Cambridge North: Cambridge's new station

[MikeWM]

Many people that I also travel with, are also heading to the Science Park. And like me were looking forward to saving money on Plusbus fares with the Park only being ten minutes walk away.

Of course with the usual amount of joined-up thinking, Stagecoach decided to reduce by 60% the number of direct buses from the existing railway station to the Science Park (10 an hour to 4 an hour) in November last year.

I was hoping this was going to be a temporary irritation, irrelevant from May when I could use the new station instead - but apparently not.

 

[MikeWM]

There will be a (small) number of GA trains calling at Ely and Cambridge North in that time.

The ex-Norwichs are already busy too (the 0839 off Ely this morning was full and standing, for example) so if people actually try to use the new station on these few trains that will actually stop, it saems these are in serious danger of becoming severely overcrowded too.

At my last job I had a colleague who commuted Waterbeach-Whittlesford, there were often mornings where he was late because he could not board the train at Waterbeach. Sadly until those platform extensions are done GN are right not to stop at both, especially in peak time. Using SDO on 387s wouldn't really be feasible in this situation.

I do understand this (well, apart from why SDO can't be used - other parts of the network seem to cope perfectly well with it, I'm not sure I see any reason why it wouldn't work for Waterbeach).

But I think it is going to be rather hard to explain to people why a shiny new station has been built - with the explicit promise that it will help commuters to Cambridge - when it will be useless to a great number of those potential commuters because most trains won't stop at it until [some unspecified point in the future when some not-obviously-related infrastructure work is done].

And even though I understand the reasons, it is still a very disappointing state of affairs.

 

[306024]

The shiny new station has been built, but it is not clear just how much consideration there was over timetabling when the decision was taken to build it.

There are constraints for GN over the single line sections on the Kings Lynn branch north of Ely, and of course over Welwyn viaduct, which would make calls in the Kings Cross - Kings Lynn service problematic. For Cross Country pathing through Stansted tunnel and crew breaks at Stansted are another consideration.

The East Anglia sectional appendix is still showing no more than 5 EMUs are allowed between Milton and Littleport, so unless there has been an undocumented power supply upgrade, that is another limitation on longer trains from Ely.

 

[philjo]

Could the AGA Stansted-Cambridge service extend to Ely as that is only 4 coaches (though I think it only runs off-peak ) ?

 

[D365]

The East Anglia sectional appendix is still showing no more than 5 EMUs are allowed between Milton and Littleport, so unless there has been an undocumented power supply upgrade, that is another limitation on longer trains from Ely.

Won't there be some sort of upgrade for the increased power requirement of the Class 387s? Especially if they will be running in multiple.

 

[Gathursty]

Is there any double-arrow signage up at the station (or will be by the time Easter holiday approaches)?
Can you get close enough to the station to take reasonable pictures at the moment (or by Easter)?

Thanks

 

[jopsuk]

The East Anglia sectional appendix is still showing no more than 5 EMUs are allowed between Milton and Littleport, so unless there has been an undocumented power supply upgrade, that is another limitation on longer trains from Ely.

Curious. Pretty sure there's been power supply upgrades and there's some (limited stop) peak services go to Ely and Kings Lynn that are 8 car.

 

[Ianno87]

The ex-Norwichs are already busy too (the 0839 off Ely this morning was full and standing, for example) so if people actually try to use the new station on these few trains that will actually stop, it saems these are in serious danger of becoming severely overcrowded too.



I do understand this (well, apart from why SDO can't be used - other parts of the network seem to cope perfectly well with it, I'm not sure I see any reason why it wouldn't work for Waterbeach).

But I think it is going to be rather hard to explain to people why a shiny new station has been built - with the explicit promise that it will help commuters to Cambridge - when it will be useless to a great number of those potential commuters because most trains won't stop at it until [some unspecified point in the future when some not-obviously-related infrastructure work is done].

And even though I understand the reasons, it is still a very disappointing state of affairs.

Waterbeach station sits astride the level crossing - 8-car trains calling in either direction would block the crossing.

 

[Ianno87]

Could the AGA Stansted-Cambridge service extend to Ely as that is only 4 coaches (though I think it only runs off-peak ) ?

Only runs off-peak, using spare units from the peak.

Also, every extra train you run increases the risk on the multitude of Level Crossings on the route.

