IEP criticism by Roger Ford

[Mikey C]

I Have a Dream that it'll turn out to be a Super Trouper.

I suspect that the choice of seats comes down to money, money, money...

 

[najaB]

I suspect that the choice of seats comes down to money, money, money...

When All is Said and Done, we're back where we started. Time to say So Long and not go On and On and On.

 

[All Line Rover]

There are too many bays of four in first class. I prefer consecutive rows of two airline style seats, as they avoid the need to fight for legroom with a person sat opposite and feel more secluded, and reduce the tendency for one person to occupy a bay of four seats.

 

[yorksrob]

]

When All is Said and Done, we're back where we started. Time to say So Long and not go On and On and On.

I still think that someone should have asked the DfT 'what's the name of the game', when they specified those hard seats.

 

[Mordac]

If I could meet the said Oxford rower sitting opposite, it might make the journey in a hard seat more bearable

So you're saying the seat wouldn't be the only hard thing on the train?

 

[yorksrob]

So you're saying the seat wouldn't be the only hard thing on the train?

You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment

 

[Firesprite]

]

I still think that someone should have asked the DfT 'what's the name of the game', when they specified those hard seats.

'Endurance' after the DfT team watched repeats of the Japanese game show of that name for ideas.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I see people choosing to stand over being crammed in, on probably every busy train I get!

Even on journeys like Peterborough to London. On shorter journeys, such as short hops on metro systems, it's absolutely the norm.

I can't believe you've never seen this.

On my commute into Waterloo every seat is taken so far as I can see so no I've "never seen this". Hence the regular the complaint of "I can't get a seat".

If someone is prepared to stand all the way between Peterborough and London when there are seats available they've got a screw loose.

 

[Starmill]

Really? What if there are only 2 seats in the whole carriage? People's limbs, bags, food or other belongings are spilling out into those seats? The trains are not well furnished with luggage space, so are you going to go over and have a debate with them about where they are going to move their luggage and coffee cup, and then ask them to sit up straight in their seat so there is room for you to sit down? I suppose some people might insist on that, but a lot would prefer to stand - especially if you have a whole vestibule to yourself as a result rather than touching flesh with a stranger who you might have risked conflict with asking them to mover their stuff...

 

[RichmondCommu]

Really? What if there are only 2 seats in the whole carriage? People's limbs, bags, food or other belongings are spilling out into those seats? The trains are not well furnished with luggage space, so are you going to go over and have a debate with them about where they are going to move their luggage and coffee cup, and then ask them to sit up straight in their seat so there is room for you to sit down?

Yes "really". Believe me there is no "debate". I ask my fellow commuter if the seat is taken, they shake their head and I sit myself down. We then go on our merry way whilst I check my emails etc. Having forked out for my annual ST if there is a seat available then I will carefully place my buttocks on it.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I suppose some people might insist on that, but a lot would prefer to stand - especially if you have a whole vestibule to yourself as a result rather than touching flesh with a stranger who you might have risked conflict with asking them to mover their stuff...

What when the entire train is rammed? There is no conflict at all, I ask them if the seat is free and they move their belongings.

As for touching flesh with a stranger, how on earth would you react if the girl / boy of your dreams tried to give you a snog?

 

[yorkie]

I am glad that 2+3 seating is being abolished. Clearly most people are against it. There will always be some who like it; I will agree to disagree with that minority, and they have to accept that times have changed in favour of what the majority want.

Not only that but what also results in an increase in overall capacity (ie, allowing standees down the aisles).

 

[Starmill]

What when the entire train is rammed? There is no conflict at all, I ask them if the seat is free and they move their belongings.

And if they say "no?" or "not really?" or "there is nowhere else to put this"? Are you going to pick up their belongings and move them around? And then sit next to them for the remainder of the journey?

Most people will try to avoid public conflict - or even the possibility of conflict. Especially because there are lots of trains on which you would have more space to yourself if you stood than if you tried to sit. Even for a 30-40 minute journey there are clearly people who would prefer more elbow room than being able to park their backside.

 

[urpert]

Yes "really". Believe me there is no "debate". I ask my fellow commuter if the seat is taken, they shake their head and I sit myself down. We then go on our merry way whilst I check my emails etc. Having forked out for my annual ST if there is a seat available then I will carefully place my buttocks on it.

I agree. The one thing you quickly develop as a commuter is a thick skin when asking people to move bags etc or let you past to get into an empty seat.

 

[D365]

I am glad that 2+3 seating is being abolished. Clearly most people are against it. There will always be some who like it; I will agree to disagree with that minority, and they have to accept that times have changed in favour of what the majority want.

