ATW spend half a million on Pacer refreshes

[gareth950]

ATW are slowly refreshing their Pacers and WiFi will even be fitted on 150s within the next year.

Too little, too late? Are ATW trying to 'impress' passengers and the WG ahead of the new franchise announcement by the end of the year? And maybe they know something we don't by refreshing the 142s and 143s when the general consensus is Pacers will be gone within 3 years.

Sources including a time-lapse video:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/arriva-trains-wales-spending-nearly-12501400
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/bosses-arriva-trains-wales-answered-12516098

"We are currently investing £500,000 in refreshing the interiors of all 30 our class 142s and 143 pacer trains, which are most commonly used on the Valleys network."

Good news! Wi-Fi is soon to be available on all of our class 150, 158 and 175 trains and should all be installed by end of April 2017. As soon as a train is fitted with Wi-Fi it is released back into service for use straightaway.

"The DfT have invested circa. £2.5 million to provide this service but there is a limited funding pot to share with a number of train companies. Arriva Trains Wales bid for all our fleet to be fitted, but the Department for Transport has decided not to fit the class 142, 143, 153 and Long Hauled Coaching stock due to the potential for them being retired from service in the next few years.

 

[387star]

Looks like barely anything is changing except the sear covers

What is happening with the 150s anyway...mwould have thought they need the 2020 mods...some have had amfuoo refresh whilst others are untouched

Are the ex wessex units still with wessex grab rails?

 

[Great_Western]

142/143/150 all getting a similar interior refresh/repaint with the latter two also getting put in to the new livery. As far as I am aware DDA mods will only happen after the new franchise has been sorted out. There are still a few running around with various wessex pink bits, also still one running around with the valley lines red/green seating moquette as of a few weeks ago.

On a side note, more might be changing in the summer as there are still rumours going around about the 175's going to Northern with a similar number of 158's coming down to us. How true that is I dont know

 

[gareth950]

There are currently no plans in Wales for any of ATW's stock to start having 2020 mods. So Wales faces a looming crisis with 2020 mods.

As for the 150s its very random. Some have had a full exterior repaint and interior refresh, others the repaint but no refresh, some the refresh but no repaint, some have just had new seat covers, some have had no repaint or refresh at all.

I'd have thought the trains that ATW should be refreshing internally and at least refilling and recovering the seats are the 175s. They are in need of a more thorough overhaul that shown here however.

EDIT: Great_Western beat me to it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just replacing manky seat covers, then. Can't see a problem with that, they should get on with doing the disgusting 150s as well.

 

[gareth950]

Just replacing manky seat covers, then. Can't see a problem with that, they should get on with doing the disgusting 150s as well.

To be fair, the ATW 150s have always been a lot better internally than any 150s from other operators. The original 3+2 seating on 150s in Wales went a long time ago.

 

[Great_Western]

To be fair, the ATW 150s have always been a lot better internally than any 150s from other operators. The original 3+2 seating on 150s in Wales went a long time ago.

The ATW fleet might not be the cleanest in the UK, But you have to say, They're by far the most consistant in standards across the fleet. The sprinters and pacers are, although not perfect, when you compare them to the likes of Northern...

 

[lfc2014uk]

Unless the new franchise winner buys new fleet of trains or gets a large hand Me downs from other operators. W&B are going to be well short of units when the new European Access Laws come in effect in 2020 as they won't be able to use Class 142/3. Only alternative is to upgrade them to class 144e and they will last for the lifetime of franchise by which time to further rolling stock will be provided.

 

[47802]

Unless the new franchise winner buys new fleet of trains or gets a large hand Me downs from other operators. W&B are going to be well short of units when the new European Access Laws come in effect in 2020 as they won't be able to use Class 142/3. Only alternative is to upgrade them to class 144e and they will last for the lifetime of franchise by which time to further rolling stock will be provided.

Or could just do a minimal upgrade and lock the Toilets out of use and try and concentrate them on shorter routes. After all if the valleys goes to light rail they are unlikely to have Toilets anyway.

