 minutes after the 10.33 attack.

Firefighters have told the M.E.N. they were aware that paramedics were in urgent need of back up in the aftermath of the bomb which left 22 dead and 120 injured but were prevented from going in.

Eventually five appliances were dispatched, but by then all of the dangerous work of entering the blasted Arena foyer to tend to badly hurt and dying victims had been done.

Now Greater Manchester Mayor, Andy Burnham who has responsibility for Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service, is considering ordering an independent review into decision making by brigade managers on the night of the attack....

 

[yorkie]

Innocent ordinary people including children are killed. Military personnel deployed to protect...... Buckingham Palace and Westminster!! It's clear who really matters in this country and it isn't ordinary people. As long as the politicians and Royals are protected eh. If little George had been killed there would be hell to pay. Give it a few days and all these extra police will disappear again. Why does it take the slaughter of innocent children for politicians to wake up and stop worrying about themselves and their own lives.

This has to be one of the most bizarre posts I've ever read. What would you do to fee up police if it was up to you?

The Royals and senior politicians get round the clock protection. What do innocent children get? Kind words after they have been killed. Sorry but seeing innocent people get killed while politicians are worried about themselves in their own little bubble really annoys me. After the Westminster attack the extra policing lasted about a day or so. Yet the politicians demanded a review into the policing at Westminster, the most closely guarded bit of land in the entire country. People who matter are guarded 24/7 the rest are seemingly expendable.

Again, very bizarre thing to say. What do you think could be done, that isn't being done?

With the Westminster attack the assailant was able to mow down, kill and injure innocent people on the bridge before managing to get a matter of feet inside the palace of Westminster before being shot dead. In the aftermath all that was talked about was reviewing the security at the Westminster to ensure MPs remained safe. I don't remember a single mention of why a vehicle was allowed to travel at speed down the pavement. It was all about the MPs and reviewing their safety. And now we have an utterly appalling attack on innocent children.

And how would you prevent vehicles travelling on pavements? Are you seriously suggesting vehicle-proof barriers on all pavements?

 

[BestWestern]

I don't know the details but from what you've said the idiot responsible may well be looking at a custodial.

I certainly hope so. Aside from the sheer idiocy, which itself ought to be punishable, there is a very substantial cost involved in clearing a city centre, which also diverts precious resources away from more pressing tasks. Plus of course there is massive inconvenience to the public in general, which also warrants a harsh penalty. A year inside ought to focus his mind.

 

[Zoidberg]

According the the "Wales on Line" site, the Quadrant Shopping Centre in Swansea was closed for a time this afternoon due to a suspicious package being discovered but which, fortunately, turned out to be a hoax. The perpetrator was traced and arrested. This sick person deserves to have the book thrown at him.

I don't know the details but from what you've said the idiot responsible may well be looking at a custodial.

I certainly hope so. Aside from the sheer idiocy, which itself ought to be punishable, there is a very substantial cost involved in clearing a city centre, which also diverts precious resources away from more pressing tasks. Plus of course there is massive inconvenience to the public in general, which also warrants a harsh penalty. A year inside ought to focus his mind.

Here's the BBC report,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-40032656

A man has been arrested following the evacuation of Swansea's Quadrant shopping centre after reports of a suspicious package "turned out to be a hoax".

Swansea's Indoor Market and bus station were also closed but officers reopened affected areas just before 17:00 BST.

South Wales Police had received reports of a suspect package at about 14:00.
They said the incident had caused "significant disruption".

Bus operator First Cymru said services were returning to normal but delays may continue.
A police spokesman said: "While we ask people to be vigilant, we will take robust action against anyone who causes significant disruption through hoax activity."

Yay for "robust action"!

 

[Domh245]

In addition of my post at 19.53. This article is in Dutch however and is coming from de Telegraaf.

The headline is: Fireservice Manchester angry.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/28237188/__Brandweer_Manchester_boos__.html

It surprises me that this story is not given in the British media than.

It seems to be the case that the fire service didn't go in until the area was declared safe - which I think is a standard protocol for this kind of scenario.

 

[Gathursty]

I think this tragic incident will sadly repeat itself at some point in the future as certain sections of society tie themselves up in knots in trying to poorly balance the rights of those to profess their beliefs/views versus upholding British Values in the background of trying to avoid being called an Islamophobe/xenophobe/racist.

Equally, there are problems in how the British dealt with immigration ever since the Empire Windrush last dropped off migrants. We didn't help to integrate, mainly castigate, jeer and abuse certain minorities as they appeared different and as such, those minorities stuck together in communities that can generally be synonymous with whole towns and suburbs (Tottenham, Burnley, Dewsbury, Broughton) Nowadays, bad characters in all backgrounds can hide within their own areas easily as it is hidden in plain sight.

