Fog blocking lines

[bengley]

Lay protection? If the SPAD was that severe, a GSM-R emergency call should have been sent out

I think you're misunderstanding the situation.

The driver was unable to take the train forwards. It was decided the easiest way to get around this situation was to declare the train a failure and get another train to couple to it and move it out of the way. In order to do this, assistance protection is required unless the line is set up for permissive working, which in this case, it wasn't.

 

[68000]

Now I understand

 

[QueensCurve]

I think you're misunderstanding the situation.

The driver was unable to take the train forwards. It was decided the easiest way to get around this situation was to declare the train a failure and get another train to couple to it and move it out of the way. In order to do this, assistance protection is required unless the line is set up for permissive working, which in this case, it wasn't.

I am pleasantly surprised the railway can still do that. I haven't personally seen it done for over 40y.

 

[GB]

Do you mean he/she was in shock? How bad was the SPAD?

Its not necessarily how bad the SPAD is, its about what comes next for the driver and in some cases it can be career ending.

 

[TEW]

I am pleasantly surprised the railway can still do that. I haven't personally seen it done for over 40y.

It's not exactly common, but it does happen from time to time. Sometimes a train will be unable to move itself due to a fault so it will require another train ro rescue it.

 

[GB]

This must be a win for the unions and their war on DOO!

 

[infobleep]

Exactly so! The PR function on the railway has gone to the dogs, with bland 'stock' responses being sent out to every complaint and only a vaguely relevant further response if they are pressed. Even the 'stock' answers from GTR are very often illiterate, so it's impossible to know what qualifies someone to work there - certainly not railway knowledge or communication skills!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Do you mean 'severe'?

Yes I did. Will correct.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This must be a win for the unions and their war on DOO!

As long as they make use of it in press releases and how the guard was useful the I can see it's usefulness in that sense.

Back on topic well done to the guard for doing what they should be doing in such safety cortical situations, their job. Long may they continue doing so.

 

[Wivenswold]

Worth pointing out that some areas had Freezing Fog this morning. Dew points below zero means that any moisture in the atmosphere freezes on contact with anything else cold. It can create new, rarely experienced problems like on my train this morning when ice stopped two units coupling, leaving Colchester 15 late minus half the train.

A 0c Dew Point (or wet bulb temperature) also turns rain to snow, so that explains why it can snow when the forecast temperature (Dry bulb temp) is 3 or even 4oC above freezing.

There's more to our varied whether than most people and passengers think.

 

[edwin_m]

I imagine fog can also lead to slippery rails. If the cause of the SPAD turns out to be low adhesion then maybe the fog was responsible after all.

 

[philthetube]

Do you mean he/she was in shock? How bad was the SPAD?

He could be in a state, he may have previous issues and consider that this may finish his/her career or it may be a new driver who panics and loses it, there are many possible reasons for him/her not being fir to continue.

 

[PHILIPE]

He could be in a state, he may have previous issues and consider that this may finish his/her career or it may be a new driver who panics and loses it, there are many possible reasons for him/her not being fir to continue.

I think I'm right in saying that with a Class A Spad the driver must be relieved in all cases and that the driver would have no say. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LAX54]

Last night the 'fog' was so thick we had to caution a few trains over CCTV's as the Signaller just could not guarantee the crossing was clear, it was patchy, one train may have to spoken to, yet 5 mins later fog had lifted.....only to come back again 15 - 20 mins later ! (That was the GEML)

Also see in the area referred to in this thread.. 2 Cat A's in about 45 mins !

 

[grid56126]

Interesting thread . .

Whilst Social media posts about service suspension due to fog may seem a little over the top, by page three we end up with some sobering facts.

There were 2 x CAT A SPADs and there were also some other restrictions imposed on the route. "Fog Working" is still very much a part of railway operations and tomorrow morning may well see some more fog related issues.

There were other fog related issues today, I dealt with one at work which I will not discuss here, but it was and they they are very real and not something to be tossed away in passing comments about social media posts being wrong.

My drive to work this morning varied from pretty lights in my street almost creating a Victorian / Edwardian picture postcard of street lights in a weak fog with -2 hoar frost to roads with zero fog and a temperature just above zero to a beautiful sunrise over white fields to a sudden fog bank with quite frightening visibility reduction and equally frightening driving in lane 2 and 3 of a motorway. I stayed put in lane 1 and will do so again tomorrow if the forecast for worse conditions is true.

