Terror attack close to/outside Parliament

[61653 HTAFC]

Not saying it's nothing, it's a terrorist outrage (or a lone nutter.) However a lot more people have been killed at work and far more die as a result of work. How much publicity do they get? Maybe we should keep it in context.

Terrorism and mental health are not mutually exclusive, look at the Jo Cox assassination for example. I sort of get your point about not giving the oxygen of publicity, but with events like this it isn't realistic. Certainly the fact that attempts were made to save the assailant who had just killed numerous people shows that the people who advocate such acts have already lost the moral argument. If the motive was Islamic fundamentalism, had the assailant been saved and subsequently tried in court it would prevent him being a martyr to his cause and deprive him of his 70 virgins in the sky.

 

[Cletus]

Offender unofficially named as Trevor Brooks a well-known extremist.

 

[zuriblue]

Offender unofficially named as Trevor Brooks a well-known extremist.

According to Brooks' solicitor he's currently in jail. (Comment from Andrew Neil)

 

[Darandio]

According to Brooks' solicitor he's currently in jail. (Comment from Andrew Neil)

Having just done a Google search on him, he does very much resemble the man shown on the stretcher on the BBC live page.

 

[Cletus]

Oh dear. someone on the internet getting it wrong and then someone else (me) making it worse?

 

[Darandio]

Oh dear. someone on the internet getting it wrong and then someone else (me) making it worse?

Maybe, maybe not. Nothing can probably be dismissed, it's certainly starting to be widely reported.

 

[phoenixcronin]

Rather ridiculous that a known Islamist like him wasn't under constant surveillance i.e. outside his house.

 

[Railops]

Rather ridiculous that a known Islamist like him wasn't under constant surveillance i.e. outside his house.

Ch 4 now backtracking as although it certainly looks like him it may not be.

 

[Cletus]

Confirmed that Brooks is definitely still in jail.

 

[ExRes]

Rather ridiculous that a known Islamist like him wasn't under constant surveillance i.e. outside his house.

I wondered how long it would be before this was brought up, perhaps some thought ought to be given to how many terrorists of all persuasions there are, how many thieves, bank robbers, burglars, sex perverts and drunken drivers, how many sports events and demonstrations there are each and every day, how can we possibly expect the security services to constantly watch everybody and everywhere at all times?

 

[furnessvale]

Rather ridiculous that a known Islamist like him wasn't under constant surveillance i.e. outside his house.

How many people does it take to make constant surveillance of ONE person?

Multiply by the approximately 5000 known terrorist risks on out streets today.

I know, the old 9 o'clock shudders come into play,
"never mind the other 4999, you shudder been watching this one!"

Great thing is hindsight.

 

[R4_GRN]

No doubt there will be calls for all police to be routinely armed. Even in the light of today's incident I personally would not support this.

No neither would I, but does this incident not show that the police exercise caution before drawing a weapon?

We will never know if policeman got it wrong in not drawing weapon, I think not, training must have kicked in, unless attacker hid weapons and policeman not aware of car hitting public on bridge.

I hope it is not because he was unsure if seniors would not back him up if he had drawn weapon.

Easy to sit at a desk, take time to decide, and declare the policeman got it wrong when faced with a life threatening decision with seconds to get it right.

 

[Busaholic]

No neither would I, but does this incident not show that the police exercise caution before drawing a weapon?

We will never know if policeman got it wrong in not drawing weapon, I think not, training must have kicked in, unless attacker hid weapons and policeman not aware of car hitting public on bridge.

I hope it is not because he was unsure if seniors would not back him up if he had drawn weapon.

Easy to sit at a desk, take time to decide, and declare the policeman got it wrong when faced with a life threatening decision with seconds to get it right.

The policeman who died was unarmed - I am surprised that, given the role he was fulfilling, he and his immediate colleague were placed in that position.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The policeman who died was unarmed - I am surprised that, given the role he was fulfilling, he and his immediate colleague were placed in that position.

I would have expected all coppers on duty within a certain radius of the Houses of Parliament to be at least armed with a taser if not a firearm

 

[richw]

The policeman who died was unarmed - I am surprised that, given the role he was fulfilling, he and his immediate colleague were placed in that position.

The BBC live feed says he was an armed officer.

 

[Busaholic]

I would have expected all coppers on duty within a certain radius of the Houses of Parliament to be at least armed with a taser if not a firearm

The last line of defence of Parliament, represented by that poor policeman, should surely be somebody with the capability of shooting dead, even though you hope it's never needed. Now we know it is.

 

[jon0844]

The policeman who died was unarmed - I am surprised that, given the role he was fulfilling, he and his immediate colleague were placed in that position.

I've heard different stories on whether he was armed or not, but having walked by many times (and having been screened for entry at the other entrance further up), I think we like to have a friendly face to the public - and keep the armed people more hidden.

Downing Street and other places are exceptions, and I guess that if the very first line of defence here were unarmed, that will immediately change.

These entrances are always going to be weak links. If some charges through, armed officers can quickly take action, but how can they have time to react to what happens at the entrance?

Perhaps the next step will be large gates that nobody can get through until clearing security, which itself will be shielded from the outside.

