Arriva Rail North DOO

[HH]

The strike at ScotRail also involved lots of Saturdays. At the time I thought it might simply be something to make it more palatable to the guards - less turns to lose money from and who doesn't like having a Saturday off?

 

[northwichcat]

I've just noticed that industrial action is planned in for Saturday 8'th April on Northern (I'm presuming in relation to the above dispute).

Does anyone know why they've chosen Saturday ? This seems highly unusual.

It is the date of the Grand National in Liverpool

Indeed. A RMT rep who appeared on the news claimed some of their members wanted to strike on Grand National Day to show how angry they are.

 

[muz379]

The strike at ScotRail also involved lots of Saturdays. At the time I thought it might simply be something to make it more palatable to the guards - less turns to lose money from and who doesn't like having a Saturday off?

We have the same number of turns on a Saturday as any other day of the week , working 3 out of 4 .

Not just that but because of the fact that nobody wants to volunteer for RDW on a Saturday the Saturday turns are on average longer . So probably less palatable financially .

Although I will concede that having an extra Saturday off is always welcome .

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. A RMT rep who appeared on the news claimed some of their members wanted to strike on Grand National Day to show how angry they are.

If they want to strike a blow against the managerial class, surely a week day strike would be more sensible.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I hope they call a strike on the day the Settle-Carlisle reopens.

It is not just the Grand National that is seen as a good target to strike against, as the comment above earlier in the thread from a personal members point of view shows that any high profile event is "fair game"...

 

[455driver]

Here is the (standard) reply to a petition I signed-

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Stop Northern Rail from introducing Driver-Only operation.”.

To unsubscribe from this petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/36140371/unsubscribe?token=aQQP5wBZupGFP0AY9aML

Government responded:

This is a matter for Northern Rail. Trains with doors operated by drivers have been operating safely across the UK for over 30 years, and have been safety approved by the independent rail regulator.

etc etc

As it was in the ITT to impliment DOO then surely it is more of a Government issue!
Is this the same 'Independent' Rail Regulator with TOC MDs on the board? :roll:

 

[Domh245]

Here is the (standard) reply to a petition I signed-


As it was in the ITT to impliment DOO then surely it is more of a Government issue!
Is this the same 'Independent' Rail Regulator with TOC MDs on the board? :roll:

I think it was the RAIB who had TOC MDs on the board. The ORR (which I'm assuming is the independent rail regulator referred to) don't have any TOC MDs unless I've missed any but was recently reshuffled according to the RMT.

 

[455driver]

I think it was the RAIB who had TOC MDs on the board. The ORR (which I'm assuming is the independent rail regulator referred to) don't have any TOC MDs unless I've missed any but was recently reshuffled according to the RMT.

Its actually the RSSB, the Rail Standards and Safety Board.
Lee Jones, Amey
Malcolm Brown, CEO Angel
Charles Horton, CEO GTR
Steve Murphy, COO MTR
Geoff Spencer, CEO DBC
Graham Hopkins, Network Rail
Philip Hoare, MD Atkins

I do have a picture of the letter dated March 15 about the best way to implement DOO.

 

[northwichcat]

As it was in the ITT to impliment DOO then surely it is more of a Government issue!

The full government response also sounds like the one a Northern manager was giving to the media.

 

[Domh245]

Its actually the RSSB, the Rail Standards and Safety Board.
Lee Jones, Amey
Malcolm Brown, CEO Angel
Charles Horton, CEO GTR
Steve Murphy, COO MTR
Geoff Spencer, CEO DBC
Graham Hopkins, Network Rail
Philip Hoare, MD Atkins

I do have a picture of the letter dated March 15 about the best way to implement DOO.

Ah yes. Brain fart moment.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. A RMT rep who appeared on the news claimed some of their members wanted to strike on Grand National Day to show how angry they are.

I'm sure HM Government will breathe a sigh of relief that they aren't obstructing the working week.

 

[muz379]

Here is the (standard) reply to a petition I signed-


As it was in the ITT to impliment DOO then surely it is more of a Government issue!
Is this the same 'Independent' Rail Regulator with TOC MDs on the board? :roll:

Its certainly not a matter for Northern Rail either given that they no longer exist . Shows the level of seriousness the government are treating this matter with .

 

[Starmill]

I'm sure HM Government will breathe a sigh of relief that they aren't obstructing the working week.

Does this sound like it's going to be the last day of strike action? :/ Because it doesn't to me.

Northern did an awful job of managing contingencies last time, with a number of urban stations left with no trains, no replacement buses and no alternatives. In many ways it was worse than Southern, which is difficult to believe. I don't want any more of these strikes any day of the week.

 

[yorksrob]

Does this sound like it's going to be the last day of strike action? :/ Because it doesn't to me.

