Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[simon7929]

Even more difficult when people are getting on with bike accessories hanging out foul.

 

[Starmill]

150s are very poor at dealing with heavy loadings. The 3+2 airline seating makes it almost impossible for people to stand in the aisle, there's just hardly any room. The accessible toilet takes up a huge amount of space. 3+2 airline seating is rubbish for anyone going more than half an hour at quiet times, and even worse for peak times.

 

[xotGD]

Folk in the North East will be very fortunate to have a combination of 156s and 158s while down in Yorkshire we will be stuck with 150s on many routes.

Is replacing a 144 with 2 + 2 seating with a 150 with 3 + 2 seating really an improvement?

 

[simon7929]

150s are very poor at dealing with heavy loadings. The 3+2 airline seating makes it almost impossible for people to stand in the aisle, there's just hardly any room. The accessible toilet takes up a huge amount of space. 3+2 airline seating is rubbish for anyone going more than half an hour at quiet times, and even worse for peak times.

The biggest problem is that traincrew struggle to even get out of the cab to carry out their duties. People tend to congregate behind the cab door causing delays. With 150s the crew can get out easily due to the vestibule being a restricted area. This restriction allows the driver/guard
to conduct their duties safely and efficiently.

 

[507021]

Is replacing a 144 with 2 + 2 seating with a 150 with 3 + 2 seating really an improvement?

Not in my view, no. I find Northern's 150s are very unpleasant to travel on and I will avoid them at all costs unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd much rather travel on a 142 or 144, but so far this year I've been quite lucky and managed to avoid travelling on 150s on Northern services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not in my view, no. I find Northern's 150s are very unpleasant to travel on and I will avoid them at all costs unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd much rather travel on a 142 or 144, but so far this year I've been quite lucky and managed to avoid travelling on 150s on Northern services.

I'd argue that 144s are the absolute worst. Other than the priority seats and the handful of bays the legroom is atrocious. 150s aren't great but at least you can get your knees in, just!

 

[47802]

I'd argue that 144s are the absolute worst. Other than the priority seats and the handful of bays the legroom is atrocious. 150s aren't great but at least you can get your knees in, just!

Well while they may not be the best I would take a 150 over any Railbus for the better ride and being generally a bit less draughty in winter.

Looking from where I live in West York's you've going to get the new 195's on the new Connect Services, supposedly 170's on the Harrogate and a Calder Valley Stopper, that leave's mainly local stopping services which may be 150/155 for which they should be reasonably adequate. Worst case scenario I guess if 150's end up on the Leeds-Lancaster route but even then I would take a 150over a big dipper ride on a Railbus on that route and hopefully that route will go over to 156 or 158.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd argue that 144s are the absolute worst. Other than the priority seats and the handful of bays the legroom is atrocious. 150s aren't great but at least you can get your knees in, just!

No, I have to say I commute on them every day, and they're actually good to travel on for half an hour.

When a 142 turns up that is terrible.

 

[507021]

No, I have to say I commute on them every day, and they're actually good to travel on for half an hour.

When a 142 turns up that is terrible.

I've spent over an hour on a 144 a few times before, and each time it was miles better than any length of journey I've had on a 150. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate all 150s because I think Arriva Trains Wales and GWR's refurbished examples are pretty good, but Northern's really need completely stripping out and fitting with high backed 2+2 seating at the very least.

 

[yorksrob]

I've spent over an hour on a 144 a few times before, and each time it was miles better than any length of journey I've had on a 150. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate all 150s because I think Arriva Trains Wales and GWR's refurbished examples are pretty good, but Northern's really need completely stripping out and fitting with high backed 2+2 seating at the very least.

I agree with you. The 144's are very good . 150's, you can work miracles with them, like in thw SW area, but no one in the Northern area has ever attempted the necessary works on them .

 

[superkev]

I hate excessively high backed seats particularly in airline layout where looking out of you tiny cell is very restricted.
And yes I prefer the 144's to the noisy claustrophobic, pedestrian 150's providing of course the track has no sharp curves or joints.
K

 

[Crossforth]

After 158758s little bump with the buffers at Preston earlier today, is it safe to say that this will be off for refurb soon? :P

https://twitter.com/jotter92/status/848296250227253248

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any damage to the unit? It doesn't look like.

 

[507021]

Is there any damage to the unit? It doesn't look like.

There's some minor damage to the lower part (closest to the camera) of the interconnecting gangway in this image.

 

[northwichcat]

150s are very poor at dealing with heavy loadings. The 3+2 airline seating makes it almost impossible for people to stand in the aisle, there's just hardly any room. The accessible toilet takes up a huge amount of space. 3+2 airline seating is rubbish for anyone going more than half an hour at quiet times, and even worse for peak times.

