Lorry ploughs into German market in Berlin

[ld0595]

Lorry kills nine at Berlin Christmas market

A lorry has ploughed into a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing nine people and injuring many more, police say.

Police now say they suspect it was a deliberate attack. Video footage from the scene shows stalls knocked over and people lying injured on the ground.
The driver is believed to be under arrest while the co-driver died.

The market is at Breitscheidplatz, close to the Kurfuerstendamm, the main shopping street in the city's west.

It is situated at the foot of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church, which was kept as a bombed-out ruin after World War Two.

As emergency vehicles filled the area, Berlin police appealed to the public to avoid the area and stay at home.

Facebook has set up a "Safety Check" page for people affected to let their loved ones know they are safe.

A British eyewitness, Mike Fox, told The Associated Press at the scene that the large lorry had missed him by only about 3m as it drove into the market, tearing through tables and wooden stands.

"It was definitely deliberate," said the tourist, visiting from Birmingham.
He said he had helped people who appeared to have broken limbs, and that others were trapped under Christmas stands.

Jan Hollitzer, deputy editor in chief of Berliner Morgenpost, told CNN: "I heard a big noise and then I moved on the Christmas market and saw much chaos... many injured people. It was really traumatic."

The Berliner Zeitung reports that police have set up a meeting point for relatives at the scene.

A photographer for the DPA news agency said that armed police were at an entrance to the nearby zoo.

The incident evoked memories of the lorry attack on Bastille Day crowds in the French city of Nice on 14 July, when 86 people were killed. That attack was claimed by so-called Islamic State.

 

[Johnuk123]

This sort of thing has been heavily forecast for some time after the Bastille day truck attack in Nice which explains the heavy concrete blocks guarding the Birmingham Xmas market.

 

[Kite159]

Tragic

 

[AlterEgo]

The good news is the driver is in custody.

 

[Bletchleyite]

2016 just keeps giving, doesn't it?

 

[RichmondCommu]

This sort of thing has been heavily forecast for some time after the Bastille day truck attack in Nice which explains the heavy concrete blocks guarding the Birmingham Xmas market.

Sadly the Germans have not taken steps to protect their own Christmas markets with concrete blocks.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Another horrific incident and thoughts are with all concerned.

It is telling that as ISIS in the Middle East have been attacked and lost a lot of ground and sources of funding, the attacks in Europe have become simpler, but unfortunately no less devastating.

Early attacks were carried out by people who had travelled to camps, learnt how to use weapons and been supplied with arms and ammunition. They had the potential to cause untold casualties, but were in many cases, stopped before they could be carried out - plots were detected and people stopped.

These new waves of attacks are being carried out by people who are essentially 'enthusiasts' of ISIS. They are radicalised online or just by themselves, no funding or support is sent and since they act alone, there is no real way to detect or stop them.

This is the problem with the "war on ISIS" - even if they are wiped out in the Middle East, there are still people who believe their twisted version of religion and will encourage others to follow it. They don't need central leadership or funds, just a dedicated cadre online who can elicit support and convince people to carry out these sort of attacks.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Germany has given refuge to a great many of those who, in the most recent ethnic cleansing/outright fear of IS, sought refuge in Europe.

Perhaps, if IS are using sponsored home-grown terrorists again as in the case of the lorry driver in Nice, this could be seen as a form of their 7th century based warped mentality retribution.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Germany has given refuge to a great many of those who, in the most recent ethnic cleansing/outright fear of IS, sought refuge in Europe.

Perhaps, if IS are using sponsored home-grown terrorists again as in the case of the lorry driver in Nice, this could be seen as a form of their 7th century based warped mentality retribution.

This is sickening. Disclaimer here as my next point is pure speculation based on what's been said on the BBC News Channel- it's possible that this truck was hijacked, as it is Polish registered and the man found dead in the cab was Polish so is presumably the unfortunate original driver.

To make matters even worse, it has just been reported that there's been a shooting at a mosque in Zurich- hopefully not a misguided revenge attack.

 

[Qwerty133]

This is sickening. Disclaimer here as my next point is pure speculation based on what's been said on the BBC News Channel- it's possible that this truck was hijacked, as it is Polish registered and the man found dead in the cab was Polish so is presumably the unfortunate original driver.

To make matters even worse, it has just been reported that there's been a shooting at a mosque in Zurich- hopefully not a misguided revenge attack.

