TFL - Caught by Revenue Inspector, help please....

[SandyGarg]

Dear Sir,

Last week I was travelling from west drayton (west london) to shepherd bush station and I was caught by the Revenue Inspector at the shepherd bush station as I stupidly used my tesco club card to touch out instead of oyster card as both were in the same pocket. I also forgot to touch in at west drayton as I was getting late and ran to board the train as there are no barriers.

I apologized the inspector and then I showed him my oyster card, he looked at the history and found out the last time I used the card was 6 months back. I told him that I mainly work from home and don't come to city too often. He then grilled me for 15 mins, took all the notes about name, contact number and address where the oyster card is registered etc, read out my rights, get the notes signed by me and let me go out without giving me any penalty fare. He said they will communicate further and I will get copy of these notes as well.

Later on I realized that my oyster card was registered at the OLD address (moved to new address 6 months back) and wondering when they will write to me, it will go to the old address. I then called TFL customer service and got my address updated and explained them the whole situation. They advised me that if I was caught then I should have received the penalty fare there n then and if they let me go out without PF there is nothing to worry and I should simply ignore the incident, which I don't think is a great advice.

Now I did bit of googling and really worried after seeing so many people have been criminally prosecuted due to fare evasion by TFL.

Please advice me

1. How can I contact Revenue Inspector and tell them about my new address so that any communication from them should come to me instead of going to old address?

2. What are my options about the above incident and how can I avoid criminal conviction and do out of court settlement as Criminal record will severely affect my current career and any future job prospects?

3. How long they generally take to send any written communication to me.

This is the first time that this has happened to me and I am really stressed about the whole situation.

Many Thanks.

Sandy

 

[yorkie]

Talk of a Penalty Fare is not relevant to your case, which relates to a probable prosecution, so I don't know why they said that.

How much money was on your Oyster card? Presumably you caught a GWR train to Ealing Broadway and the Central Line from there. You missed two opportunities* to tap in before you were caught, so any excuse about not having time at West Drayton is, realistically, not going to be believable.

I don't think TfL/LU will settle the matter out of court, so you can either appoint a solicitor to defend you and plead not guilty (this could cost a lot of money) or alternatively you will be better off pleading guilty to minimise the fine. There is no point trying to represent yourself if you intend to plead not guilty.

As for whether it would affect job prospects, it would not do so in many cases but without knowing what jobs we are talking about, it is difficult to comment.

You can find their prosecutions policy here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecution-policy.pdf and FAQs here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fare-evasion-prosecution.pdf

(* Obviously it would not be permissible to only tap in at Ealing Broadway and not pay for the first part of your journey on GWR, but looking at it purely from TfL's point of view, any excuse about not paying from West Drayton isn't going to cut it when you also failed to tap in at Ealing Broadway)

 

[matt_world2004]

Dear Sir,

Last week I was travelling from west drayton (west london) to shepherd bush station and I was caught by the Revenue Inspector at the shepherd bush station as I stupidly used my tesco club card to touch out instead of oyster card as both were in the same pocket. I also forgot to touch in at west drayton as I was getting late and ran to board the train as there are no barriers.

I apologized the inspector and then I showed him my oyster card, he looked at the history and found out the last time I used the card was 6 months back. I told him that I mainly work from home and don't come to city too often. He then grilled me for 15 mins, took all the notes about name, contact number and address where the oyster card is registered etc, read out my rights, get the notes signed by me and let me go out without giving me any penalty fare. He said they will communicate further and I will get copy of these notes as well.

Later on I realized that my oyster card was registered at the OLD address (moved to new address 6 months back) and wondering when they will write to me, it will go to the old address. I then called TFL customer service and got my address updated and explained them the whole situation. They advised me that if I was caught then I should have received the penalty fare there n then and if they let me go out without PF there is nothing to worry and I should simply ignore the incident, which I don't think is a great advice.

Now I did bit of googling and really worried after seeing so many people have been criminally prosecuted due to fare evasion by TFL.

Please advice me

1. How can I contact Revenue Inspector and tell them about my new address so that any communication from them should come to me instead of going to old address?

2. What are my options about the above incident and how can I avoid criminal conviction and do out of court settlement as Criminal record will severely affect my current career and any future job prospects?

3. How long they generally take to send any written communication to me.

This is the first time that this has happened to me and I am really stressed about the whole situation.

Many Thanks.

