The Windsor Link Railway

[DerekC]

Unless of course Joanna Lumley somehow gets to associate herself with it, in which case...

Read before you rubbish - it includes Airtrack (a project which does need to be relaunched) and some other ideas which are at least interesting.

 

[hwl]

I don't want to be first to bring this up, but:

WTF????!!!!

There isn't any part of the proposal that's credible.

Cost, Schedule, financing, and most importantly, Why?

One of the proposers was told exactly that several years go on here by several people (including me)!
I'll try to find the posts.

My guess is they think they can help pay for it by selling off railway property which would of course be redundant when the lines are put into tunnels.

I want to know what they are smoking as they could make far more money by selling that instead.

 

[Bald Rick]

One of the proposers was told exactly that several years go on here by several people (including me)!
I'll try to find the posts.

My guess is they think they can help pay for it by selling off railway property which would of course be redundant when the lines are put into tunnels.

I want to know what they are smoking as they could make far more money by selling that instead.

It does indeed look like a property scheme. But that rather relies on the estimate for the link being accurate. And I can tell them from personal experience that one does not get "300metres" of cut and cover tunnel beneath the water table, plus a new underground station, plus two tunnel portals and approach ramps, in the middle of a rather nice part of Berkshire, for anything remotely close to the cost or schedule they have suggested.

I would also be interested to see how this (and this alone) enables more trains to run to Waterloo, and 20 minutes quicker at that.

Flashy website though, I'll give them that.

 

[hwl]

1:23.5 gradient required - oh dear.

Cost < £150m "excluding property returns" definite property play.

 

[swt_passenger]

Will we get this AND western access to Heathrow?

Do we need them both?

Network Rail approved plans for the scheme in 2013.

As discussed in the previous thread, do NR actually support this, or are they just being polite, because it isn't their role to come out with damning criticism?

 

[JamesRowden]

I would also be interested to see how this (and this alone) enables more trains to run to Waterloo, and 20 minutes quicker at that.

It doesn't, the Wessex Route study showed that an additional 4tph of semi-fast paths would be available between Staines and Waterloo via Hounslow at the end of CP5 (and I recall past RUSs proposing the additional paths). The `Link Railway' would only be extending 2tph from Windsor to Slough, 2tph from Windsor to Heathrow, and using spare capacity west of Staines for new services to Heathrow. The Reading paths presumably taking the place of 2tph of the proposed 4tph Reading-Waterloo service and the Basingstoke paths presumably taking the place of the proposed 2tph Aldershot-Ascot-Waterloo service. This would reduce the number of trains between Staines and Waterloo by 4tph compared to that proposed in the Wessex Route study, which will perhaps allow faster paths between Windsor and Waterloo. Perhaps the `20 minutes quicker' to Waterloo comes from reducing the maximum waiting time for train from 30 to 15 minutes, and 5 minutes from not having so many intermediate stops. If so, 15 minutes of those 20 minutes can be saved without the link being built.

 

[trivran]

Revealed again, as in? Still, their website is a lot nicer since last I saw it.

 

[rob.rjt]

This definitely seems to be a property scheme involving building on lots of car parking land (both at Riverside station car park and adjacent to Central station). As a local, the main advantage I could see would possibly be an interavailable ticket to Waterloo or Paddington rather than the current rather silly arrangement.

 

[LexyBoy]

From what I can see the most convincing "why" is improvements in local connections - cars off the road and that. Whilst that would be good of course I can't see it getting funding, and no way would it pay for itself in property.

This definitely seems to be a property scheme involving building on lots of cat parking land (both at Riverside station cat park and adjacent to Central station). As a local, the main advantage I could see would possibly be an interavailable ticket to Waterloo or Paddington rather than the current rather silly arrangement.

Surely any replacement station would need at least as much car parking? If the land were that valuable surely the existing car parks would be put underground or multistoried and the land freed up already.

Interavailability should be available now, and there's no reason that it would appear if there were only a single station anyway.

 

[Bald Rick]

Joining the 2 through Windsor would have precisely zero effect on local traffic. No new destinations, no improved frequencies, so why would any current car users in Windsor switch to the railway just because part of it is underground?

