The Windsor Link Railway

[snowball]

I am trying to work out how someone, who joined this site in 2009, who knows all about 455s, 458s, etc, could have not heard of this proposal. You 'walk between the two', so are presumably local. Mystifying.

Perhaps he's a person who lives almost entirely in, say, the traction and rolling stock subforum.

 

[rebmcr]

It's an economic impossibility.

 

[Monty]

I assume you mean this: www.windsorlink.co.uk.

That isn't a plan; it is a fantasy. Though that won't prevent this thread stretching to about 20 pages.

Basically, it's a real estate scam, if you read all of their plans and press releases very carefully the plan is reliant on getting their hands on the Riverside station and totally redeveloping into resident housing. They build the link at minimal cost, in turn NR signs over ownership of the old station and redunant track bed and they build on it for maximum profit.

 

[edwin_m]

Basically, it's a real estate scam, if you read all of their plans and press releases very carefully the plan is reliant on getting their hands on the Riverside station and totally redeveloping into resident housing. They build the link at minimal cost, in turn NR signs over ownership of the old station and redunant track bed and they build on it for maximum profit.

Considering that it would involve building portals, ramps and an underground station in Windsor, I think even "minimum cost" for the link would wipe out any profit on the housing.

 

[387star]

I live nowhere near Windsor !

But yes my main Interest is traction well observed, )

So very unlikely then

They seemed to think it was imminent lol

 

[PeterC]

I didn't bother reading through the entire site but I am having difficulty working out how they expect linking the two lines will, of itself, reduce journey times to London.

 

[swt class 450]

I heard from an acquaintance who lives in Windsor that there are plans to build a connection between the two Windsor stations? This is the first I have heard of these proposals

Currently one has to walk between the two. Of course Windsor Central is unwired at present. I believe it is still planned to wire the short branch to Slough with a long term goal of direct trains to Paddington.

Incidentally Windsor and Eton Riverside has seen a great variety of traction over the years ! I have arrived at the terminus on 455s during the 1990s then 450s during the noughties ... now it seems 455s are used on the line at weekends and 458s during the week

Those 458s will revert to the Reading line soon with the arrival of 707s...

Of course the Central line has only seen turbos for the past twenty years or so

Both stations are very attractive termini in their own ways but a link would be welcomed

I cant really see how a link could be built between the stations without knocking down most of the buildings and shops in the main shopping area and in the main part of the high street.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I cant really see how a link could be built between the stations without knocking down most of the buildings and shops in the main shopping area and in the main part of the high street.

From a brief look it can't so the plan is actually to divert the line before it gets to Windsor and Eton and build it in a cut and cover tunnel on a road to minimise disturbance. Apparently take a year to build the tunnel.

Doesnt mean I believe a word though!

 

[Monty]

It's highly unlikely that in the 21st century cut and cover will be allowed as the construction method of choice, if it ever happens it's likely to run deeper into the ground using a TBM (tunnel boring machine). Remember the station is planned to be below ground and using cut and cover just isn't going to allow that.

 

[Sean Emmett]

FWIW the Windsor Link website is here:
http://windsorlink.co.uk/

Alignment Options attached and link here
http://windsorlink.co.uk/alignment-options/

Train Services
http://windsorlink.co.uk/schematic/

A good site with local discussion is Windsor Link Railway Proposals & Comments in Windsor Now Forum:
http://theroyalwindsorforum.yuku.com/topic/1181/Windsor-Link-Railway-Proposals-amp-Comments?page=27

This is a highly political (and unrealistic?) proposal with its promise of no cost to the taxpayer, hence the fawning comments from local Conservative MPs on the Windsor Link website.

Personally I think the idea itself has merit, as the Southern and Great Western lines at Windsor should have been linked years ago. Extend the existing Waterloo - Windsor 2 tph to Slough with an extra 2 tph from Staines connecting with Reading services if no capacity from/to Waterloo.

Better service for Windsor itself and lots of easier journeys from Slough and other Crossrail stations to Surrey without needing to go via London, Reading - or the congested M25.