 

[Fuzzytop]

I think the schedule consultation had both the hourly Cambridge cruisers calling at Cambridge North once the timetable has been recast. agree with above that it's a rather disappointing start, and I can imagine the local rags taking a (quite justifiable) swipe...

though of course another problem with extending everything to Ely involves the very limited facilities for holding trains there, considering that all three platforms get used pretty intensively. The new Ely-terminators on the GN side from May seem to be booked into Platform 3A on RTT, at the same time as the EM services are reversing on the opposite end, which must surely limit those services to 4 cars north of Cambridge? (and indeed would Ely have any capacity to turn back even more trains there without blocking the main line?)

 

[bspahh]

You may already know: the three letter code for Cambridge North is CMB Source:. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/CMB.aspx

It is 11 weeks until the scheduled opening. Do you know when the fares for tickets to Cambridge North will be published? They aren't listed at www.brfares.com or www.thetrainline.com at the moment.

 

[bspahh]

I wish this were true, but the situation for commuters from the north is significantly worse even than that under the current proposed timetable - as well as no XC stops, no GN train from the north is going to call between 0727 and 1019 (!).

I'm not saying its good, but its not quite that bad. The Norwich-Cambridge services stop as does the 08:00 to Liverpool Street and the 10.07 from Great Northern.

These are the direct trains from Ely to Cambridge North on May 30th for the morning commute according to http://www.opentraintimes.com

Ely   CMB   Code
06.38 06.53 2T09
07.15 07.27 2T11
07.31 07.46 1K59
08:00 08:14 2H14
08.37 08.50 1K61
09.38 09.50 1K65
10.07 10.19 1T57

 

[whittlesfordok]

From the south what are the times peak from whittlesford to Cambridge North it could be of interest for me in Job searches also any one got idea of fares?

 

[Fuzzytop]

From the south what are the times peak from whittlesford to Cambridge North it could be of interest for me in Job searches also any one got idea of fares?

Personally haven't the foggiest on exact fares, but weeklies will come out between those for Cambridge (£22.90) and Waterbeach (£30.90), and anytime day returns somewhere between £6.00 and £8.30. Don't think anything more certain has been published yet.

From a few quick RTT searches it seems the first direct train on weekdays will be 2H08, dep Whittlesford Parkway 0843 arr Cambridge North 0900. Whether they go for a B3 or B4 restriction code, as it's on the cusp of the peak this will likely be the only direct service for which an Anytime would be required, further direct off-peak services run pretty much hourly after that.

Anything earlier than 0843 currently looks like it'll require a change at Cambridge. It appears the earlier arrivals will sit at Cambridge for just shy of 25 minutes, exactly the same amount of time allocated for later trains to run up to Cambridge North and back - wonder why it can't happen? Crew rostering I guess?

 

[whittlesfordok]

This still could be ok as where my wife works it will be about a 5 minute walk to this new station which will be quicker that trying to get across Cambridge ( at the moment a route is all around wills mother including the a14. Everyone goes on about the science park but there is a lot of other employment nearer the new station.

 

[jopsuk]

Anything earlier than 0843 currently looks like it'll require a change at Cambridge. It appears the earlier arrivals will sit at Cambridge for just shy of 25 minutes, exactly the same amount of time allocated for later trains to run up to Cambridge North and back - wonder why it can't happen? Crew rostering I guess?

Could also be a line capacity issue- before then there's additional (to the standard pattern) Ely and Kings Lynn starters, both GN and GA. There's a problem level crossing just to the south of the station, there's possibly an agreement to limit the time the barriers are down to avoid more issues with the various scaffolders, plasterers and driveway builders that live east of the railway there. Ideally there would be a bridge north of the station, but that's, what, £10million? More?

 

[whittlesfordok]

Fen road level crossing does need to be shut but access could be via A14 or waterbeach with a passenger/ cycle way there is not massive housing north of the level crossing

 

[dk1]

I would expect things to sort themselves out over time & loads to spread. The 07:37 ex-Norwich is always busy from Ely at 08:39 but unless the previous service has been cancelled it's not crush loaded & the journey time will only be 13mins after all. I haven't been told that any of the Milton-Littleport EMU restrictions have been lifted as yet. Some people working at/around the Science Park will hopefully be able to change their hours to suit better the train service provision until it builds up & maybe some extra capacity can be found if it exceeds expectations.

 

[DJ_K666]

Your rule works very well on the basis that there are lots of places where N/S/E/W look like prefixes - but really they aren't, like East Grinstead (no West Grinstead :P) or North Road.

East Garforth, North Llanrwst, South Bank and Allens West are some examples that create a problem in both senses. As far as stations go, there are actually quite a lot.

