Trivia: Stations that are overengineered for their current usage

[dk1]

Lowestoft has 3 platforms, only needs 2!

Crewe strikes me as over engineered, left over from it's days as a major hub!

All 3 are in use at 09:07 Monday's-Friday's but being permissive platforms you could get away with 2.

 

[Ianno87]

Crewe still is a major interchange, with lines radiating in six directions.

If anything, the 1980s remodelling had too much emphsis on high speed running through the centre roads.

Crewe has all its operational flexibilty in completely the wrong place for today's needs! Plus lots of low speed turnouts in places where they would not be placed today.

Through Platforms 1, 5, 6 and 11 are over-utilised (ATW Manchester-Cardiffs can only use 5/6, Manchester terminators really have to use 1, North Wales-Euston Platforms 6/11 only), whereas the bays are very under-utilised and Platform 12 is so poorly connected to the rest of the station its use is avoided.

 

[D6975]

Crewe has all its operational flexibilty in completely the wrong place for today's needs! Plus lots of low speed turnouts in places where they would not be placed today.

Through Platforms 1, 5, 6 and 11 are over-utilised (ATW Manchester-Cardiffs can only use 5/6, Manchester terminators really have to use 1, North Wales-Euston Platforms 6/11 only), whereas the bays are very under-utilised and Platform 12 is so poorly connected to the rest of the station its use is avoided.

Changes in the way services are provided has had the effect of increasing the need for through platforms rather than bays. A good example is Crewe mentioned above, the Liverpool stopper used to terminate in the north bay, but now that it continues to Brum, it needs to use a through platform. Also Cardiff services used to terminate in a south bay, but for quite a while now have worked through to Man Picc and other places.

 

[marks87]

What about Inverness?

Obviously the track layout currently mandates the number of platforms in that it's effectively two separate stations. But if money were no object and things could be remodelled in such a way that any service to/from any destination could use any platform, would seven platforms still be needed for current service levels?

 

[edwin_m]

Vauxhall in central London - only 4 of 8 platforms in regular use

Vauxhall has also appeared in the "underengineered" thread. The platforms that are in regular use are very narrow and frequently overcrowded.

 

[richard1976]

Denton has 2 platforms and only gets 1 train a week,
Gainsborough Central and Brigg both have 2 platforms and only see 6 trains a week all on a Saturday

 

[Dr_Paul]

Vauxhall in central London - only 4 of 8 platforms in regular use

That's not quite right. Platforms 5/6 are on the main through lines and so get used only exceptionally. Platforms 1/2 are on the up Windsor lines, and these days the Windsor service, which is usually on the fast line, stops at the station. The same applies to platforms 3/4, on the down Windsor lines. Platform 7/8 are on the main local lines and all main local services stop there these days. So it's only the main through platforms that don't get used on any regular basis, two out of the total of eight, and it's useful to keep those two in operational condition for emergency use.

 

[Clansman]

What about Inverness?

Obviously the track layout currently mandates the number of platforms in that it's effectively two separate stations. But if money were no object and things could be remodelled in such a way that any service to/from any destination could use any platform, would seven platforms still be needed for current service levels?

Although the station could be doing with ripping up and starting again in the location of the depot next to it, I do think 7 platforms is adequate as trains normally sit for long periods of time anyway - especially when the HSTs and new locals will come with higher service frequencies next year.

Ideally you'd want to bulldoze the station and the depot and build a new through station with an attached shopping centre to liven the place up a bit. A more complex version of Union Square would transform the city centre. But obviously the cost would be through the roof.

 

[NSE]

I'd say there is a difference between something like Skegness which doesn't need all its platforms and something like Vauxhall, which personally isn't over engineered. It's very busy, and the fast lines are very busy with trains, just they don't stop there. Ok, so the platforms are rarely used, but the line is still used every few minutes. As opposed to Skegness where nothing uses the platforms at all.

 

[sk688]

Moorgate ,with its not in use City Widened Line / ex TL platforms could count . I think something like 3 are no longer in use

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How about Shrewsbury?
Two long, disused bays (P1&2); and P3 only getting occasional use by (IIRC) HOWL services.

 

[infobleep]

That's not quite right. Platforms 5/6 are on the main through lines and so get used only exceptionally. Platforms 1/2 are on the up Windsor lines, and these days the Windsor service, which is usually on the fast line, stops at the station. The same applies to platforms 3/4, on the down Windsor lines. Platform 7/8 are on the main local lines and all main local services stop there these days. So it's only the main through platforms that don't get used on any regular basis, two out of the total of eight, and it's useful to keep those two in operational condition for emergency use.