Sandy

1.) Did the inspector ask you for your address or just take the address off the registered oyster card
2.) Were the gatelines open when you touched your clubcard on the reader.

 

[Master29]

If you touched out with your Tesco clubcard (easily enough done) by mistake I don`t understand why you didn`t tell them this at the time. As for the rest I think Yorkie answers pretty much everything.

 

[furlong]

I don't think TfL/LU will settle the matter out of court,

This is answered in the policy document:

10. Formal Warning
Where the offence involves fare evasion TfL may decide to issue an offender with a Formal Warning in lieu of prosecution, where it is deemed appropriate and the following conditions are met:
a. The offender admits the irregular travel and;
b. The risk of re-offending is considered minimal and;
c. The offender has provided TfL with sufficient mitigation against prosecution or in the opinion of the Prosecutions Manager it is not in the public interest to prosecute and;
d. The offender agrees to pay the legal costs incurred in the processing of the case file.

So you would need to satisfy all four of those conditions.

Was it just a normal Tesco Clubcard or a Tesco Clubcard Credit Card?

 

[SandyGarg]

Talk of a Penalty Fare is not relevant to your case, which relates to a probable prosecution, so I don't know why they said that.

How much money was on your Oyster card? Presumably you caught a GWR train to Ealing Broadway and the Central Line from there. You missed two opportunities* to tap in before you were caught, so any excuse about not having time at West Drayton is, realistically, not going to be believable.

I don't think TfL/LU will settle the matter out of court, so you can either appoint a solicitor to defend you and plead not guilty (this could cost a lot of money) or alternatively you will be better off pleading guilty to minimise the fine. There is no point trying to represent yourself if you intend to plead not guilty.

As for whether it would affect job prospects, it would not do so in many cases but without knowing what jobs we are talking about, it is difficult to comment.

You can find their prosecutions policy here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecution-policy.pdf and FAQs here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fare-evasion-prosecution.pdf

(* Obviously it would not be permissible to only tap in at Ealing Broadway and not pay for the first part of your journey on GWR, but looking at it purely from TfL's point of view, any excuse about not paying from West Drayton isn't going to cut it when you also failed to tap in at Ealing Broadway)

I had 13.90£ in oyster card and did not use it for roughly 6 months.

Yes I accept that it was a stupid mistake on my part not to touch at West Drayton and Ealing broadway.

I work as a junior BA in finance industry so having a criminal conviction on my record will definitely throw me out of industry as "criminal conviction - fare evasion" RED ALERT will come out of even in a basic CRB check. Hence it will be end of my career if I plead guilty.

My wife is also due to apply for Indefinite Leave To Remain (ILR) in UK at end of this year based on a spouse visa (I am British citizen) and having a criminal conviction on my record will even reject her application and it will be complete disaster if that happen.

Therefore the only option for me is to settle the matter out of court by paying the fine.

1.) Did the inspector ask you for your address or just take the address off the registered oyster card

He asked me where the card is registered and I gave him the old address as oyster card was still registered on old address. Later on I realised that I should have explained to them and MUST give them the current address as well. But I was so confused and frightened and it was the heat of moment that my mind simply stopped working for a while.

Is there anyway I can write to them about my current address now, so that any future communication should come to me.

2.) Were the gatelines open when you touched your clubcard on the reader.

Yeah when I touched the clubcard, the barrier were still open.

If you touched out with your Tesco clubcard (easily enough done) by mistake I don't understand why you didn't tell them this at the time. As for the rest I think Yorkie answers pretty much everything.

I did tell them on the spot that I wrongly used this card to touch out as both cards were is the same pocket.

 

[SandyGarg]

This is answered in the policy document:



So you would need to satisfy all four of those conditions.

Was it just a normal Tesco Clubcard or a Tesco Clubcard Credit Card?

Thanks furlong.

Do you also think TFL/LU will not settle the matter out of court?

It was a normal Tesco clubcard instead of credit card unfortunately.

 

[yorkie]

Without knowing exactly what evidence was gathered and exactly what was said and done, i don't think we could be in a position to accurately predict.

But, for sure, TfL/LU are much more likely to insist on proceeding with a prosecution than many National Rail Train Operating Companies, so your chances aren't great, based on what you've said here.

Appoint a really good solicitor to represent you, if it does go to court. It won't be cheap unfortunately.

National Rail TOCs will often settle if offered enough cash, even if the case against you is very solid, because they get to keep any money you offer. I've heard of cases where people have been prepared to pay £thousands. But TfL/LU's policy is different. Probably because they are publicly owned.

