Why are trainspotters being treated like terriorists?

[crewmeal]

Yet again the Daily Mail has dragged up an article about the humble trainspotter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1105207/The-train-spotters-treated-like-terrorists.html

Are we turning into a police state or is it the press going over the top again?

 

[O L Leigh]

The latter.

O L Leigh

 

[EM2]

Definitely the latter. People are stopped and searched for any number of reasons, and a very small proportion of those might be enthusiasts (as they make up a small percentage of the population as a whole).
Of all the s&s I've seen over the last year or so, none of them were enthusiasts.

 

[Max]

But to the question 'are we turning into a police state', I'd say scarily like one. My friend who takes photography at a local college (she's taken some excellent shots!) was randomly threatened by the police a few weeks ago for taking photos in a public place in Hull city centre. The world is truly going mad.

 

[John_158]

The only answer I can give on this subject is that the BTP and Network rail Staff have nothing better to do and that the Humble Train Spotter / Enthusiast are seen as easy targets namely for the BTP to get there quota up and away for Network Rail Staff to make them self’s look important.

Sorry to say this but if a terrorist wanted to blow up a train then they would which sadly has been the case in London no mater how much or how many police you have you will never stop terrorist any wear.

Quite frankly members I know of the BTP and NR would run a mile to put it politely if they did come across a terrorist on one of there operations.

I have had numerous incidents with Network Rail Staff when I have been taking a photo of a train both when just travelled on it and just before travelling on it but since I made a formal complaint I have not been bothered since

 

[EM2]

The only answer I can give on this subject is that the BTP and Network rail Staff have nothing better to do and that the Humble Train Spotter / Enthusiast are seen as easy targets namely for the BTP to get there quota up and away for Network Rail Staff to make them self’s look important.

Quite frankly, that is cobblers. And as a member of NR staff, I take a very dim view of people thinking that I am a power-crazed bully-boy who gets his kicks from victimising enthusiasts.
NONE of my colleagues have harassed a spotter and nor would we. We have a lot more important things to do than stress about someone taking numbers or a few photos. If they leave their bag at the end of the platform and wander off around the station, we'd have some strong words but that's probably the only reason.
Nor do the BTP harass enthusiasts. As I said earlier, I have never seen an enthusiast stopped and searched.

 

[yorkie]

Yet again the Daily Mail has dragged up an article about the humble trainspotter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1105207/The-train-spotters-treated-like-terrorists.html

Are we turning into a police state or is it the press going over the top again?

Definitely the former. No doubt about it. I was stopped and searched for terrorism reasons for taking a photo of a HST in between changing trains at Leeds. The BTP were bored as they were waiting for the same train as me, which was delayed, as football hooligans were causing a problem on it and it wasn't expectef for 10 minutes. So they had to do something to fill the time, I guess.

We ARE heading for a police state.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7755974.stm

" I may sound strangely medieval, but once the police can interfere with Parliament, I tell you, you are into a police state " - Tony Benn

He's absolutely right.

 

[GB]

The only answer I can give on this subject is that the BTP and Network rail Staff have nothing better to do and that the Humble Train Spotter / Enthusiast are seen as easy targets namely for the BTP to get there quota up and away for Network Rail Staff to make them self’s look important.

Sorry to say this but if a terrorist wanted to blow up a train then they would which sadly has been the case in London no mater how much or how many police you have you will never stop terrorist any wear.

Quite frankly members I know of the BTP and NR would run a mile to put it politely if they did come across a terrorist on one of there operations.

I have had numerous incidents with Network Rail Staff when I have been taking a photo of a train both when just travelled on it and just before travelling on it but since I made a formal complaint I have not been bothered since

TOC staff and BTP I could believe, but I honestly don't believe that NR staff are the problem....not unless you were being silly (which I am not saying you were).

 

[yorkie]

Nor do the BTP harass enthusiasts. As I said earlier, I have never seen an enthusiast stopped and searched.

Some do! I am sure many do not. And I've heard several stories of enthusiasts being stopped and searched. It happened to me in 2006, and terrorism was the pathetic weasel's excuse.

By the way no-one was saying that you personally harrass enthusiasts!

As for whether NR staff generally do it, well it is not common but it does occasionally happen. Again, I've seen it myself at some of the major London termini. It tends to be security-type people.