The island platforms at Esher and New Malden have been allows to fall into disuse. I imagine if the fast lines were side by side and the platforms for up and down fast mainlines an island, the same might have happened at Vauxhall.

 

[30907]

The island platforms at Esher and New Malden have been allows to fall into disuse. I imagine if the fast lines were side by side and the platforms for up and down fast mainlines an island, the same might have happened at Vauxhall.

They were like that until about 1937 (Wimbledon flyover and Waterloo resignalling) - IIRC Vauxhall had a side platform on the Down Main Slow and none on the then Down Main Fast (which is now the UMS). Earlsfield has of course lost its former UMS platform, now the UMF.

 

[Techniquest]

How about Shrewsbury?
Two long, disused bays (P1&2); and P3 only getting occasional use by (IIRC) HOWL services.

1 and 2 have been out of use since before the early 90s! Bit unfair to count them, especially since I don't think platform 2 has had a platform face in many a year!

3 is used by South Wales to North Wales trains quite a lot, and I'm sure it has other uses too aside from the occasionally Heart of Wales train. If 3 was more easily accessed from the rest of the station, and had a connection onto the line towards Crewe, I'm sure it would be used more!

Hereford's platform 4 is hardly used these days, but doesn't really count as over-engineered.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's not quite right. Platforms 5/6 are on the main through lines and so get used only exceptionally. Platforms 1/2 are on the up Windsor lines, and these days the Windsor service, which is usually on the fast line, stops at the station. The same applies to platforms 3/4, on the down Windsor lines. Platform 7/8 are on the main local lines and all main local services stop there these days. So it's only the main through platforms that don't get used on any regular basis, two out of the total of eight, and it's useful to keep those two in operational condition for emergency use.

[Vauxhall]

I wonder if by next December (when the former international platforms come into permanent normal use), the usual platforming at Vauxhall may be different again, with some of the lines being redesigned as a result of the throat changes?

Don't P5/6 get used reasonably often on Sunday mornings whenever a two track timetable is in use on the main line side for planned maintenance?

 

[Ianno87]

[Vauxhall]

I wonder if by next December (when the former international platforms come into permanent normal use), the usual platforming at Vauxhall may be different again, with some of the lines being redesigned as a result of the throat changes?

Don't P5/6 get used reasonably often on Sunday mornings whenever a two track timetable is in use on the main line side for planned maintenance?

Main difference post-December is likely to be that more Windsor line services may be routed in via the Windsor Revsersible line rather than the Up Windsor, thus using Platform 1 rather than Platform 2 at Vauxhall.

 

[swt_passenger]

Main difference post-December is likely to be that more Windsor line services may be routed in via the Windsor Revsersible line rather than the Up Windsor, thus using Platform 1 rather than Platform 2 at Vauxhall.

Makes sense. Was really wondering if the line designations will stay the same in the long term, for instance could P1 just become an Up Windsor, rather than "reversible".

Be interesting to see if some sort of "end-state" track plan appears this summer?

I had a look to see if there was anything useful in the Network Change Notices, but as is usually the case there are no diagrams in the publicly accessible version...

 

[mike57]

There are five platforms at Scarborough and only 2 trains an hour for most of the day

Agree maybe doesn't need 5, but 3 trains tend to be stabled in the platforms overnight, and during summer Saturdays there are more trains, East Midlands have extended a train to Scarborough on Summer Saturdays, TPE run a few extras, and its a popular destination for steam operated rail tours. From December there is going to be 2 trains an hour to York.

 

[Intercity 225]

Thank you for all the responses so far to this thread, been informative and entertaining reading. Also delighted to see that it's spawned a sister thread!

To consolidate all the stations mentioned so far I've compiled the following lists - one contains all stations that have been widely accepted to be overengineered whereas the second list contains stations that are being debated as to whether they qualify or not. Both lists are in alphabetical order for ease of reference and each list can be updated over time as the thread progresses.

Please keep them coming!

Widely Accepted
Attenborough
Bexhill
Brigg
Cheadle Hulme
Chippenham
Denton
East Midlands Parkway
Esher
Folkestone Central
Gainsborough Central
Great Yarmouth
Hampton-in-Arden
Hartford
Hellifield
Hooton
Hull Paragon
Kempston Hardwick
North Camp
Perth
Salisbury
Shrewsbury
Skegness
Stirling
Telford Central
Thornton Abbey
Tynemouth
Wembley Central
Wemyss Bay

Debated
Birmingham Snow Hill
Blackpool North
Bristol Temple Meads
Bushey
Carlisle
Crewe
Dorchester South
Ebbsfleet International
Edinburgh Gateway
Goxhill
Harrow and Wealdstone
Inverness
Liverpool South Parkway
Lowestoft
Manchester Victoria
Moorgate
New Malden
Nuneaton
Queen's Park (London)
Scarborough
Stafford
Stratford International
Vauxhall
Watford Junction
Weymouth

 

[GW43125]

Makes sense. Was really wondering if the line designations will stay the same in the long term, for instance could P1 just become an Up Windsor, rather than "reversible".