 

[SandyGarg]

Without knowing exactly what evidence was gathered and exactly what was said and done, i don't think we could be in a position to accurately predict.

But, for sure, TfL/LU are much more likely to insist on proceeding with a prosecution than many National Rail Train Operating Companies, so your chances aren't great, based on what you've said here.

Appoint a really good solicitor to represent you, if it does go to court. It won't be cheap unfortunately.

National Rail TOCs will often settle if offered enough cash, even if the case against you is very solid, because they get to keep any money you offer. I've heard of cases where people have been prepared to pay £thousands. But TfL/LU's policy is different. Probably because they are publicly owned.

Oh dear, I am really frustrated now and not sure what to do.

Could you please PM me with any good solicitor you are aware of?

 

[Fare-Cop]

Oh dear, I am really frustrated now and not sure what to do.

Could you please PM me with any good solicitor you are aware of?

It is best that none of us recommend any law firm personally

You need to contact a well respected solicitor either close to where you live, or close to the Court area where any case is likely to be heard. You need someone who specialises in criminal law.

If you cannot engage someone local to you, do an internet search for solicitors specialising in criminal defence and who include 'railways fare evasion' in their expertise.

It will not be a cheap exercise, but it's probably your best course of action if you want to minimise the risk of a conviction.

 

[SandyGarg]

It will not be a cheap exercise, but it's probably your best course of action if you want to minimise the risk of a conviction.

how much money we are talking here roughly?

I could not sleep, eat and work properly from the last 2 days......how can the life be so fragile that one stupid mistake makes your WHOLE life miserable?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Unfortunately "the railway" do not buy simple forgetness/absent-mindedness especially if you passed 2 opportunities to tap in. The railway could see that as deliberate intent to avoid paying.

I have no idea of how much these things cost, you will have to ask your solicitor. If you really want to avoid a prosecution "at all costs" then expect to spend a lot of money.

Seems unfair - but that's not how the railway/TFL see it

 

[najaB]

how much money we are talking here roughly?

It's impossible to give an accurate figure, but I'd expect it to be more than £250 and less than £750.

 

[SandyGarg]

If you really want to avoid a prosecution "at all costs" then expect to spend a lot of money.

spend lot of money to pay solicitor or to offer TFL ?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

spend lot of money to pay solicitor or to offer TFL ?

I don't know, but perhaps you could start by putting some money aside. I don't think it would do any harm to contact a solicitor expert in such matters and get an idea of legal costs

 

[SandyGarg]

It's impossible to give an accurate figure, but I'd expect it to be more than £250 and less than £750.

Oh really, I don't have that sort of money to pay solicitors just to draft a letter for me.

I know it was a one off mistake and I learnt my lesson and I have no other option but to try my best to convince TFL to accept out of court settlement.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Oh really, I don't have that sort of money to pay solicitors just to draft a letter for me.

I know it was a one off mistake and I learnt my lesson and I have no other option but to try my best to convince TFL to accept out of court settlement.

If you care that much to avoid possible prosecution then why you do a search on this section of the forum where members have posted up draft letters? Far cheaper than a solicitor . But far from it for me to say that I don't think you realise the gravity of your situation (should TFL pursue you).

Don't be lazy, do some proactive research and save some money should the inevitable happen

Or just hope you strike lucky and don't hear anything from TFL....however "if" you are this fortunate, then they've already got you on record and probably won't hesitate to pursue a prosecution next time you forget to tap in.

 

[najaB]

Oh really, I don't have that sort of money to pay solicitors just to draft a letter for me.

That's a similar amount as any fine that would be imposed - so you'd looking for that kind of money either way. One recent poster got very little change out of £1K in avoiding a court date.

 

[Far north 37]

i would contact tfl and explain the circumstances to them and explain you are willing to pay for any fares accrued i think they should realise you are genuine enough if you do

 

[SandyGarg]

That's a similar amount as any fine that would be imposed - so you'd looking for that kind of money either way. One recent poster got very little change out of £1K in avoiding a court date.

Exactly, if I have to spend 1K to avoid court, it makes more sense to pay TFL instead of paying to solicitor.

 

[SandyGarg]

i would contact tfl and explain the circumstances to them and explain you are willing to pay for any fares accrued i think they should realise you are genuine enough if you do

Thanks for the reply Far north.