 

[tsr]

It's not exactly common, but it does happen from time to time. Sometimes a train will be unable to move itself due to a fault so it will require another train ro rescue it.

I am personally aware of quite a few times assistance protection (due to a train declared a failure) has been done just in the last couple of weeks, both by drivers and guards in a variety of situations, ranging from requiring assistance due to poor adhesion, through to both today's and other situations of crew being unable to continue. In fact, over the last month or thereabouts, I can think of at least two or three colleagues of mine who've done it or been sent to a site where it's been needed.

 

[theironroad]

That's what you get when non-operating staff get jobs on the Twitter feed. I cringe at some of the explanations given. Some seem to not even understand the basics of running a railway let alone signalling. Talk about making the network even more of a laughing stock :roll:

Congratulations. You have won the post of the year award and as it is early in the year, you've won 2016 as well.

Control centre twitter keyboard warriors need to spend at least 3 months with guards and another 3 with drivers before they are allowed to tweet or social media comment on the operational railway.

 

[HSTEd]

Just another issue that will get better once we have ETCS.... if it ever arrives!

 

[Master29]

Is fog a solid object that can physically stop a train. Is this a new NR` safety policy?

 

[LAX54]

Is fog a solid object that can physically stop a train. Is this a new NR` safety policy?

May not be a solid object, but thick enough it will stop most things..cars, trains, ships, and of course aircraft (and aircraft more than trains)

 

[bramling]

May not be a solid object, but thick enough it will stop most things..cars, trains, ships, and of course aircraft (and aircraft more than trains)

Unfortunately it doesn't stop cars, nor slows them down, except when the inevitable happens and they collide into each other, then blame it on the weather rather than the competence of the driver. <sigh>

 

[Juniper Driver]

Its not necessarily how bad the SPAD is, its about what comes next for the driver and in some cases it can be career ending.

Definitely.

 

[dk1]

Congratulations. You have won the post of the year award and as it is early in the year, you've won 2016 as well.

Control centre twitter keyboard warriors need to spend at least 3 months with guards and another 3 with drivers before they are allowed to tweet or social media comment on the operational railway.

Wow!!! And that after winning £30 on a Christmas Scratchcard that I'd forgotten about till last week

 

[Minilad]

Congratulations. You have won the post of the year award and as it is early in the year, you've won 2016 as well.

Control centre twitter keyboard warriors need to spend at least 3 months with guards and another 3 with drivers before they are allowed to tweet or social media comment on the operational railway.

In every TOC?

 

[ComUtoR]

In every TOC?

Not mine that's for sure.

 

[Minilad]

Not mine that's for sure.

Mine neither. And judging by some twitter responses, from certain TOCs, I have seen they must forget what they learn pretty quickly if they do

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Is fog a solid object that can physically stop a train. Is this a new NR` safety policy?

Put it thia way, would you drive in it?

 

[SteveP29]

Exactly - my point was that it sounds very much like a different issue is being blamed on fog. A railway would not want to suspend its service, but may want to blame the weather rather than something within their control.

Surely the passengers would be more sympathetic to a driver taken ill at the controls than a lie about the weather?
Surely the amount of ranting on social media would then be minimal

 

[Minilad]

Surely the passengers would be more sympathetic to a driver taken ill at the controls than a lie about the weather?
Surely the amount of ranting on social media would then be minimal

I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[37038]

Ground fog forming around the River Tees at Croft this morning, fog banks forming around Tollerton. Pretty much standard for a cold clear night at the moment.
Today a little more with some intermediate fog banks in between Darlington and York.

Standard 26minute or so run, marginally above average in speed terms so no affect of fog up here

 

[theironroad]

In every TOC?

To be clear I meant that it would be desirable if they spent at least 3 months out and about.

I doubt any toc control social media staff spend any length of time with front line operational staff.

 

[Clip]

To be clear I meant that it would be desirable if they spent at least 3 months out and about.

I doubt any toc control social media staff spend any length of time with front line operational staff.

You seem to think that the staff in charge of social media just make things up like this :roll: however they put out what they are told to put out by their controllers so maybe you should be having a pop at them yeah?

And maybe read up the thread a bit more where it has already been pointed out that fog is tol blame for 2 other SPADs also so please stop putting out there that this is all rubbish when it has been clearly shown that fog has played a part.