Indeed, with all the new properties to be built, local traffic would increase! Not to mention all the lorries that would be needed to get muck out and concrete in to build the thing (for at least 2 years).

 

[LexyBoy]

I was thinking of journeys through, rather than from, Windsor. No idea of numbers though - but as I said I don't think it would come anywhere near being viable.

 

[zn1]

this work would effective close riverside and central stations...both beautiful pieces of working architecture...its a hell of alot of civils work, High costs, alot of disruption to an already busy town at the best of times that operates 7 days a week 365 days a year.... , knowing the area very well, i personally cant see any cost benefits..both lines make plenty of money and are cost effective as they are...if it aint broke why fix it.

if it had been a worthwhile project GWR and Southern would have committed to the task and constructed the link.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was thinking of journeys through, rather than from, Windsor. No idea of numbers though - but as I said I don't think it would come anywhere near being viable.

Take a quick look at the map of the area. Assess how many people that drive from Slough to any location served by the Riverside branch service (or vice versa) would normally drive via central Windsor, or even use the Windsor bypass. If you get into double figures, try again.

 

[TheKnightWho]

[can't quote the post from LexyBoy due to the forum playing up]

Take a quick look at the map of the area. Assess how many people that drive from Slough to any location served by the Riverside branch service (or vice versa) would normally drive via central Windsor, or even use the Windsor bypass. If you get into double figures, try again.

If you drive anywhere, do you try to follow the railway line as much as possible? I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Monty]

I cannot believe that this truly ridiculous schemes has not been killed off yet. What I fail to understand is how is this whole thing being funded? It seems to me they have a genuine belief that if they can get the line built Network Rail will basically hand over the deeds to the old stations and surrounding land for them to redevelop as they see fit. None of the directors involved (I notice they are two short now as there used to be four initially) have any railway or civil engineering backgrounds nor do they have a proven track record of delivering projects of this size. This is before we even discuss things such as their proposed 1 in 25 gradient or cut and cover methods of tunnelling. What is this the 1800s?

Utterly bonkers.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Is 1 in 25 a real problem these days?

 

[Monty]

Is 1 in 25 a real problem these days?

Depending on what trains you wanted to use I would say it's still a significant factor to consider.

 

[Bald Rick]

The point I was trying to make is that if you live in Staines, Wraysbury, Sunnymeads, Datchet, Feltham, Ashord (Surrey), Twickenham, Hounslow etc, and need to get to Slough (or vice versa), and you normally drive, you wouldn't go via Windsor. So linking the two lines in Windsor to enable through services between Slough and all these other places would not reduce traffic in Windsor. Which is claimed to be a benefit of the project.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It seems to me that this scheme is as much about reducing road congestion with wishful thinking that better public transport will mean getting through traffic off of the roads so that its proponents can carry on unhindered in their 4x4, BMW, Audis etc. One principal area of local road congestion relates to getting between M4 J6 and the south west of Windsor (A332, B3022, Legoland). This scheme will do absolutely nothing to alleviate that.

 

[rob.rjt]

It seems to me that this scheme is as much about reducing road congestion with wishful thinking that better public transport will mean getting through traffic off of the roads so that its proponents can carry on unhindered in their 4x4, BMW, Audis etc. One principal area of local road congestion relates to getting between M4 J6 and the south west of Windsor (A332, B3022, Legoland). This scheme will do absolutely nothing to alleviate that.

Without comment about the proponents having the roads freed up for them, I would agree this is wishful thinking, M4 J6 to Windsor seems to be mainly used for accessing the town centre or West Windsor rather than the Datchet side.

It has just occurred to me that without the associated civils work at Slough and/or Staines, the scheme will result in Windsor having a worse service than currently.

Trains from Central to Slough during the day are every 20 minutes whilst Riverside to Waterloo every 30 minutes. This scheme won't speed up the Riverside route while possibly causing longer journeys via Slough.

Whilst the timetable would need a recast, there is also a reduction in recovery time at the station as the current Riverside service (which it seems would now continue to Slough) sits at Riverside for about 30 minutes before returning. This may be enough time to get to Slough and return, but only just.