I contacted TFL customer service 3 times and talk to 3 different persons within TFL so far. All of them told the same thing i.e. that revenue inspectors should give me the penalty fare at the spot and if nothing was given to me, just simply sit back until you hear back from them, if at all. They further confirmed there is no direct number or email address to reach Revenue prosecution department.

They also confirmed that there is no information on my account re wrong doing.

Only thing they have is IRCAS details which is to pay penalty fare.

Do you have any contact number or email address to reach Revenue prosecution department?

 

[Hadders]

You will need to wait for them to write to you and respond to that letter when it arrives. There's not really a way to short circuit it.

There's no entitlement to be issued a Penalty Fare. If the inspector suspects fare evasion rather than an honest mistake then they are correct to report you for consideration of prosecution.

 

[SandyGarg]

Don't be lazy, do some proactive research and save some money should the inevitable happen

Thanks for the reply Robert. Appreciate your time.

Gents, could you please proof read this letter for me?

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to express a sincere apology for my action on the April ** 2017.

I did not touch in when I entered the station as I was running very late to attend a meeting at the client site.

I also used the wrong card when I touched out at Shepherd Bush station and that was because both the Oyster card and tesco card were in the same pocket. I did show my registered Oyster card to the inspector and it did have enough money to cover the cost of travel.

I am extremely fearful of the potential consequences on my current and future employment as I work for financial clients and they take criminal conviction very seriously.

I am also extremely worried about the impact of me having a criminal conviction on my record to the extension of my wife's visa as Home office takes criminal conviction very seriously.

I want to assure you that I am feeling deeply ashamed and embarrassed with the whole situation. I am so sorry and I am disgusted with my behaviour on this occasion. I certainly learnt from the experience and will never let it happen again.

I would like to ask you to allow me to make the necessary compensation to your company. I kindly request you not to take any further action if I meet all reasonable costs of the matter so far?

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours faithfully,

 

[SandyGarg]

You will need to wait for them to write to you and respond to that letter when it arrives. There's not really a way to short circuit it.

How long they generally take to write after the incident?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks for the reply Robert. Appreciate your time.

Gents, could you please proof read this letter for me?

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to express a sincere apology for my action on the April ** 2017.

I did not touch in when I entered the station as I was running very late to attend a meeting at the client site.

I also used the wrong card when I touched out at Shepherd Bush station and that was because both the Oyster card and tesco card were in the same pocket. I did show my registered Oyster card to the inspector and it did have enough money to cover the cost of travel.

I am extremely fearful of the potential consequences on my current and future employment as I work for financial clients and they take criminal conviction very seriously.

I am also extremely worried about the impact of me having a criminal conviction on my record to the extension of my wife's visa as Home office takes criminal conviction very seriously.

I want to assure you that I am feeling deeply ashamed and embarrassed with the whole situation. I am so sorry and I am disgusted with my behaviour on this occasion. I certainly learnt from the experience and will never let it happen again.

I would like to ask you to allow me to make the necessary compensation to your company. I kindly request you not to take any further action if I meet all reasonable costs of the matter so far?

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours faithfully,

I don't think you should mention about your wife's visa as this has nothing to do with your case. I don't think TFL would care either way

 

[Far north 37]

Thanks for the reply Far north.

I contacted TFL customer service 3 times and talk to 3 different persons within TFL so far. All of them told the same thing i.e. that revenue inspectors should give me the penalty fare at the spot and if nothing was given to me, just simply sit back until you hear back from them, if at all. They further confirmed there is no direct number or email address to reach Revenue prosecution department.

They also confirmed that there is no information on my account re wrong doing.

Only thing they have is IRCAS details which is to pay penalty fare.

Do you have any contact number or email address to reach Revenue prosecution department?

sorry dont have any direct numbers but theres tfl offices at most of the mainline stations in london maybe worth going in if you can

 

[najaB]

sorry dont have any direct numbers but theres tfl offices at most of the mainline stations in london maybe worth going in if you can

That won't be where the prosecutions team with be based though so it's unlikely to produce any productive result.

 

[Hadders]

How long they generally take to write after the incident?

Normally a few weeks but it could be up to 6 months.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Are we saying that touching a Tesco Clubcard (not the credit card version) on an Oyster reader somehow simulates a "touch out" eg gives a green light?

 

[najaB]

Are we saying that touching a Tesco Clubcard (not the credit card version) on an Oyster reader somehow simulates a "touch out" eg gives a green light?

I can't see any way that it could...