It seems as though the incident in Zurich occurred before the attacks in Berlin (of course as a smaller incident it takes longer to feed through to the mianstream media, especially as the BBC for example are already operating on reduced resources for christmas and the larger stories in Turkey and Berlin), and muslim on muslim violence is also beginning to become a severe threat in the west.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It seems as though the incident in Zurich occurred before the attacks in Berlin (of course as a smaller incident it takes longer to feed through to the mianstream media, especially as the BBC for example are already operating on reduced resources for christmas and the larger stories in Turkey and Berlin), and muslim on muslim violence is also beginning to become a severe threat in the west.

Quite right, my mistake. Nevertheless my worry now is that this horrible event will embolden the far right in Europe, with elections coming in both France and Germany in 2017...

 

[Senex]

Perhaps, if IS are using sponsored home-grown terrorists again as in the case of the lorry driver in Nice, this could be seen as a form of their 7th century based warped mentality retribution.

Reports at the moment are talking about an Afghan or Pakistani asylum-seeker rather than someone from the Middle East.

I wonder how far the German electorate may now punish their government through the ballot-box for its immigration policies.

As for the 7th-century mentality, I think you might be being a little unfair. Islam in the early Middle Ages provided the scholarship that helped to transmit much of Greek learning to us, that brought about great advances in science and medicine, produced fine architecture (witness Moorish Spain, for example), and much else -- in many ways rather on advance of northern and western Europe. The trouble is that all that seemed to come to an end to leave the Wahhabi/Salafist/Deobandi religion of today that does seem to want to go back not to Islam's enlightened Middle Ages but to the Dark Ages in the desert.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As for the 7th-century mentality, I think you might be being a little unfair. Islam in the early Middle Ages provided the scholarship that helped to transmit much of Greek learning to us, that brought about great advances in science and medicine, produced fine architecture (witness Moorish Spain, for example), and much else -- in many ways rather on advance of northern and western Europe. The trouble is that all that seemed to come to an end to leave the Wahhabi/Salafist/Deobandi religion of today that does seem to want to go back not to Islam's enlightened Middle Ages but to the Dark Ages in the desert.

You will note that I specifically mentioned the 7th century mentality that then prevailed when Islam was moving forward on expansion on all fronts and NOT centuries after this when what you say was the norm.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for the 7th-century mentality, I think you might be being a little unfair. Islam in the early Middle Ages provided the scholarship that helped to transmit much of Greek learning to us, that brought about great advances in science and medicine, produced fine architecture (witness Moorish Spain, for example), and much else -- in many ways rather on advance of northern and western Europe. The trouble is that all that seemed to come to an end to leave the Wahhabi/Salafist/Deobandi religion of today that does seem to want to go back not to Islam's enlightened Middle Ages but to the Dark Ages in the desert.

Perhaps it would actually help if the media outlets would be more specific and refer to Wahhabist terrorism etc (as appropriate)?

To some extent, calling the existing issues "Islamic terrorism" is in some ways more than slightly similar to the idea of referring to the IRA as "Christian terrorism", which I can't imagine anyone would see as anything other than a bit silly.

 

[Phil.]

Only a little time ago people who criticised Merkel's "come one come all" open door policy as an invitation to terrorists bringing their own twisted ideas of religious purity to Europe as mad loon eyed racists. She was told and warned by many that it would come back and bite the country that housed them. Too late she realised and tried to close the doors.
The best thing that she could do now is apologise and resign.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps it would actually help if the media outlets would be more specific and refer to Wahhabist terrorism etc (as appropriate)?

Well that won't happen, because that involves criticising Saudi Arabia, and we can't possibly do that now, can we?

Wahhabism is toxic, we all know it is, but it keeps the House of Saud in power. And as we're seeing in Yemen, that's all that really matters

Adam Curtis' recent films Hypernormalisation and Bitter Lake explain this better than I ever could.

These new waves of attacks are being carried out by people who are essentially 'enthusiasts' of ISIS. They are radicalised online or just by themselves, no funding or support is sent and since they act alone, there is no real way to detect or stop them.

There are ways of detecting them and stopping them, but that involves building bridges between communities. People have worries and concerns about people they see in class, or at the Mosque, but if they don't trust the authorities then they don't report their worries. And if their whole community is labelled as "filthy Islamists who should be sent home" then they definitely don't report their worries.

Most of these terrorists- both Islamist and far-right- are known troublemakers and know causes for concern. On the right, Breivik and Thomas Mair had been known about for years, but they weren't taken seriously. On the Islamist side, the terror cell in Brussels has been known about for ages too, but again they weren't taken seriously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well that won't happen, because that involves criticising Saudi Arabia, and we can't possibly do that now, can we?