Be interesting to see if some sort of "end-state" track plan appears this summer?

I had a look to see if there was anything useful in the Network Change Notices, but as is usually the case there are no diagrams in the publicly accessible version...

It's handy to have the reversible function, as if something goes bang with the points at nine elms, you can still bring one down the reversible and cross back at QTR.

 

[Techniquest]

Bristol Temple Meads, possibly over-engineered?! No chance. This station is always busy, especially at peak times. Personally I'd want to engineer it more, in particular make platform 13 a through platform as a back-up for platform 15's through line.

Dorchester South is used as a passing loop most of the day, so it's two platforms are used regularly, thus this station cannot be even considered over-engineered. Same thing applies to Weymouth, and for that matter many of the stations listed as debatable. Harrow and Wealdstone, OK so the fast line platforms don't see much use. That applies to the majority of stations between London Euston and Northampton, as well as from London Paddington to Didcot Parkway. If the fast line platforms saw regular use it would stuff up the express services. Take away the fast line platforms, and you lose the flexibility.

Hooton I saw mentioned and I agree it is a bit over-engineered these days, as those two bay platforms don't see use these days.

There aren't that many stations which can truely be described as over-engineered, just poorly so these days. Stratford International is definitely one that was over-engineered, but I do recall the plan was to stop Eurostar services there originally, then the plan changed after construction started. I could be wrong on the latter.

 

[Parallel]

Shrewsbury appears to have too many platforms for the services it gets, however all the services seem to use the station at the same time... The 1tp2h Cardiff - Holyhead ones use platform 3 and depart at approx xx.27 past the hour, Birmingham to Cambrian/Cambrian Coast normally uses platform 5 and departs around xx.29, Cambrian/Cambrian Coast - Birmingham usually departs platform 4 at around xx.33 and the LM Birmingham local normally uses platform 6 and departs at xx.47. The Manchester - West Wales train then departs platform 7B at around xx.40 I believe. Most of the services mentioned above have at least 5 mins dwell time too! If platform 1 and 2 were still in situ then possibly, but as it currently stands, it's fine IMO.

Salisbury I think is too large for its services these days. I think Pontypridd is too - I have no idea why more terminating services don't just turn around using the new bay platform? Obviously most of the original station doesn't have track anymore. I imagine it was rather glorious in its heyday.

 

[Richard_B]

Don't thing it's been suggested so Exeter Central. The main platforms are long - although I do like being able to leave out the back - and the bay platform is pointless as there seems to be no reason to not send any train through to St Davids

 

[Parallel]

Don't thing it's been suggested so Exeter Central. The main platforms are long - although I do like being able to leave out the back - and the bay platform is pointless as there seems to be no reason to not send any train through to St Davids

AFAIK the only booked service that uses the bay platform is a few Exmouth Sunday services that run between Exmouth and Central only. Occasionally late running SWT services also use it for a faster turnaround.

 

[richard1976]

Wrexham general, Has two un numbed bay platforms that not used, also platform 3 sees very if any use

 

[NoMorePacers]

Wellington, two non-stop lines, even though as far as I know there aren't any non-stop services (probably wrong though, correct me on this), and a useless bay platform.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's handy to have the reversible function, as if something goes bang with the points at nine elms, you can still bring one down the reversible and cross back at QTR.

Sure, but if you started with a clean slate might you be better using the middle of three tracks?

 

[Clansman]

I'll throw Aberdeen into the mix, simply because 2 platforms go unused for passenger services and others only used a couple of times throughout the day.

Plenty of room to grow when the services increase next year though.

 

[james60059]

Nuneaton all seem to have platforms that are rarely used.

Platform 3 and 4 I would guess aren't used much now since Virgin stopped calling during the day (I believe there's still peak services though?).

Been a while since I caught a train from Nuneaton .

 

[dk1]

Platform 3 and 4 I would guess aren't used much now since Virgin stopped calling during the day (I believe there's still peak services though?).

Been a while since I caught a train from Nuneaton .

Used by several trains early-mid morning & evenings but apart from that only red blurs flash through constantly.