But we don't want to turn places into fortresses do we. If we give in on this, then you can't say the terrorists will never win.

 

[Busaholic]

I've heard different stories on whether he was armed or not, but having walked by many times (and having been screened for entry at the other entrance further up), I think we like to have a friendly face to the public - and keep the armed people more hidden.

Downing Street and other places are exceptions, and I guess that if the very first line of defence here were unarmed, that will immediately change.

These entrances are always going to be weak links. If some charges through, armed officers can quickly take action, but how can they have time to react to what happens at the entrance?

Perhaps the next step will be large gates that nobody can get through until clearing security, which itself will be shielded from the outside.

But we don't want to turn places into fortresses do we. If we give in on this, then you can't say the terrorists will never win.

On the whole I agree with you, I am only saying that surely that officer should have been armed, along with his colleague, so that his colleague could have taken action. It was certainly reported for a couple of hours after the incident that the policeman was unarmed, and that seemed to have been confirmed in an interview with Quentin Letts, the Daily Mail parliamentary reporter, who saw it all from the other side of the glass and stated that the colleague of the dead officer was appealing for armed police who then arrived quickly and did the necessary.

 

[jon0844]

Police have confirmed now he was unarmed.

Beyond considering arming everyone in such locations, I think that the police did what they needed to do and couldn't have done anything more.

 

[RichmondCommu]

My wife is a serving police officer with the Met, has been on duty today and received the tightest of hugs when I got home tonight. Sadly the family of another police officer will never again be able to hug them and tell them how much they love them. Every time a police officer sets off for work they know there's a chance that they will never make it home but nevertheless it's a very sad day.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

These entrances are always going to be weak links. If some charges through, armed officers can quickly take action, but how can they have time to react to what happens at the entrance?

Perhaps the next step will be large gates that nobody can get through until clearing security, which itself will be shielded from the outside.

But we don't want to turn places into fortresses do we. If we give in on this, then you can't say the terrorists will never win.

Exactly. And if you do put large gates in, one possible effect could be that you end up with queues of people in front of the gates, creating a new potential target.

In the end, whatever you do at places like Westminster, there's going to be some boundary somewhere between 'public' and 'highly protected', and that boundary will either become an attractive target for terrorists, or become the point at which terrorists are likely to do the most harm before they get stopped - which seems to be what's happened here. You can move the boundary, but I doubt you can ever remove it.

I'm not convinced that anything more could have been done today, but I guess we'll need to wait until the full facts emerge. Certainly, the speed with which the police did respond does seem, based on what we know so far, to be very good.

Thoughts with all those affected.

 

[Bald Rick]

When I go to Parliament, the police at the vehicle gates (the first line of defence) appear to be unarmed, regular cops, albeit no doubt with special training given what they are protecting. However, the overtly armed officers are only a few metres behind, (second line) always in pairs, and always 'switched on'. Other officers are in that area, again not obviously armed.

From the aerial footage it appears that the confrontation happened several metres inside the gates. Speculation: it looks like the attacker went through the gate, which would be relatively easy to do by dodging a couple of (apparently) unarmed officers, and either:

a) attacked one of them on his way through perhaps as he gave chase, or,
b) was stopped by an officer in the second line, whom he then attacked.

Obviously he got no further, and has demonstrated why armed police go round in pairs.

A very sad day. But one where the professionalism and preparation of the police and emergency services has shone through.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Police have confirmed now he was unarmed.

Beyond considering arming everyone in such locations, I think that the police did what they needed to do and couldn't have done anything more.

Being armed is certainly no panacea. For all we know, the attacker may have assumed the policeman was armed and trying to get his firearm, as per the Orly airport incident, in which case this would have potentially given the attacker access to a weapon.

Guns are not much use in a close-up confrontation and if the policeman was seemingly caught unawares by the attacker, it might not have been possible to use his weapon. Similarly an armed colleague near-by might not have fired to stop the attack, at risk of hitting the officer.


A tragic incident and thoughts with all affected.

 

[Groningen]

I am not sure whether this has been posted already, but dutch media say that 1 of the pictures shown is not real attacker, but somebody else.

 

[Domh245]

Now announced that the death toll is up to 5 and 40 injured. The Police Officer who was killed has been named as Keith Palmer, 48.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I am not sure whether this has been posted already, but dutch media say that 1 of the pictures shown is not real attacker, but somebody else.

From Twitter earlier, there was footage on Russian media that was incorrect, seemed to be of a different event.

The descriptions of the attacker lead some to believe it was a convinced Islamist from London so pictures of him we circulating, including on Channel 4 news I believe, but he is confirmed as being still in prison.

 

[Busaholic]

The vehicle used was hired from Enterprise in Birmingham on March 16th, apparently.

 

[A Challenge]

At least I get other news this morning, and there are other programs on TV (BBC anyway didn't have anything else)

 

[ExRes]

At least I get other news this morning, and there are other programs on TV (BBC anyway didn't have anything else)

I'm sure we're all very pleased for you, it must have been hell missing The Chase or a Bargain Hunt repeat, thank goodness they never saturate TV with things like sport

 

[KN1]

At least I get other news this morning, and there are other programs on TV (BBC anyway didn't have anything else)

Bit of a heartless point of view I reckon.