And why might that be an issue...let me guess...could it be oil?

That's why I want more nuclear, more renewables, and the whole public transport network running on electricity (and electric cars). If we stop burning the "black gold", and also work on alternatives for manufacturing like plant-based polymers (and, for when the internal combustion or gas turbine engine is the only sensible option, biofuels), we can stop depending on an unstable part of the world, and then can if we wish break off ties from it unless it bucks its ideas up substantially.

 

[AlterEgo]

And why might that be an issue...let me guess...could it be oil?

That's why I want more nuclear, more renewables, and the whole public transport network running on electricity (and electric cars). If we stop burning the "black gold", and also work on alternatives for manufacturing like plant-based polymers (and, for when the internal combustion or gas turbine engine is the only sensible option, biofuels), we can stop depending on an unstable part of the world, and then can if we wish break off ties from it unless it bucks its ideas up substantially.

^^

Sums up my point of view on the whole thing entirely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If we stop burning the "black gold", and also work on alternatives for manufacturing like plant-based polymers (and, for when the internal combustion or gas turbine engine is the only sensible option, biofuels)

It's been proven repeatedly that diesel cars can run on used chip fat. But where's the tax revenue in that?

 

[zuriblue]

German Media now reporting that the police reckon they have the wrong man.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been proven repeatedly that diesel cars can run on used chip fat. But where's the tax revenue in that?

TBH that is one big reason in favour of road pricing. It'll come, it has to with electric vehicles - even if we moved to fully nuclear and renewable generation there'd still be horrendous traffic congestion if it became really cheap to drive around all the time.

 

[backontrack]

And why might that be an issue...let me guess...could it be oil?

That's why I want more nuclear, more renewables, and the whole public transport network running on electricity (and electric cars). If we stop burning the "black gold", and also work on alternatives for manufacturing like plant-based polymers (and, for when the internal combustion or gas turbine engine is the only sensible option, biofuels), we can stop depending on an unstable part of the world, and then can if we wish break off ties from it unless it bucks its ideas up substantially.

Very good post, hear hear.

 

[Groningen]

The widower of Jo Cox became embroiled in a war of words with Nigel Farage after criticising the Ukip politician for saying the Berlin Christmas market attack would reflect Angela Merkel’s “legacy”. Farage accused Cox of supporting extremism by backing Hope Not Hate, a charity that campaigns to counter militant or bigoted political activity, especially from rightwing groups. Hope Not Hate responded by calling Farage’s comments “a political smear” and warning that he faced legal action if he did not apologise and retract his comments.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-cox-of-supporting-extremism?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Bletchleyite]

Farage really is a fool, isn't he? Even those in favour of Brexit must surely recognise that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Funny how Farage (and his equivalents such as Wilders, Golden Dawn and Marine Le Pen, and indeed President-Elect Trump) are so quick to point the finger at those they cast as "appeasers" whilst simultaneously exploiting tragedy by indulging in dog-whistle politics... :roll::roll::roll:

 

[AlterEgo]

Funny how Farage (and his equivalents such as Wilders, Golden Dawn and Marine Le Pen, and indeed President-Elect Trump) are so quick to point the finger at those they cast as "appeasers" whilst simultaneously exploiting tragedy by indulging in dog-whistle politics... :roll::roll::roll:

None of the four others named there engage in dog whistling. They are pretty open about what they'd like to achieve, do you not think?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

None of the four others named there engage in dog whistling. They are pretty open about what they'd like to achieve, do you not think?

Trump's entire campaign was based on dog-whistling, and I've seen translations of Golden Dawn pamphlets that refer to spurious claims that German women had been ordered to cover their faces by Syrian immigrants. The latter was borrowed from the German anti-immigration party that has apparently gained popularity, whose name escapes me for the moment.

 

[Mag_seven]

German Media now reporting that the police reckon they have the wrong man.

If they have got the wrong man then that goes to show that its a good thing that we have due investigative process rather than lynch mob rule.

 

[AlterEgo]

If they have got the wrong man then that goes to show that its a good thing that we have due investigative process rather than lynch mob rule.

The suspect has been released with German police seemingly admitting they got the wrong man.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The suspect has been released with German police seemingly admitting they got the wrong man.

That being the case, the initial arresting officers must have shown commendable restraint in making a relatively peaceful arrest- especially given that AIUI most German police officers are armed.