Why are trainspotters being treated like terriorists?

[LilLoaf]

There http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvPuYcNU64

Lots of spotters taking photo's with the flash on the cam, did it crash ? No, did it blind the driver ? No, Did it blind anyone else ? no - simple.

Suppose the drunk lasses at you station all went home blind that night did they ?

Anyways this is about the police state (partly anyway) its the BTP that wine on about taking photos of trains, and if the flash is on, its hard to get rid of them, even with my argueing.



I would probably say its more of a problem than the stop and search issue, i'm not going through more and more examples of people using flash photograghy at stations. All i will say is when i was talking to some drivers about it in America they just laughed about it thought it was the funniest stupid thing they heard in a while.

End of discussion of flash photograghy. Back to what the thread about.


I can see a day when you have to be searched before entering a station like in an airport. Personelly i don't think its a bad idea as long as they don't start taking camera's, alcohol, and other things of passengers. Only dangerous things like, knives, guns, stuff like that.

 

[class 313]

In that very video there's an announcement not to flash approaching trains.

3:53

 

[GB]

There http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvPuYcNU64

Lots of spotters taking photo's with the flash on the cam, did it crash ? No, did it blind the driver ? No, Did it blind anyone else ? no - simple.

Suppose the drunk lasses at you station all went home blind that night did they ?

Anyways this is about the police state (partly anyway) its the BTP that wine on about taking photos of trains, and if the flash is on, its hard to get rid of them, even with my argueing.



I would probably say its more of a problem than the stop and search issue, i'm not going through more and more examples of people using flash photograghy at stations. All i will say is when i was talking to some drivers about it in America they just laughed about it thought it was the funniest stupid thing they heard in a while.

End of discussion of flash photograghy. Back to what the thread about.


I can see a day when you have to be searched before entering a station like in an airport. Personelly i don't think its a bad idea as long as they don't start taking camera's, alcohol, and other things of passengers. Only dangerous things like, knives, guns, stuff like that.

omg:roll: I give up, I really do. Its people like you that give other enthusiasts a bad name.

 

[richa2002]

In that very video there's an announcement not to flash approaching trains.

3:53

I don't think LilLoaf denies the existence of such announcements. The video was shown to show that in that case, the flash did not cause something unsafe to happen.
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omg:roll: I give up, I really do. Its people like you that give other enthusiasts a bad name.

Maybe because he's logically arguing his argument instead of just accepting things how they are. I've yet to decide whether I agree or not so don't put me into the 'agree' camp but he is using sound logic... I personally think the brightness of new-style lights on trains at night are blinding in themselves. Just as much as a flash!

 

[Phoenix]

Honestly it's all generally because over the years the railways have lost their heart and rather than embrasing their fans they would much rather shunn us into the dark and allow a little more space for the man with his suitcase cause he wont comnplain when they bump the fares up next year.

It's honestly sad the way it has to be sometimes and this terrorism scam is quite silly and I have only had the word used against me once and basically said that if I was harrased with that word again legal action would be taken (only due to the rude manner this was said to me in)

But there are some rays of sunlight on the railway network as there are various stations who break the mould and are only too happy to treat the rail fan with the respect we deserve and I commend those stations.

But there are some situations when us rail fans don't help ourselves what so ever and frankly some indivduals deserve a kick to the curb.
Like those stoats who fare dodge and slag railkway companies down to the ground even though they actually don't commute on the trains.
also those who feel they have to stand right next to the edge of the platform because they are to inept to take a photograph properly and the same goes to those who use flash at night as they actually need to read this sort of stuff up.

Anyway Hope this hasn't annoyed anyone and generally us rail fans are the good guys in this situation and hopefully we will win this one.

 

[class 313]

I don't think LilLoaf denies the existence of such announcements. The video was shown to show that in that case, the flash did not cause something unsafe to happen.
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Maybe because he's logically arguing his argument instead of just accepting things how they are. I've yet to decide whether I agree or not so don't put me into the 'agree' camp but he is using sound logic... I personally think the brightness of new-style lights on trains at night are blinding in themselves. Just as much as a flash!