Where the proposals fall down in underestimating cost and wholly unrealistic future service aspirations given lack of capacity on GWML (e.g. through services to Paddington, Aylesbury and High Wycombe via Bourne End!).

Better that the diagram showed services terminating at Slough with connections from there, current schematic map (see link above) makes the project too easy to deride.

Its a convuluted way of getting into Heathrow from the west and hardly a saving in time compared with changing at Hayes, let alone direct access from GWML as currently proposed.

Would be interested to see what Network Rail have done on this and likely demand, cost benefit analysis etc.

 

[edwin_m]

Compare and contrast the Heathrow Southern Railway proposal (heathrowrail.com) which builds the northern part of what was the Airtrack proposal from T5 towards Staines but continues it alongside the M25 to avoid the difficult level crossings that led to cancellation of Airtrack. This creates scope to run trains from the SWT network through Heathrow to Paddington by using what are now the Heathrow Express paths, creating links not only to Heathrow but also to Crossrail and HS2 at Old Oak.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here's a thread from a few years ago (2013) where they tried to pretend they had NR onside:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85721

Here's another (2015) where they fuel the flames with a bit more fantasy:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115325

But why not go over it all again, it'll shortly be 2017 after all...

 

[Sean Emmett]

The Network Rail report on southern access to Heathrow favoured option 1B which is re-instatement of the Staines west curve rather than the more challenging (i.e. costly) option of tunnelling under Egham and re-joining existing line between Egham and Virginia Water, or a route following M25 re-joining existing route betw Virginia Water and Chertsey.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The Network Rail report on southern access to Heathrow favoured option 1B which is re-instatement of the Staines west curve rather than the more challenging (i.e. costly) option of tunnelling under Egham and re-joining existing line between Egham and Virginia Water, or a route following M25 re-joining existing route betw Virginia Water and Chertsey.

There seem to be quite a few competing proposals. After the mention of the Heathrow Southern Railway on this thread, I googled, and discovered the proposal from Hounslow Borough Council - which is completely different again, involving a new line from Heathrow T5 to connect to the SWT line between Feltham and Ashford, with a new station at Bedfont. So nothing like what the identically named Heathrow Southern Railway website proposes! Confusing or what!

 

[Sean Emmett]

Confusing indeed.

As a kid I lived in Windsor then Ascot so I know the area well and remember the Railair coach link from Feltham.

Lack of a southern link to Heathrow is ridiculous given proximity of the Windsor line to Heathrow.

An extension or branch of the Picadilly line to Feltham would be preferable to nothing.

Also I'm not sure why the proposed links to Heathrow can't be DC rather than AC? Appreciate dual voltage stock would be required for services from Surrey via Heathrow to PAD and Crossrail, but not for services from Waterloo.

Would be good if mods can tidy up these threads, maybe combine the Windsor link threads and have a separate Heathrow Southern Access thread?

 

[Brown]

Hello experts

Any further news or updates on WLR ? Based on the website, I assume there should be some news for this year.

B

 

[swt_passenger]

Hello experts

Any further news or updates on WLR ? Based on the website, I assume there should be some news for this year.

B

I wouldn't hold your breath. It's a fantasy project and extremely unlikely to ever happen.

 

[Brown]

I wouldn't hold your breath. It's a fantasy project and extremely unlikely to ever happen.

True... Based on the comments I slowly recognised its like a cooked story from JK Rowling's novel.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I assume there should be some news for this year

They bought themselves some more crayons and a new colouring in book.

Does that count?

 

[quantinghome]

From New Civil Engineer:
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la....article?blocktitle=News-Feed&contentID=13612

The proposed Windsor Link Railway (WLR) which would have provided southern access into Heathrow has been “rejected outright” by the government as part of its call for market led proposals (MLP).

Speaking exclusively to New Civil Engineer, WLR chief executive George Bathurst said it had received confirmation late on Wednesday night.

The Department for Transport (DfT) told Bathurst that it did not think that the scheme’s expected fare revenue matched the capital cost of building the line.

