EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Mag_seven]

I thought that they'd separated?

That says it all doesn't it!

 

[D365]

What a waste of time the last 9 months have been.

To be honest with you, I'm steering well clear of the news at the moment. I used to be an avid reader but the past year or two has really put me off.

Even railway news is a bit much for me sometimes

 

[WelshBluebird]

It has the potential to hurt middle incomers more than the minimum wagers. I don't accept Brexit will do either

And I (and many experts in politics and economics) disagree with you.
There is the very real risk of companies packing up and leaving some of these areas where they are potentially one of the major employers. So try telling a Brexit voter who has just lost his job because the company moved away because of Brexit that all is ok!

For me the sovereignty point is worth any penalties accrued.

And there we have it. Brexit at any cost.

Remind me again, what nationality is Mrs Farage?

And yet he was the same person trying to blame literally everything (including being late to a meeting in Wales because of M4 traffic) on immigration so you'd have initially thought he would be the one playing hardball with the lives of EU citizens living in this country.

 

[Moonshot]

And I (and many experts in politics and economics) disagree with you.
There is the very real risk of companies packing up and leaving some of these areas where they are potentially one of the major employers. So try telling a Brexit voter who has just lost his job because the company moved away because of Brexit that all is ok!



And there we have it. Brexit at any cost.



And yet he was the same person trying to blame literally everything (including being late to a meeting in Wales because of M4 traffic) on immigration so you'd have initially thought he would be the one playing hardball with the lives of EU citizens living in this country.

The North East Nissan plant would be a distinct possibility should tariifs be introduced on cars.

Anyway, we are where we are, no doubt the Brexit news will fade for the time being whilst 2 years of negotiations are under way. You would have to wonder however what will happen in other Euro countries when elections come up and eurosceptic parties possibly get voted in. UK has jumped ship rightly or wrongly.......just how many will follow ?

 

[meridian2]

Would you agree then that packing frozen food on a night shift ( as you quoted earlier ) would actually meet the minimum requirements of putting a roof over your head?

It may, if you had no other aspirations. It probably wouldn't fulfil the Thatcherite right to own ones own home, neither would it provide children with the new football boots, piano lessons and private tuition the middle classes enjoy.

 

[meridian2]

And there we have it. Brexit at any cost.

If the EU is the predatory, expansionist, political and economic monopoly some fear, then some cost is inevitable. Just as it was in 1940 when Britain could have sued for peace and saved numerous British lives at the price of vassal statehood.

Economic "experts" differ over the cost of UK independence, so "any price" is rhetoric at this stage.

 

[Moonshot]

It may, if you had no other aspirations. It probably wouldn't fulfil the Thatcherite right to own ones own home, neither would it provide children with the new football boots, piano lessons and private tuition the middle classes enjoy.

I m sure you would agree that the state should not provide football boots, piano lessons and private tuition to anyone......that would really be dependent on the frozen food packer.

In reality, absolutely anyone has the right to own their own home. What would you suggest that the frozen food packer does if they indeed wanted to do that assuming they dont already ?

 

[Moonshot]

If the EU is the predatory, expansionist, political and economic monopoly some fear, then some cost is inevitable. Just as it was in 1940 when Britain could have sued for peace and saved numerous British lives at the price of vassal statehood.

Economic "experts" differ over the cost of UK independence, so "any price" is rhetoric at this stage.

So in your opinion, what would the outlook be in March 2019 for someone who is unemployed in the UK?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I thought that they'd separated?

I'd missed that.

Rumours are his new beau is French, so the point still stands

 

[meridian2]

I m sure you would agree that the state should not provide football boots, piano lessons and private tuition to anyone......that would really be dependent on the frozen food packer.

In truth it would depend on the amount of profit the company owner is prepared to share with his workforce, in other words the wages he was prepared to pay. Even in the horrors of Victorian industrial exploitation some mill owners were driven by philanthropic principles to provide libraries, schools, good housing and leisure facilities for their employees, when they could have worked them to death like the rest.