There's no need to think about agreeing or not. The drivers hate it and leaves them blind, ever had those flashing dots after looking at a bright light? Exactly. Drivers are affected. If you think so or not does not matter and that goes to both Lil Loaf and Richard.

As I just explained to Richard, I have seen this first hand! The Lincoln Spoons last year, someone used the flash as the 47 pulled in. The driver popped his head out and started shouting at him with some, rather strong words. I'm sure if others were on the platform that night would back me up with that story.

So at the end of the day the drivers hate it even if you don't think so!

:roll:

 

[richa2002]

Was trying to offer some perspective to the situation but you've put me into the I disagree with the flash rule camp. I specifically said for you not to do that but you have. Ridiculous.

I said I would stop arguing but I have the right to defend myself.

 

[GB]

I don't think LilLoaf denies the existence of such announcements. The video was shown to show that in that case, the flash did not cause something unsafe to happen.
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Maybe because he's logically arguing his argument instead of just accepting things how they are. I've yet to decide whether I agree or not so don't put me into the 'agree' camp but he is using sound logic... I personally think the brightness of new-style lights on trains at night are blinding in themselves. Just as much as a flash!

You are right regarding new style train lights, which is why alot of drivers switch them off when passing other trains at night if they can.

Ive been in the front cab when inept morons have been using flash and it can and does have an negative effect which is why the rules mitigate against it.

 

[class 313]

Lol. Loader will make anything into a full-scale argument. Must be so bored.

No its truth! Like I said, it doesn't matter if you're thinking about agreeing or not. Because the simple fact is, drivers hate it. That's what matters.

:roll:

Regarding the bright lights, Its been known of drivers turning them down when passing other drivers...
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Ive been in the front cab when inept morons have been using flash and it can and does have an negative effect which is why the rules mitigate against it.

Exactly, why cant these people see that?
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Was trying to offer some perspective to the situation but you've put me into the I disagree with the flash rule camp. I specifically said for you not to do that but you have. Ridiculous.

I said I would stop arguing but I have the right to defend myself.

Not at all, all I said is that It doesn't even matter if you're thinking about it. There's nothing to think about.

 

[richa2002]

Okay, fair enough. But his argument is logical.

Reason 1 = American drivers said it was silly.
Conclusion = Flash photography is silly.

It's logical. That all I was saying. Your argument is equally as logical. Just saying that what he's saying is not complete rubbish, it's backed up by evidence, as is yours, depends who's opinion we consider to be more valid.
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You don't win an argument by saying phrases like 'you don't need to think about'. The fact it's being discussed proves it needs to be thinked about. Supply the evidence and fight his argument, simple enough, and he'll do the same.

 

[adambro]

No wonder trainspotters are getting a bad name if they're going about terribly arrogant like LilLoaf. Using a flash in a station is irresponsible, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you shouldn't be taking photos at stations. Ultimately though, a small built in flash is unlikely to make a good photo in a station context so it doesn't say too much about the photography skills of those who do it.

 

[richa2002]

Exactly, why cant these people see that?

Person. I totally see it! LilLoaf is just going off what he's been told by a driver.

 

[class 313]

Okay, fair enough. But his argument is logical.

Reason 1 = American drivers said it was silly.
Conclusion = Flash photography is silly.

It's logical. That all I was saying. Your argument is equally as logical. Just saying that what he's saying is not complete rubbish, it's backed up by evidence, as is yours, depends who's opinion we consider to be more valid.
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You don't win an argument by saying phrases like 'you don't need to think about'. The fact it's being discussed proves it needs to be thinked about. Supply the evidence and fight his argument, simple enough, and he'll do the same.

Several people here (and in past threads) have agreed drivers are effected. GB and I have given two examples. But because American drivers think its silly, it must be silly? What kind of argument is that?

It's not about winning an argument. I don't see as an argument. You can't argue it doesn't effect drivers when it simply does. That is a fact.
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No wonder trainspotters are getting a bad name if they're going about terribly arrogant like LilLoaf. Using a flash in a station is irresponsible, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you shouldn't be taking photos at stations. Ultimately though, a small built in flash is unlikely to make a good photo in a station context so it doesn't say too much about the photography skills of those who do it.