Although Bathurst added that the government had not entered into any discussions to query how Windsor Link Railway had generated the numbers.

“I’m really disappointed, it’s been eight years in the making,” he said. “I’m going to go back to the team and discuss what to do next.”

The proposal had been drawn up by Windsor Link Railway in partnership with consultant Arcadis and contractor Skanska.

The scheme was submitted as part of the government’s call for ideas on market led rail proposals to increase the amount of third party funding for rail projects.

The scheme was split into two phases. The first involved building a short section of new track and tunnel in central Windsor to connect Slough and Windsor to London Waterloo by linking up to the existing rail network.

Phase 2 would then have seen a longer link providing southern access to Heathrow joining the existing rail lines providing services to the West.

Both phases have been rejected as well as a whole suite of other measures also submitted as part of the MLP process, including an ambitious plan to purchase the proposed southern rail line from Network Rail to incorporate pods and autonomous vehicles on it.

The second phase of the link was in direct competition with the £1.2bn Aecom-backed Heathrow Southern Rail bid. A decision on which southern access scheme to take forward has not yet been announced, despite the DfT it saying it would announce in the autumn.

While I feel for people who have worked for eight years on something only to see it fail, I can't say I'm surprised. There has always been the whiff of crayon around this proposal.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I am not surprised either. I was expecting a rejection. I just hope Heathrow Southern Railway gets the go-ahead

 

[camflyer]

A good decision. There didn't seem much point in building a "light rail" connection between LHR and just Windsor. The Heathrow Southern Railway while much more expensive makes far more sense. It's just crazy that there are so many part of SW London and Surrey without a direct rail connection to their nearest airport.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

A good decision. There didn't seem much point in building a "light rail" connection between LHR and just Windsor. The Heathrow Southern Railway while much more expensive makes far more sense. It's just crazy that there are so many part of SW London and Surrey without a direct rail connection to their nearest airport.

Agree with everything you said. HSR makes so much sense although its expensive. it avoids several issues that i though WLR couldn't solve such as the level crossing issue around Egham.

 

[swt_passenger]

A good decision. There didn't seem much point in building a "light rail" connection between LHR and just Windsor. The Heathrow Southern Railway while much more expensive makes far more sense. It's just crazy that there are so many part of SW London and Surrey without a direct rail connection to their nearest airport.

I don’t think this was ever a ‘light rail’ proposal, everything they’ve said previously involved extending franchised services. All a bit academic now that the only realistic decision has been made, IMHO.

 

[pdeaves]

I don’t think this was ever a ‘light rail’ proposal, everything they’ve said previously involved extending franchised services. All a bit academic now that the only realistic decision has been made, IMHO.

The light rail proposal was not the Windsor Link scheme but was one of the other options put forward by the various promoters.

 

[swt_passenger]

The light rail proposal was not the Windsor Link scheme but was one of the other options put forward by the various promoters.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

[camflyer]

Agree with everything you said. HSR makes so much sense although its expensive. it avoids several issues that i though WLR couldn't solve such as the level crossing issue around Egham.

Yes, get Southern rail and the Western Approach projects done and Heathrow will finally have decent rail connections to destinations other than central London. If the airport is to successfully expand there has to be a significant shift to getting more people to and from the airport by rail.

 

[PeterC]

From New Civil Engineer:
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la....article?blocktitle=News-Feed&contentID=13612



While I feel for people who have worked for eight years on something only to see it fail, I can't say I'm surprised. There has always been the whiff of crayon around this proposal.

More than a whiff in my view.

 

[Bald Rick]

There has always been the whiff of crayon around this proposal.

Whiff? It absolutely reeked of a mountain of mouldy crayons that hadn’t passed the first quality inspection, and had been left for collection next to an overflowing sewage works.

More than a whiff in my view.

Much more politely put.

 

[MarkyT]

The light rail proposal was not the Windsor Link scheme but was one of the other options put forward by the various promoters.

I believe it is a Heathrow connection solution promoted by the Borough of Spelthorne.