 

[Mordac]

ATW are slowly refreshing their Pacers and WiFi will even be fitted on 150s within the next year.


Too little, too late? Are ATW trying to 'impress' passengers and the WG ahead of the new franchise announcement by the end of the year? And maybe they know something we don't by refreshing the 142s and 143s when the general consensus is Pacers will be gone within 3 years.

Sources including a time-lapse video:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/arriva-trains-wales-spending-nearly-12501400
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/bosses-arriva-trains-wales-answered-12516098

Watching that time-lapse video gave me a horrible thought they were going to replace all seating with longitudinal seating! Fortunately it was just how they stack the seats.

 

[asylumxl]

Doesn't look too bad!

Ironically, Pacers and Sprinters chugging around in Wales are going to have WiFi, meanwhile Thameslink's brand new trains don't. The mind boggles.

 

[BestWestern]

To be fair, the ATW 150s have always been a lot better internally than any 150s from other operators. The original 3+2 seating on 150s in Wales went a long time ago.

I'd have to suggest that the FGW 150/2 refurb is better. Particularly as it lacks ATW's then-current hideous, headache-inducing green and purple stripes. Uggh.

 

[Great_Western]

I'd have to suggest that the FGW 150/2 refurb is better. Particularly as it lacks ATW's then-current hideous, headache-inducing green and purple stripes. Uggh.

I'd agree the FGW interior is a bit more welcoming. But atleast with ATW you dont run the risk of being stuck on a 150/1 with those hideous 3+2 seats for a 2 hour + journey

 

[WelshBluebird]

Does it really cost half a million to clean them and replace the seat coverings? Maybe I am just being naive but that sounds like quite a lot of money for not a huge amount of benefit.

 

[Starmill]

Quite a number of ATW 150s have had the refresh and repaint Neil. Even the awful ones are in far better condition than the Northern fleet. Although I note that the point was made prior to your comment.

 

[Kite159]

Good news, with the pending redrawal from the EU means the UK Government can scrap the 2020 deadline meaning the Welsh pacers will be around for ever more

I did notice last Saturday that some of the seats on the pacers were a mismatch of colouring. Agreed about the ATW 150s being in better condition than the 3+2 examples found in Northern

 

[sprinterguy]

Does it really cost half a million to clean them and replace the seat coverings? Maybe I am just being naive but that sounds like quite a lot of money for not a huge amount of benefit.

£430,000 for sixty six 2-car trains, or just over £3,250 per carriage, seems like a very reasonable deal by railway standards. Especially when that seems to deliver a more appealing interior, albeit lacking PRM TSI compliance amendments, than Northern have so far offered with their supposed full refurbishments.

 

[bnsf734]

Good news, with the pending redrawal from the EU means the UK Government can scrap the 2020 deadline meaning the Welsh pacers will be around for ever more

I did notice last Saturday that some of the seats on the pacers were a mismatch of colouring. Agreed about the ATW 150s being in better condition than the 3+2 examples found in Northern

I think you will find the 2020 deadline is a UK law, not a European one.

 

[WelshBluebird]

£430,000 for sixty six 2-car trains, or just over £3,250 per carriage, seems like a very reasonable deal by railway standards. Especially when that seems to deliver a more appealing interior, albeit lacking PRM TSI compliance amendments, than Northern have so far offered with their supposed full refurbishments.

The other quote from them suggests the almost 500k is just the 30 pacers though. If that figure includes doing the same for the 150's aswell, then I am a less surprised by the cost!

 

[M1544]

The ATW 142s look far more superior than Northern's 142 sets especially with this refresh. Shame they can't put similar seats in the ex Merseyrail sets!

 

[sprinterguy]

The ATW 142s look far more superior than Northern's 142 sets especially with this refresh. Shame they can't put similar seats in the ex Merseyrail sets!