West Grinstead is near Horsham

 

[Ianno87]

Could also be a line capacity issue- before then there's additional (to the standard pattern) Ely and Kings Lynn starters, both GN and GA. There's a problem level crossing just to the south of the station, there's possibly an agreement to limit the time the barriers are down to avoid more issues with the various scaffolders, plasterers and driveway builders that live east of the railway there. Ideally there would be a bridge north of the station, but that's, what, £10million? More?

Also, 0645-0815 ish, through Platform capacity at Cambridge is at a bit of a premium with London peak trains being made up to 12-cars in Platforms 1 & 7, so constrains being able to push stuff through the station.

 

[Class 170101]

Ithough of course another problem with extending everything to Ely involves the very limited facilities for holding trains there, considering that all three platforms get used pretty intensively. The new Ely-terminators on the GN side from May seem to be booked into Platform 3A on RTT, at the same time as the EM services are reversing on the opposite end, which must surely limit those services to 4 cars north of Cambridge? (and indeed would Ely have any capacity to turn back even more trains there without blocking the main line?)

Ely Platforms are 250 metres in the Sectional Appendix I believe. So an 8 car Class 365 and a 2 car 158 should fit. I didn't think permissive working - platform sharing was permitted at Ely only attaching and detaching so this has changed.

 

[Class 170101]

The East Anglia sectional appendix is still showing no more than 5 EMUs are allowed between Milton and Littleport, so unless there has been an undocumented power supply upgrade, that is another limitation on longer trains from Ely.

This hasn't changed with 5 EMUs only permitted at any one time in this section with another five north of Littleport. 8 cars are permitted but stopping at Cambridge North, Ely, Downham Market and Kings Lynn.

12 carriage Trains are permitted to Cambridge North as this is just south of Milton. However it will be interesting if the points fail leaving Cambridge North with a 12 carriage train in the bay and another 12 carriage train waiting outside to enter it.

 

[Firesprite]

This hasn't changed with 5 EMUs only permitted at any one time in this section with another five north of Littleport. 8 cars are permitted but stopping at Cambridge North, Ely, Downham Market and Kings Lynn.

12 carriage Trains are permitted to Cambridge North as this is just south of Milton. However it will be interesting if the points fail leaving Cambridge North with a 12 carriage train in the bay and another 12 carriage train waiting outside to enter it.

They should have installed an loop rather than a bay. It would be more flexible layout.

 

[dk1]

Ely Platforms are 250 metres in the Sectional Appendix I believe. So an 8 car Class 365 and a 2 car 158 should fit. I didn't think permissive working - platform sharing was permitted at Ely only attaching and detaching so this has changed.

Permissive working is allowed throughout Ely. Used it many times especially during disruption/engineering. Not sure why you think detaching/attatching only would be allowed as what's the difference? Very flexible location.

 

[Ianno87]

This hasn't changed with 5 EMUs only permitted at any one time in this section with another five north of Littleport. 8 cars are permitted but stopping at Cambridge North, Ely, Downham Market and Kings Lynn.

12 carriage Trains are permitted to Cambridge North as this is just south of Milton. However it will be interesting if the points fail leaving Cambridge North with a 12 carriage train in the bay and another 12 carriage train waiting outside to enter it.

I'm not sure, but the signalling might be set up so that a train can be turned back in the Down platform in extremis (using the same trailing crossover south of the station).

Plus, Cambridge North is so close to Cambridge anyway that you'd have plenty of time after figuring out the points had failed to prevent a second train bound for the bay from proceeding beyond Cambridge.

 

[LAX54]

Permissive working is allowed throughout Ely. Used it many times especially during disruption/engineering. Not sure why you think detaching/attatching only would be allowed as what's the difference? Very flexible location.

Colchester, we can split and attach, but only 'platform share' in times of disruption. Ipswich however we can 'share' (but the ORR or whoever did try to stop it a few years ago ! )

 

[dk1]

Colchester, we can split and attach, but only 'platform share' in times of disruption. Ipswich however we can 'share' (but the ORR or whoever did try to stop it a few years ago ! )

Can you just imagine Ipswich working like that now? There really are some numpties in the railway industry & they are usually at or near the top :roll:

 

[Class 170101]

Colchester, we can split and attach, but only 'platform share' in times of disruption. Ipswich however we can 'share' (but the ORR or whoever did try to stop it a few years ago ! )

Colchester as I understand is platform share in 5 and 6 and attach / detach any time. 1 to 4 attach and detach only. Correct or wrong am I?

 

[radamfi]

Are there any details of the bus services that will serve the station?

 

[Spamcan81]

The station most deserving of being renamed 'Olivia Newton-John' would have to be Sandy, surely?

(Tell me more, tell me more...!)

Very witty but have you seen the size of Sandy Airport?