The third factor is those who wish us harm themselves. They see Western policy as generally Satan's to-do list. We cosy upto the likes of Saudi Arabia because without them, we have no oil which allows disturbing views on the world to filter in and sadly confuse some Islamic youth. Our politicians' failure to work together much better on combining a strong military strategy with a collaborative diplomatic policy has stymied and held back countries such as Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and Israel in turn bringing massive feelings of resentment towards the West who they see as being rich, naive, destructive and simply hating Islam.

I hope heads can be banged together but I think it will be an uphill struggle, especially considering no-one wants to sanction Saudi Arabia for fearing of losing all their oil.

 

[AlterEgo]

Here's the BBC report,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-40032656



Yay for "robust action"!

In London I observed the Parachute Regiment and some of the Foot Guards (possibly Grenadiers) at Parliament. He should count himself lucky he did this in Swansea and not London. The atmosphere was a bit strange in London today.

 

[Dave1987]

There are bollards that would stop a vehicle in many places in London but we have to be realistic, they can't be everywhere.

We can have them in areas of high footfall.

 

[Groningen]

Theresa May is dismayed that pictures of the bomb were printed/shown in the New York Times. TM is going to talk about with Donald Trump.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210

Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing was apparently leaked to US media.
UK officials were "furious" when photos appearing to show debris from the attack appeared in the New York Times.

Who took the pictures and how were they leaked?

 

[yorkie]

We can have them in areas of high footfall.

Come to York one day and show me where you would put them!

 

[Domh245]

Theresa May is dismayed that pictures of the bomb were printed/shown in the New York Times. TM is going to talk about with Donald Trump.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210

Who took the pictures and how were they leaked?

My understanding is that the pictures will have been taken by the investigating police at the scene, and then shared with the US intelligence services as that is standard protocol. Unfortunately, the US intelligence services currently leak like a sieve for a variety of reasons, so these details are then distributed to the american press who go with them for the "scoop"

 

[Groningen]

The name of the attacker was first mentioned in the USA. So even before the UK made it public.

 

[DarloRich]

Theresa May is dismayed that pictures of the bomb were printed/shown in the New York Times. TM is going to talk about with Donald Trump.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210

Who took the pictures and how were they leaked?

they look like standard crime scene pictures taken by a police photographer as is standard.

 

[me123]

Well the US would go hysterical if one of our publications had done the same thing with their classified information. Entirely appropriate for us to be suitably angry with the Americans for mishandling sensitive data, and if indeed the US intelligence services are as porous as "Domh245" suggests then we should have no issues in withholding the data from them until such a time as it becomes public knowledge.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

BBC is now reporting that Greater Manchester Police have, very understandably, ceased sharing information with the US until this issue is resolved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

BBC is now reporting that Greater Manchester Police have, very understandably, ceased sharing information with the US until this issue is resolved.

I think this shows the US at present is not to be trusted

 

[Bletchleyite]

We can have them in areas of high footfall.

Then they'll attack in areas of lower footfall. We plug a hole, they find another one.

Airport security in the US for example is now not the sieve it was pre-9/11, which is why they have moved away from that.

 

[ExRes]

I think this shows the US at present is not to be trusted

I don't think the Americans are any different to anyone else, personally I think it has much more to do with the prevalence of social media and the desperation of so many people to be 'the first' with anything, regardless of the consequences. Yesterday the radio news was proud to announce that a police raid was taking place in Manchester and that other residents were unable to stop themselves from giving all the information they could on twitter and facebook, meanwhile parts of society are only too happy to have a go at the security forces for not doing enough to stop terrorism, fat chance when people are trying to scupper their every move

 

[ExRes]

We can have them in areas of high footfall.

I assume and hope that you mean throughout the entire country?

Shopping areas, sports facilities, railway stations, bus stations, cinemas, schools, office blocks? how about every road in holiday resorts?

A complete non starter

 

[Dave1987]

I assume and hope that you mean throughout the entire country?

Shopping areas, sports facilities, railway stations, bus stations, cinemas, schools, office blocks? how about every road in holiday resorts?

A complete non starter

So we just have to wait until the next nut job ploughs into another crowd of innocent people, more kind words, more police presence for a day or two....

Yeah as long as the important people are protected.... :roll:

 

[AlterEgo]

So we just have to wait until the next nut job ploughs into another crowd of innocent people, more kind words, more police presence for a day or two....

Yeah as long as the important people are protected.... :roll:

Well what do you suggest? Spending £billions on putting bollards on every pedestrian thoroughfare?