In reality, absolutely anyone has the right to own their own home. What would you suggest that the frozen food packer does if they indeed wanted to do that assuming they dont already ?

Depopulate the areas of Britain where such practices still pay, head for London and buy a slave hutch in Milton Keynes like every other drone.

 

[Moonshot]

In truth it would depend on the amount of profit the company owner is prepared to share with his workforce, in other words the wages he was prepared to pay. Even in the horrors of Victorian industrial exploitation some mill owners were driven by philanthropic principles to provide libraries, schools, good housing and leisure facilities for their employees, when they could have worked them to death like the rest.

Depopulate the areas of Britain where such practices still pay, head for London and buy a slave hutch in Milton Keynes like every other drone.

Do you think Bill Gates has philanthropic principles ??

 

[muz379]

Anyway, we are where we are, no doubt the Brexit news will fade for the time being whilst 2 years of negotiations are under way. You would have to wonder however what will happen in other Euro countries when elections come up and eurosceptic parties possibly get voted in. UK has jumped ship rightly or wrongly.......just how many will follow ?

Well given that the Dutch election really did not go the way the euro-sceptics had hoped for . And in France the polling is increasingly looking like le pen is not going to win and besides which she doesn't even want frexit she just wants to renegotiate with the EU . I dont think it is likely that any other nation will be jumping ship anytime soon .

If anything I personally think that the EU will only strengthen after this , as much as many brexiters like to think that we are a pivotal nation in the EU and it cannot go on without us (why they care i dont know) the truth is we have always been the nation at the side carving our own separate path with the many concessions we had and so I am sure it will be seen by some in the remaining EU nations like the EU is cutting out a weak link and can just go from strength to strength .

 

[AlterEgo]

In reality, absolutely anyone has the right to own their own home.

No, they don't have a right.

Perhaps you mean "people should have the opportunity to own"?

 

[meridian2]

Do you think Bill Gates has philanthropic principles ??

Every one of your posts has been a question, and each of mine has been as answer. Let's switch it, do you believe in the principle of from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

 

[Tetchytyke]

No, they don't have a right.

Perhaps you mean "people should have the opportunity to own"?

People should have the right to a roof over their head, though. And a proper roof, looked after and everything, free from the threat of being evicted by a rogue landlord because they "smell of curry" or are a plumber.

However thanks to the weakest security of tenure laws in Europe, a tenant can be booted out with two months' notice, and then they're in the jaws of letting agent filth who'll charge a £400 "administration fee" for doing diddly squat.

The only way you get secure tenure in this country is through buying. That's really where people like Moonshot are coming from. You should be able to put down roots.

 

[Moonshot]

Every one of your posts has been a question, and each of mine has been as answer. Let's switch it, do you believe in the principle of from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

I believe that everyone should maximise their own abilities....I accept the fact that some have more ability than others. Government should put as few hurdles in the way as possible.

 

[bavvo]

It may, if you had no other aspirations. It probably wouldn't fulfil the Thatcherite right to own ones own home, neither would it provide children with the new football boots, piano lessons and private tuition the middle classes enjoy.

Old Maggie did not bestow the 'right to own ones on home' on us. Aspiration maybe, but not a right. The right to purchase your council house with a large state subsidy is not the quite the same thing...

 

[Moonshot]

People should have the right to a roof over their head, though. And a proper roof, looked after and everything, free from the threat of being evicted by a rogue landlord because they "smell of curry" or are a plumber.

However thanks to the weakest security of tenure laws in Europe, a tenant can be booted out with two months' notice, and then they're in the jaws of letting agent filth who'll charge a £400 "administration fee" for doing diddly squat.

The only way you get secure tenure in this country is through buying. That's really where people like Moonshot are coming from. You should be able to put down roots.

Isnt it true that absolutely anyone can actually go and buy a house ? Of course this would be subject to funds available, but the fact remains that there are no laws in this country that actually prohibit anyone from buying a house.