From the TOC's prospective 150s perform well on routes where a lot of people get on or off at intermediate stations because that happens more quickly on 150s than when using Pacers or other Sprinters so the train is more likely to leave a station on time.

I was on a tatty ex-ATN 150/2 yesterday and a little girl kept pointing to trains and asking her mum if it was a nicer train than the one they were on. The mum said yes in response to the question every time it was asked - the girl pointed at Pendolinos, Voyagers, 350s, 185s and (EMT) 158s. (She didn't point at a 142 going in the opposite direction though.)

 

[xotGD]

The 142s retrofitted with 3+2 seats are the absolute worst in Northern's fleet. All the disadvantages of a bendy plus terrible, narrow seats.

They ought to be the first to the scrap yard.

 

[northwichcat]

The 142s retrofitted with 3+2 seats are the absolute worst in Northern's fleet. All the disadvantages of a bendy plus terrible, narrow seats.

They ought to be the first to the scrap yard.

What do you mean by retrofitted with 3+2 seats? Most of Northern's 142s have the seats they were built with, some had a Merseytravel funded refurbishment and had the original 3+2 seats replaced by new ones and some had a refurbishment undertaken by Northern Spirit where the original 3+2 seats were replaced with new (unusual) ones in a 2+2 formation.

I think the 141s were the only Pacers which weren't originally built with 3+2 seating.

 

[xotGD]

What do you mean by retrofitted with 3+2 seats? Most of Northern's 142s have the seats they were built with, some had a Merseytravel funded refurbishment and had the original 3+2 seats replaced by new ones and some had a refurbishment undertaken by Northern Spirit where the original 3+2 seats were replaced with new (unusual) ones in a 2+2 formation.

I think the 141s were the only Pacers which weren't originally built with 3+2 seating.

You've answered your own question - the Merseytravel 3+2 retrofits. Awful.

On the original bus seats you can at least spread out when the train isn't busy.

 

[northwichcat]

You've answered your own question - the Merseytravel 3+2 retrofits. Awful.

On the original bus seats you can at least spread out when the train isn't busy.

Retrofit (verb)

• add (a component or accessory) to something that did not have it when manufactured.
  "motorists who retrofit catalysts to older cars"
• provide (something) with a component or accessory not fitted during manufacture.
  "buses have been retrofitted with easy-access features"

Replacing old 3+2 seating with new 3+2 seating counts as a refurbishment not a retrofit

 

[507021]

The 142s retrofitted with 3+2 seats are the absolute worst in Northern's fleet. All the disadvantages of a bendy plus terrible, narrow seats.

They ought to be the first to the scrap yard.

As I'm fairly short, they're not too bad, but I totally get why they're unpopular with taller people because the legroom looks like it'd be a bit tight if I was any taller than I am now. Above all else in the fleet, give me a 156 any day.

Then again, I'll admit I can't wait until the shiny and new 195s start running out of Lime Street...

 

[darloscott]

156444 returned to Heaton this morning from Crewe in the new livery

 

[mikemcniven]

156444 returned to Heaton this morning from Crewe in the new livery

Something then went straight back down on from Heaton to Crewe LNWR (I presume another 156) on 526P

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96020/2017/04/02/advanced

Someone just said on a facebook group it's 156443 that went down

 

[507021]

Updated list, thanks to those who have posted updates.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern livery.
Units in bold are fully refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.

Class 150s:
150103, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150132, 150133, 150134, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140, 150141, 150142, 150143, 150144, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149, 150150.

150201, 150203, 150204*, 150205, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274, 150275* 150276, 150277.

Due: 150001, 150002; 150101, 150102, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124, 150125, 150126, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131.

Class 155s:
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345, 155346^, 155347.

Class 156s:
156420, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438, 156440, 156441, 156443*^, 156444*, 156448, 156451*, 156452, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469, 156471*, 156472*, 156475, 156479^, 156480, 156481, 156482*, 156483*, 156484, 156486, 156487*, 156488, 156489, 156490, 156491.

Due: 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s:
2-car: 158784, 158787, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845, 158848, 158849, 158850, 158851, 158853, 158855, 158859, 158860, 158861, 158872, 158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

3-car: 158752*, 158753^, 158754, 158755, 158756*, 158757, 158758, 158759.

Due: 158782, 158786, 158789, 158867, 158868, 158869, 158870, 158871.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170:
170453, 170454, 170455, 170456, 170457, 170458, 170459, 170460, 170461, 170472, 170473, 170474, 170475, 170476, 170477, 170478.