Exactly, well said.

 

[richa2002]

Several people here (and in past threads) have agreed drivers are effected. GB and I have given two examples. But because American drivers think its silly, it must be silly? What kind of argument is that?

It's not about winning an argument. I don't see as an argument. You can't argue it doesn't effect drivers when it simply does. That is a fact.

What you can't seem to grasp is that the fact another driver has disagreed means it is not fact, it is opinion. I agree the flash rule should be in place. Just saying that LilLoaf's evidence is valid...

 

[class 313]

What you can't seem to grasp is that the fact another driver has disagreed means it is not fact, it is opinion. I agree the flash rule should be in place. Just saying that LilLoaf's evidence is valid...

:roll: But it does effect drivers! National Rail wouldn't have the rule there for ****s and giggles.

 

[Mintona]

:roll: But it does effect drivers! National Rail wouldn't have the rule there for ****s and giggles.

You can never quite be sure with National Rail hock:

 

[richa2002]

Please just listen to me. I know the flash has an effect! But another driver has said that the flash rule is laughable. Suggesting that there is doubt whether it has an affect or not. Surely you can see that. Yes the overwhelming evidence from this thread shows that the flash does have an adverse effect but you must accept that LilLoaf has provided evidence suggesting it doesn't.

 

[Mintona]

There http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvPuYcNU64

Lots of spotters taking photo's with the flash on the cam, did it crash ? No, did it blind the driver ? No, Did it blind anyone else ? no - simple.

Suppose the drunk lasses at you station all went home blind that night did they ?

No, they didn't all go home blind. I didn't say they were affected. I said I was made temporarily blind, only for a few seconds, but it doesn't matter how long it is for. I would rather be able to go about my job without that risk.

If a flash goes off and you are not expecting it, you will go temporarily blind. Even if you are expecting it, it can still hurt.

 

[class 313]

Please just listen to me. I know the flash has an effect! But another driver has said that the flash rule is laughable. Suggesting that there is doubt whether it has an affect or not. Surely you can see that. Yes the overwhelming evidence from this thread shows that the flash does have an adverse effect but you must accept that LilLoaf has provided evidence suggesting it doesn't.

Look, you have said yourself its blinding. As have 3/4 people including me. I won't accept that because an American has said it doesn't have an affect means it doesn't. Because I know it does, so I will ignore that.

Saying that, what he said isn't much of evidence...

 

[O L Leigh]

I don't actually think that LilLoaf has presented any evidence. He claims the driver wasn't blinded, but he's basing that entirely on the fact that the train didn't crash. I've been momentarily blinded by a buffoon taking a flash photo of my train as I was pulling up to the stops but didn't crash. That doesn't mean I wasn't blinded or that it wasn't a distraction at a key moment. To use this as a support for an argument against flash photography on stations is absurd.

I'm a driver but I'm not American.

O L Leigh

 

[richa2002]

True. Maybe a survey should be commisioned.

 

[class 313]

I don't actually think that LilLoaf has presented any evidence. He claims the driver wasn't blinded, but he's basing that entirely on the fact that the train didn't crash. I've been momentarily blinded by a buffoon taking a flash photo of my train as I was pulling up to the stops but didn't crash. That doesn't mean I wasn't blinded or that it wasn't a distraction at a key moment. To use this as a support for an argument against flash photography on stations is absurd.

I'm a driver but I'm not American.

O L Leigh

Which is why I ignored his so called evidence! Thanks O L Leigh for that.

 

[richa2002]

I don't actually think that LilLoaf has presented any evidence. He claims the driver wasn't blinded, but he's basing that entirely on the fact that the train didn't crash. I've been momentarily blinded by a buffoon taking a flash photo of my train as I was pulling up to the stops but didn't crash. That doesn't mean I wasn't blinded or that it wasn't a distraction at a key moment. To use this as a support for an argument against flash photography on stations is absurd.