 

[bavvo]

Every one of your posts has been a question, and each of mine has been as answer. Let's switch it, do you believe in the principle of from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

Seems reasonable.

 

[AlterEgo]

People should have the right to a roof over their head, though. And a proper roof, looked after and everything, free from the threat of being evicted by a rogue landlord because they "smell of curry" or are a plumber.

However thanks to the weakest security of tenure laws in Europe, a tenant can be booted out with two months' notice, and then they're in the jaws of letting agent filth who'll charge a £400 "administration fee" for doing diddly squat.

The only way you get secure tenure in this country is through buying. That's really where people like Moonshot are coming from. You should be able to put down roots.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. If people cannot afford to buy outright, then I certainly agree that they have a right to a safe, clean, fit-for-purpose roof over their heads.

 

[meridian2]

I believe that everyone should maximise their own abilities....I accept the fact that some have more ability than others. Government should put as few hurdles in the way as possible.

So you don't believe it incumbent upon those who through social background or innate intelligence have made pots of money to share it with those lacking such in such gifts? You're a social Darwinian who believes the last dog standing wins and it's governments role to ease their path in every way possible?

 

[Moonshot]

So you don't believe it incumbent upon those who through social background or innate intelligence have made pots of money to share it with those lacking such in such gifts? You're a social Darwinian who believes the last dog standing wins and it's governments role to ease their path in every way possible?

Isnt that what Bill Gates does with his foundation?? Isnt that what our own government is doing by withdrawing from the EU thus saving £350 million per week which subsidises the likes of poorer EU countries such as Romania?

How many people in the UK are paying 40% tax on their income ?? Train drivers certainly do on some of it. If you earn up to around £12k, you dont actually pay tax, so is that not an example of the lower paid benefitting from government policy? How many people in the UK are now employed by easyjet, which started off life with just 2 aircraft and £5 million pound of capital provided by Stelios.......and a de regulation of European Airspace?

 

[najaB]

Isnt that what our own government is doing by withdrawing from the EU thus saving £350 million per week...

There is no £350M per week. There never was, it was a creative use of statistics by the Leave campaign.

I can't believe that people still take that as fact.

 

[meridian2]

Isnt that what Bill Gates does with his foundation??

I don't think the Bill Gates model is a reliable means of wealth distribution. Nor are Google, Amazon or Starbucks exemplars of the dictum I quoted above.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Telling someone in Boston or Stoke on Trent they'd never had it so good, , which was the nub of the Remain argument

I think you are 60 years out of date in your reasoning, as it was in 1957 that the then British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, made the speech with those same sentiments,

 

[meridian2]

I think you are 60 years out of date in your reasoning, as it was in 1957 that the then British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, made the speech with those same sentiments,

I'm aware of the Harold Macmillan speech, and the Remain mind set was the same - quit moaning and stop rocking the boat, you've all got loadsamoney! (Unless you haven't in which case you're too lazy to pick spuds).

 

[Moonshot]

I don't think the Bill Gates model is a reliable means of wealth distribution. Nor are Google, Amazon or Starbucks exemplars of the dictum I quoted above.

Really ?? remind me again of how many people in the UK are employed by those 3 mentioned above? How many would lose their jobs if Nissan was to close its North east plant? Surely the most basic way of aquiring wealth is to actually have a job ?

 

[Moonshot]

There is no £350M per week. There never was, it was a creative use of statistics by the Leave campaign.

I can't believe that people still take that as fact.

I dont.....but will use it anyway for the purpose of this thread.

 

[backontrack]

In other news, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have been sighted making their way down Euston Road. One of them was heard to say "fnaah, pwaah, whiffy whaffwhaff bumblescrump" as he passed.

 

[meridian2]

Really ?? remind me again of how many people in the UK are employed by those 3 mentioned above?

Are you aware of criticisms of their tax avoidance? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359