 

[nlogax]

I don't see the point of this scheme. It's technically feasible but the benefits don't really seem obvious even after a thorough dig through the project website. Slightly reminded of Jurassic Park.. "..but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."

 

[infobleep]

I cannot believe that this truly ridiculous schemes has not been killed off yet. What I fail to understand is how is this whole thing being funded? It seems to me they have a genuine belief that if they can get the line built Network Rail will basically hand over the deeds to the old stations and surrounding land for them to redevelop as they see fit. None of the directors involved (I notice they are two short now as there used to be four initially) have any railway or civil engineering backgrounds nor do they have a proven track record of delivering projects of this size. This is before we even discuss things such as their proposed 1 in 25 gradient or cut and cover methods of tunnelling. What is this the 1800s?

Utterly bonkers.

If it were the 1800s it might actually get built and then if not popular or the company went bust, load on or closed.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This definitely seems to be a property scheme involving building on lots of car parking land (both at Riverside station car park and adjacent to Central station). As a local, the main advantage I could see would possibly be an interavailable ticket to Waterloo or Paddington rather than the current rather silly arrangement.

If it meant the removal of the current silly ticketing arrangements, that surely would be enough for it not to happen. After all silly ticketing arrangements are preferable to sensible ones :joke:

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[rebmcr]

Is there really no "Windsor Stations to London Terminals" ticket? That seems very silly.

 

[Bald Rick]

It would seem the website has recently changed its statement about obtaining 'approval' from Network Rail, to a more anodyne 'has been positively received by Network Rail'.

Replace the word 'positively' with 'definitely' and I suspect that is nearer the truth. They must have sent it by recorded delivery.

 

[swt_passenger]

It would seem the website has recently changed its statement about obtaining 'approval' from Network Rail, to a more anodyne 'has been positively received by Network Rail'.

Replace the word 'positively' with 'definitely' and I suspect that is nearer the truth. They must have sent it by recorded delivery.

They might as well have sent it by Red Star for all the good it would do...

 

[DerekC]

. If it had been a worthwhile project GWR and Southern would have committed to the task and constructed the link.

Can't let that one pass by - GWR and Southern were not exactly known for co-operation. Is there an Airtrack thread anywhere? Reviving that seems to be the one sensible part of this proposal.

 

[387star]

I heard from an acquaintance who lives in Windsor that there are plans to build a connection between the two Windsor stations? This is the first I have heard of these proposals

Currently one has to walk between the two. Of course Windsor Central is unwired at present. I believe it is still planned to wire the short branch to Slough with a long term goal of direct trains to Paddington.

Incidentally Windsor and Eton Riverside has seen a great variety of traction over the years ! I have arrived at the terminus on 455s during the 1990s then 450s during the noughties ... now it seems 455s are used on the line at weekends and 458s during the week

Those 458s will revert to the Reading line soon with the arrival of 707s...

Of course the Central line has only seen turbos for the past twenty years or so

Both stations are very attractive termini in their own ways but a link would be welcomed

 

[Bertie the bus]

I assume you mean this: www.windsorlink.co.uk.

That isn't a plan; it is a fantasy. Though that won't prevent this thread stretching to about 20 pages.

 

[PR1Berske]

I agree with Bertie. What you see I crayon smudges on an old map.

 

[HowardGWR]

I heard from an acquaintance who lives in Windsor that there are plans to build a connection between the two Windsor stations? This is the first I have heard of these proposals

Currently one has to walk between the two. Of course Windsor Central is unwired at present. I believe it is still planned to wire the short branch to Slough with a long term goal of direct trains to Paddington.

Incidentally Windsor and Eton Riverside has seen a great variety of traction over the years ! I have arrived at the terminus on 455s during the 1990s then 450s during the noughties ... now it seems 455s are used on the line at weekends and 458s during the week

Those 458s will revert to the Reading line soon with the arrival of 707s...

Of course the Central line has only seen turbos for the past twenty years or so

Both stations are very attractive termini in their own ways but a link would be welcomed

I am trying to work out how someone, who joined this site in 2009, who knows all about 455s, 458s, etc, could have not heard of this proposal. You 'walk between the two', so are presumably local. Mystifying.