Try saying that on the Great Northern

 

[AnonymousUser1]

its clear we need a department within the DfT or a passenger group whose role is to rule and judge over passenger comfort... no doubt regulations and cost are being prioritised above comfort. You cant do much about regs but you can surely improve comfort. These seats are usable for 20 plus years... money shouldnt be an object, they repay themselves in good time.......

except of course most of the 'criticism' is based on images and supposition ...

also seat 'comfort' is subjective and unless you are going to make train seats as adjustable as the front seats in a car or a long haul premium economy aircraft seat...

 

[cactustwirly]

Try saying that on the Great Northern

Or the GWML, the middle seat does get used a lot.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[D365]

Or the GWML, the middle seat does get used a lot.

Good luck to you then, when the Class 387s are fully introduced.

 

[cactustwirly]

Good luck to you then, when the Class 387s are fully introduced.

Crossrail will sort that problem out, It's mainly the west London stations that require the 3rd seat

 

[physics34]

except of course most of the 'criticism' is based on images and supposition ...

also seat 'comfort' is subjective and unless you are going to make train seats as adjustable as the front seats in a car or a long haul premium economy aircraft seat...

Apart from pitch and height of seat i cant see how a more cushioned or sprung seat would be disliked. Most complaints about bad seats are concerning hardness (377/6s, 700s IEPs), legroom, bad pitch and being too low (such as 319 seats).

Unless the seat is as soft as a pillow or a beanbag i dont see why a more cushioned seat for long distance service would be a problem.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Apart from pitch and height of seat i cant see how a more cushioned or sprung seat would be disliked. Most complaints about bad seats are concerning hardness (377/6s, 700s IEPs), legroom, bad pitch and being too low (such as 319 seats).

Unless the seat is as soft as a pillow or a beanbag i dont see why a more cushioned seat for long distance service would be a problem.

given your username , you lack of understanding of materials science is interesting ...

 

[route:oxford]

Unless the seat is as soft as a pillow or a beanbag i dont see why a more cushioned seat for long distance service would be a problem.

The greater the cushioning, the greater the absorbency when individuals either by choice, consequentially of inebriation or through distressing no-fault loss of control void their bladders or bowels on seats.

 

[route:oxford]

And if they say "no?" or "not really?" or "there is nowhere else to put this"? Are you going to pick up their belongings and move them around? And then sit next to them for the remainder of the journey?

Absolutely. They can stand instead if they don't like it.

 

[43096]

Absolutely. They can stand instead if they don't like it.

Most people know the "rules" and don't put stuff on seats anyway, as they know there will be none free. Those who don't know the rules are soon educated!

 

[yorksrob]

given your username , you lack of understanding of materials science is interesting ...

I think the subjectiveness of seat comfort is overstated somewhat. If the amount of cushioning for long periods sat down was all that subjective, how come the vast majority of people have padded settees in their living rooms, rather than thinly cushioned hard back seats.

 

[Starmill]

Absolutely. They can stand instead if they don't like it.

They key point was that this kind of attitude is possessed by very few people.

You can say this a million times online, but actually doing it is something else.

Fights on trains are rare. Standing is not - even when there are seats. And that's the end of it.

 

[RichmondCommu]

And if they say "no?" or "not really?" or "there is nowhere else to put this"? Are you going to pick up their belongings and move them around? And then sit next to them for the remainder of the journey?

Most people will try to avoid public conflict - or even the possibility of conflict. Especially because there are lots of trains on which you would have more space to yourself if you stood than if you tried to sit. Even for a 30-40 minute journey there are clearly people who would prefer more elbow room than being able to park their backside.

Having been commuting into London for over 25 years I cannot recall a single instance where a fellow commuter has not removed their collection of belongings when asked. Items are either moved on to their lap or held in their hot little hand and we head off into town. There is no fuss and no arguments although one or two do give me the odd scowl. Oh well it makes me smile as I walk to work.

However if someone did refuse to move their belongings then I would pick up the items, sit down and then place them on my lap. However I have three years left of commuting and I honestly don't think that I will ever have to resort to anything as extreme as that.

Merry Christmas Starmill

 

[yorksrob]

It has to be borne in mind that not everyone who travels on the train is a seasoned commuter.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It has to be borne in mind that not everyone who travels on the train is a seasoned commuter.

That's very true but I've never known a single rail traveler who would rather stand than sit down. If there is not a seat to be had then that's fair enough but it's a completely different matter when someone is being selfish.

 

[yorksrob]

That's very true but I've never known a single rail traveler who would rather stand than sit down. If there is not a seat to be had then that's fair enough but it's a completely different matter when someone is being selfish.

On the Mk 4's you generally get people perching in the vestibule. Some of them have prams and whatnot whilt others might be going a shorter distance. Since there's plenty of room it's not really an inconvenience.