Class 319s:
319004^, 319005*^.

319218*$, 319219*$.

319361*, 319362*, 319363*, 319364, 319365, 319366^, 319367, 319368, 319369, 319371, 319374, 319375, 319376, 319377, 319378, 319379, 319380, 319382, 319383, 319386.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442^, 319448*$, 319450*, 319456*^, 319458*^.

Class 333s:
333001, 333002, 333003, 333004, 333005, 333006, 333007, 333008, 333009$, 333010, 333011, 333012, 333013, 333014, 333015, 333016.

If anybody notices any mistakes or has information on the PRM status of the units expected to arrive please let me know.

 

[8A Rail]

319363 is in the off white / very light grey livery with the blue doors. Arrived back from Wolverton on Saturday, 25th March and was in service on the Monday, 27th.

 

[clickste]

Apologies I'm new to the forums, so please be gentle!

But i'm on the Hadfield/Glossop line with the Class 323 trains, I don't see any mention of these in the refurb/rolling stock list above, I gather these are being replaced at some point rather than refurbished?

Does anyone know what the plan is for these and when (would be nice to have trains where you can see out of the windows in the evenings, and maybe some digital info displays so you know where you are!!!)

 

[superkev]

Updated list, thanks to those who have posted updates.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern livery.
Units in bold are fully refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.

Class 150s:
150103, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150132, 150133, 150134, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140, 150141, 150142, 150143, 150144, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149, 150150.

150201, 150203, 150204*, 150205, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274, 150275* 150276, 150277.

Due: 150001, 150002; 150101, 150102, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124, 150125, 150126, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131.

Class 155s:
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345, 155346^, 155347.

Class 156s:
156420, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438, 156440, 156441, 156443*^, 156444*, 156448, 156451*, 156452, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469, 156471*, 156472*, 156475, 156479^, 156480, 156481, 156482*, 156483*, 156484, 156486, 156487*, 156488, 156489, 156490, 156491.

Due: 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s:
2-car: 158784, 158787, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845, 158848, 158849, 158850, 158851, 158853, 158855, 158859, 158860, 158861, 158872, 158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

3-car: 158752*, 158753^, 158754, 158755, 158756*, 158757, 158758, 158759.

Due: 158782, 158786, 158789, 158867, 158868, 158869, 158870, 158871.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170:
170453, 170454, 170455, 170456, 170457, 170458, 170459, 170460, 170461, 170472, 170473, 170474, 170475, 170476, 170477, 170478.

Class 319s:
319004^, 319005*^.

319218*$, 319219*$.

319361*, 319362*, 319363^, 319364, 319365, 319366^, 319367, 319368, 319369, 319371, 319374, 319375, 319376, 319377, 319378, 319379, 319380, 319382, 319383, 319386.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442^, 319448*$, 319450*, 319456*^, 319458*^.

Class 333s:
333001, 333002, 333003, 333004, 333005, 333006, 333007, 333008, 333009$, 333010, 333011, 333012, 333013, 333014, 333015, 333016.

If anybody notices any mistakes or has information on the PRM status of the units expected to arrive please let me know.

Thanks. Interesting you've added 158s and 170's due from scotrail. I wonder when they will start to appear.
K

 

[YorkshireBear]

Apologies I'm new to the forums, so please be gentle!

But i'm on the Hadfield/Glossop line with the Class 323 trains, I don't see any mention of these in the refurb/rolling stock list above, I gather these are being replaced at some point rather than refurbished?

Does anyone know what the plan is for these and when (would be nice to have trains where you can see out of the windows in the evenings, and maybe some digital info displays so you know where you are!!!)

They will be replaced by 319s initially before being replaced with brand new stock.

 

[Malay States]

156s have tons of bike space, they have a traditional van area.

I use my bike a lot on Northern (600+ times) and 156s are my favourite. There is not as much length as on other types so the bike doesn't move back & forward and fall over. Next best are the ex Cardiff area 150s, 268-277, which have a seat belt to use. The hanging straps are useless.

 

[northwichcat]

maybe some digital info displays so you know where you are!!!)

Every train will have those by 2020 by law as trains will have to be accessible to people who are deaf or hard of hearing. They are currently being fitted to many older trains.

 

[northwichcat]

They will be replaced by 319s initially before being replaced with brand new stock.

Worth noting the refurbished 319s will finish up with the same number of seats as 323s (currently used on the Glossop line) currently have. The brand new 331s will also have the same number of seats but they will be larger seats with 2 seats either side of the aisle, rather than having 3 one side of the aisle and 2 on the other side.