Too right. It's a shame that the opportunity was never taken to refurbish all of the Northern 142s to the same good standard upon the formation of the all encompassing Northern franchise, to give a homogenous fleet over both sides of the Pennines, given that they had over a decade in service left ahead of them at the time.

 

[Parallel]

Hmmm, well the refreshed seats look good, but why are they doing this now? (As someone else said, probably to be in the WG's good books). The units would look 100 times better if they got rid of those horrible green Valley lines walls and used something lighter, or the ATW turquoise instead. It's amazing how much better a unit can look with a deep clean, and a good colour scheme (new seats, flooring etc)

 

[PHILIPE]

Hmmm, well the refreshed seats look good, but why are they doing this now? (As someone else said, probably to be in the WG's good books). The units would look 100 times better if they got rid of those horrible green Valley lines walls and used something lighter, or the ATW turquoise instead. It's amazing how much better a unit can look with a deep clean, and a good colour scheme (new seats, flooring etc)

As suggested earlier, no more than a PR job for ATW to say they are spending money following a lot of negative publicity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thinking on, the seats appear to be the same type as in the 150s, so when the Pacers go the covers can be removed and re-used.

 

[D60]

Thinking on, the seats appear to be the same type as in the 150s, so when the Pacers go the covers can be removed and re-used.

I was thinking along the same lines...
Yes, these appear to be the same seats as in many 150s...
One of the suggestions on the ATW Pacer replacement thread was for replacements in the form of 150/1s from elsewhere still fitted with undesirable 3+2 seating...
What would be the scope for recycling these seats into 3+2-fitted 150/1s..?
What's the expected lifespan of re-furbished seats/seat-covers these days..?

 

[PHILIPE]

I was thinking along the same lines...
Yes, these appear to be the same seats as in many 150s...
One of the suggestions on the ATW Pacer replacement thread was for replacements in the form of 150/1s from elsewhere still fitted with undesirable 3+2 seating...
What would be the scope for recycling these seats into 3+2-fitted 150/1s..?
What's the expected lifespan of re-furbished seats/seat-covers these days..?

There will be no 150/1s going to ATW. Northerns stay where they are, GWR & LMs go to Northern as part of their Pacer replacement programme.

 

[47802]

There will be no 150/1s going to ATW. Northerns stay where they are, GWR & LMs go to Northern as part of their Pacer replacement programme.

Well as far as we know they are, clearly you would expect it to be the case although I have herd suggestions elsewhere that the LM 150's might not go to Northern but then they wouldn't be going to Wales either and we are only talking about a few units in that instance. Certainly I can not see the GWR 150's not going to Northern that would be a major change to the franchise plan not to mention the need to find a significant number of Non Pacer trains for Northern as an alternative.

 

[gareth950]

There will be no 150/1s going to ATW. Northerns stay where they are, GWR & LMs go to Northern as part of their Pacer replacement programme.

And as part of Wales' Pacer replacement programme we have.........oh wait............:roll:

Whether it's for Wales or Northern, more new build trains are needed to eliminate Pacers completely from the UK network.

 

[craigybagel]

Doesn't look too bad!

Ironically, Pacers and Sprinters chugging around in Wales are going to have WiFi, meanwhile Thameslink's brand new trains don't. The mind boggles.

No wi-fi for the pacers - current plan is 150s, 158s and 175s only. At least one member of each fleet has already been fitted.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Whether it's for Wales or Northern, more new build trains are needed to eliminate Pacers completely from the UK network.

New build trains cannot play much of a part in removing the Welsh Pacer fleet, unless a derrogation allows them to run a few extra years or a new entrant to the new DMU market emerges who has spare production capacity (the last of Northern's new DMUs aren't due in service until December 2019, so any additional units tagged onto the end of that order will arrive after the 2020 deadline). I think the only current order for trains other than EMUs that could be extended and still arrive by December 2019 would be a second batch of Mrk5a coaches (of a similar size to TPE's batch). I very much doubt that would be enough to replace 30 Pacers.