I never said it would be. If it doesn't affect anyone important, i.e. bosses, captains of industry etc, rather than people going shopping etc, it could go on forever.

 

[Starmill]

Scenes of chaos (even warnings of transport chaos) will damage the regions economy, and deplete the reputation of one of the most high profile annual events which takes place there. Striking on high summer Saturdays or December Saturdays would probably inconvenience more potential rail users than a typical 'low' weekday. Lost revenue is also a significant factor. Extra tickets sold to racegoers will probably be a significant boost that will now be lost.

 

[yorksrob]

Scenes of chaos (even warnings of transport chaos) will damage the regions economy, and deplete the reputation of one of the most high profile annual events which takes place there. Striking on high summer Saturdays or December Saturdays would probably inconvenience more potential rail users than a typical 'low' weekday.

A "low" weekday might not seem impressive, but its what keeps the economy ticking over. A few people having fun in Liverpool won't make any difference where it matters.

 

[Starmill]

If there's one strike day when you're at work, you're probably going to:
-Book a day of annual leave
-Arrange to work from home (or make it up some other way if you're lucky enough to be on flexitime and have an understanding boss)
-Drive to work
-Get a lift or carshare, drive or get the bus to another station served by another train company
-If your station does have a service, as a last resort go to the not so great trouble of catching the train before the one you normally do

Pretty much everyone has an option for one day off work. But would you go to the Grand National next weekend? You'd probably stay away depriving many different companies of revenue. Or if you do go, and its chaos, are you going to go next year? Next time you're having a day out are you likely to consider the train again after that farce?

There will almost certainly be another strike on a weekday coming a few weeks behind this one. Perhaps it will then follow in the Southern footsteps with 2/3 day ones, and then maybe a whole week, depending on what the other Union and the company say between now and then. Taking this oppourtunity to ruin a key event for thousands which doesn't happen on a lot of other days for them to go to instead is a clever move.

 

[yorksrob]

If there's one strike day when you're at work, you're probably going to:
-Book a day of annual leave
-Arrange to work from home (or make it up some other way if you're lucky enough to be on flexitime and have an understanding boss)
-Drive to work
-Get a lift or carshare, drive or get the bus to another station served by another train company
-If your station does have a service, as a last resort go to the not so great trouble of catching the train before the one you normally do

Pretty much everyone has an option for one day off work. But would you go to the Grand National next weekend? You'd probably stay away depriving many different companies of revenue. Or if you do go, and its chaos, are you going to go next year? Next time you're having a day out are you likely to consider the train again after that farce?

There will almost certainly be another strike on a weekday coming a few weeks behind this one. Perhaps it will then follow in the Southern footsteps with 2/3 day ones, and then maybe a whole week, depending on what the other Union and the company say between now and then. Taking this oppourtunity to ruin a key event for thousands which doesn't happen on a lot of other days for them to go to instead is a clever move.

A tiny proportion of people will be going to the Grand National. Certainly the majority who would attend from most of the Northern area will be going via other TOC's anyway.

This will hardly affect anyone who matters in the dispute. The wheels of business will barely notice this action. A poor strategic move.

 

[Carlisle]

Taking this oppourtunity to ruin a key event for thousands which doesn't happen on a lot of other days for them to go to instead is a clever move.

I don't see anything especially clever about continuously re running strikes over something that was actually accepted as a safe way of working as far back as 1981 (earlier on the T&W metro and Vic line) but each to their own I guess (let's just try and rally all the more recently recruited employees and pretend that period never really existed)

 

[Starmill]

The union's stance is not what I was calling clever. I was commenting on their ability to cause maximum disruption from a minimal loss of pay.

 

[Starmill]

This will hardly affect anyone who matters in the dispute. The wheels of business will barely notice this action. A poor strategic move.

Who are 'the people who matter'? They're only interested in inconveniencing you, the everyday customer, ultimately. How else can they cause disruption? How much do the DfT staff, the Ministerial team, and the top-level managers in the company use the service? Probably not very much. Probably less than you do, even with your relatively short commute every day. Besides, Southern are up to 31 strike days now. One lost strike day chosen at the weekend will probably not turn out to be a large % of the total number of lost days. And no TOCs other than Merseyrail go anywhere particularly near Aintree.

 

[northwichcat]

If there's one strike day when you're at work, you're probably going to:
-Book a day of annual leave
-Arrange to work from home (or make it up some other way if you're lucky enough to be on flexitime and have an understanding boss)
-Drive to work
-Get a lift or carshare, drive or get the bus to another station served by another train company
-If your station does have a service, as a last resort go to the not so great trouble of catching the train before the one you normally do

Pretty much everyone has an option for one day off work. But would you go to the Grand National next weekend? You'd probably stay away depriving many different companies of revenue. Or if you do go, and its chaos, are you going to go next year? Next time you're having a day out are you likely to consider the train again after that farce?