I'm a driver but I'm not American.

O L Leigh

I didn't consider that evidence as valid. Just the American driver's comments really.

 

[class 313]

True. Maybe a survey should be commisioned.

:roll:

What's funny is you blocked me for 'carrying on' yet you carry on here until a driver himself says his say.
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I didn't consider that evidence has valid. Just the American driver's comments really.

Oh dear!

If you didn't think it was valid, why even start!?

 

[richa2002]

:roll:

What's funny is you blocked me for 'carrying on' yet you carry on here until a driver himself says his say.
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Oh dear!

If you didn't think it was valid, why even start!?

1) Blocked on MSN becuase arguing on MSN is tiresome with no time to think of a considered response. Don't think anyone on this forum particularly cares about that though.

2) Read what I said and what I quoted instead of instant reactions. 'I don't actually think that LilLoaf has presented any evidence. He claims the driver wasn't blinded' is what 'O L Leigh' said as not valid evidence and I agree. I do consider the American driver's evidence however as valid.

 

[adambro]

Another thing to remember is that the railway are not a playground for train spotters. I strongly suspect that, even whilst you might question the safety aspects, most drivers will find a flash going off whilst they are trying to concentrate on their work simply irritating. The authorities are free to impose rules against flash even if it is just on that basis and it still should be respected. There is no right to access the railways, that is a privilege, and more people should appreciate that and be a little more respectful to those whom are trying to make a living.

 

[class 313]

1) Blocked on MSN becuase arguing on MSN is tiresome with no time to think of a considered response. Don't think anyone on this forum particularly cares about that though.

2) Read what I said and what I quoted instead of instant reactions. 'I don't actually think that LilLoaf has presented any evidence. He claims the driver wasn't blinded' is what 'O L Leigh' said as not valid evidence and I agree. I do consider the American driver's evidence however as valid.

You don't even know if that's true or not. Whereas various people have proved it does. Doesn't give you much to stand on does it?

 

[O L Leigh]

I've got to agree with Adambro's sentiment.

As a railway employee I have no problem with the real enthusiasts. They turn up, stand on the end of Bethnal Green platform and do what they do without impeding the safe operation of the railway. On the rare times I talk to them I find it interesting to find out where they've come from and whether they're watching for something specific. It seems to perk them up no end to have even a brief chat with a real driver. They are respectful, knowledgeable and love their hobby.

Then again, you do get the ocassional idiot who thinks he knows his/her rights. Unfortunately they are often wrong about that. Without wishing to open up the other side of this discussion yet again, the railway is private property to which there is no public right of access. Once on the premises you are subject not only to law but to the railway bye-laws. I honestly think that it's only the tiny majority of staff who want to dot the "I's" and cross the "T's", but then we do have to be cautious and aware of what is going on around us. To link back to the thread title, what does a terrorist look like and how are we to identify them?

I think you'll all have to stop reading the Daily Mail.

**EDIT**

Richard/Tom: Are you two actually agreeing...? In which case, why the argument?

O L Leigh

 

[richa2002]

No, you're saying the flash rule is unarguable. It is arguable due to there being a difference of opinion, that's a simple fact of life! If you don't believe the evidence then fair enough, but we can't prove either way so have to at least accept it or the whole act of people giving evidence is useless. What's to say yours or anyone else's is more true? Yes, we have it from the 'horse's mouth' so to speak such as 'O L Leigh' but if we're being so suspicious about the truthfulness as you are, then what's to say he's telling the truth or even a train driver at all? I'm sure he is, just making a point that you should respect LilLoaf's evidence. Regardless anyway, as it stands, the evidence is in support of the rule. Stop directing so much hate towards me, I'm not the one arguing in favour of 'LilLoaf', just the validity of evidence.

Stop going around with a chip on your shoulder about these sort of things and chill.
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Richard/Tom: Are you two actually agreeing...? In which case, why the argument?

O L Leigh

Don't know really :?.

 

[Mojo]

If you have an camera with automatic settings and use the flash, then unless you're trying to get some kind of effect, your photo will end up looking naff anyway, so what's the point?