There will almost certainly be another strike on a weekday coming a few weeks behind this one. Perhaps it will then follow in the Southern footsteps with 2/3 day ones, and then maybe a whole week, depending on what the other Union and the company say between now and then. Taking this oppourtunity to ruin a key event for thousands which doesn't happen on a lot of other days for them to go to instead is a clever move.

I imagine most Saturday tickets were sold well in advance of the RMT announcing a strike. If they had picked a weekday with evening Premier League matches it would have probably had more effect as Northern wouldn't be able to run some morning commuter services and still be running services after the matches have finished.

 

[northwichcat]

Does this sound like it's going to be the last day of strike action? :/ Because it doesn't to me.

Northern did an awful job of managing contingencies last time, with a number of urban stations left with no trains, no replacement buses and no alternatives. In many ways it was worse than Southern, which is difficult to believe. I don't want any more of these strikes any day of the week.

Personally I think Arriva did a much better job than the previous operator did with the strikes just after Christmas one year. That time most lines had no services and there were no replacement buses and as the strikes were on BHs it meant that no normal buses were operating in some towns.

 

[yorksrob]

Who are 'the people who matter'? They're only interested in inconveniencing you, the everyday customer, ultimately. How else can they cause disruption? How much do the DfT staff, the Ministerial team, and the top-level managers in the company use the service? Probably not very much. Probably less than you do, even with your relatively short commute every day. Besides, Southern are up to 31 strike days now. One lost strike day chosen at the weekend will probably not turn out to be a large % of the total number of lost days. And no TOCs other than Merseyrail go anywhere particularly near Aintree.

The managers and captains of industry who find that their staff are having difficulty getting into work. When they start complaining Government are more likely to listen.

 

[4973]

The managers and captains of industry who find that their staff are having difficulty getting into work. When they start complaining Government are more likely to listen.

The 'captains of industry' viewpoint is probably encapsulated in this report http://http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/24/technology/robots-jobs-us-workers-uk/index.html.

I make no comment about the desirability of the likely outcome.

 

[mrbluelips]

Northern did an awful job of managing contingencies last time

I couldn't disagree more.

Granted, services were limited and some stations didn't have any service at all. But that's what a strike is supposed to achieve isn't it...

As a customer/passenger I was really pleased with their efforts and communication.

I think considering the strike, Northern made efforts to have services running, and a 40% service IMO is pretty good. The website was comprehensive with information well in advance showing what services would run and what wouldn't etc.

My station had no service at all on the day, but because of the advance information I was able to make plans so not to miss work.

I only hope their efforts are replicated for all future strike days.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern strike timetables for April 8th available here: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/industrial-action

 

[Smidster]

I couldn't disagree more.

Granted, services were limited and some stations didn't have any service at all. But that's what a strike is supposed to achieve isn't it...

As a customer/passenger I was really pleased with their efforts and communication.

I think considering the strike, Northern made efforts to have services running, and a 40% service IMO is pretty good. The website was comprehensive with information well in advance showing what services would run and what wouldn't etc.

My station had no service at all on the day, but because of the advance information I was able to make plans so not to miss work.

I only hope their efforts are replicated for all future strike days.

I agree - i think that given the circumstances Northern actually did well with the last strike. Obviously it wasn't a full service but my sense is that the main commuter routes had a limited service. It is frustrating for those who use the stations that were omitted but if you have limited resources you need to make tough decisions.

It is interesting that they seem to be running more trains (later)next weekend - we will see what happens.

It is of course one thing to plan for a one day and one off event - the bigger test will come the longer action goes on for or if we have multi day events.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I agree - i think that given the circumstances Northern actually did well with the last strike. Obviously it wasn't a full service but my sense is that the main commuter routes had a limited service. It is frustrating for those who use the stations that were omitted but if you have limited resources you need to make tough decisions.

It is interesting that they seem to be running more trains (later)next weekend - we will see what happens.

It is of course one thing to plan for a one day and one off event - the bigger test will come the longer action goes on for or if we have multi day events.

More Shortcut Trained office staff. One day this will result in someone getting seriously hurt and then the s**t will hit thye fan and quite rightly so. The trouble is for anyone who is management it is in their contracts to do this so called strike busting so most Traincrew do not actually blame them as we know they have no choice otherwise they face being disciplined. However taking shortcuts to make a company look good will eventually end up with an "incident". Their lack of proper training and experience makes them a danger but like I have said they bdo not have a choice.

 

[Andrew32]

Fresh talks on Wednesday provides the slightest glimmer of hope.