 

[LilLoaf]

Who its that do the stop and search thing anyway ? BTP by any chance, really wouldn't supprise me.

I was asked to stop taking photo's on train once so being me, pulled out a copy of the guide lines available on the internet and lept straight into an arguement. He said i hadn't signed in, absolutly right i hadn't it was an unstaffed station, i said so who do i sign in with, a lady who ones the cottage next to station, Mr Random passenger on the station, the invisable man !! He gave up and left me alone.

And then we come to the subject of why they turn up at community rail events, eg Heaton and watch people take photo's when they are the people (among others) who tell us not to.

Its total madness. Whats the world coming to if we carn't take pictures of trains ? Its been going on for years ! ! Is it going to stop now ? Not if we all stand out ground it won't.

 

[yorkie]

Let's not discuss the whole 'signing in' thing - it's been done to death on this forum (and led to a massive argument) and it's been done to death elsewhere. I have strong views on it but I'm not going to post them again!

Only the police can do a stop & search, yes that includes BTP.

We can take pictures of trains, there is no law against it and also no rules against it either. It's just that if we do we may be suspected of terrorism, stopped and searched.

 

[Techniquest]

Well I'm one of the enthusiasts who had attention from the BTP once (as did James, he was with me) at London Bridge, back in 2005 IIRC. Apparently someone thought we were acting suspiciously (taking a photo here and there as well as writing down all the stuff that came through) and alerted them to us. We got talked to, they had a quick look in our bags and the photos I'd taken and gave us a pink (I'm sure it was pink, maybe white. I had it in storage until 2007) slip each. Not exactly a stop-and-search but close enough for me.

One point I MUST raise is that these officers were most pleasant and polite and perfectly happy to tell us why they came to see us. I swear the one who had a look at my notebook (I showed him what we were writing, plenty of 465s, 466s, 376s and 375s in the time we were there!) nearly had his eyes pop out of his head at how much I'd written down!

So yeah, not all of them are nasty beggars, we had friendly ones so some people just must have had bad luck.

As for the article, I read it tonight after my sister told me of it. In my eyes, it reads a lot like that article about flailing The Daily Fail (sorry, Daily Mail ) ran the other week. Mis-informed and a lod of codswallop.

 

[yorkie]

You were lucky they were friendly, as many are. But on other occasions they have been less than friendly. And you were stopped and searched, just nicely. If you had been wanting to catch a train at that moment they could have made you miss it.

 

[EE Type 3]

I tried to blow up Ironbridge museum today with a bomb that looked like a camera. Nearly did, but a train came along and foiled my plans

 

[metrocammel]

Nor do the BTP harass enthusiasts. As I said earlier, I have never seen an enthusiast stopped and searched.

I've never personally seen it happen, however, from the numerous stories I've heard, it does seem to be an all too common occurance. It appears the BTP had a 'sting' on people photographing the Pathfinder tour at Southport last month, several people I know, some of whom are on this forum, where stopped & searched there- after, afaik, asking the station staff if they were OK to take photos!

Reading Today's Railways UK the other month, apparently one of their reporters got stopped & searched at New Street while on the way to a Network Rail convention!

 

[Metroland]

The Prevention of Terrorism Act 2000 has been used to stop a staggering 62,584 people at railway stations.

Another 87,000 were questioned under separate 'stop and search' and 'stop and account' legislation.

Taken at face value, that is a truly frightening statistic - especially as you can be shipped off for questioning and detained for many days.

Let's hope certain tabloid paper readers don't vote in any unsavoury political parties, because the British lost their back bone long ago.

 

[Guinness]

I just love the Daily Mail "The world is going to end" type headlines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=James+Slack From the same author..

 

[metrocammel]

I just love the Daily Mail "The world is going to end" type headlines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=James+Slack From the same author..

That's what sells though!

If they had boring headlines, no one would want to read them! You should read some of the 'headlines' of the even trashier newspapers. "Freddie Starr ate my hamster" comes to mind!!

It's a fact, boring headlines don't sell tabloids!

 

[Benn88]

I've just had a read of the Daily Mail flailing article... It makes me laugh how they blow the story completly out of the water by saying the Peak Army make Nazi Style saluts!! It's a flail and it's most certainly nothing to do with the Nazis! Do your research Daily FAIL!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-ban-claims-yobbish-behaviour.html#comments

 

[Metroland]

You mean the article written by Mr Woolmer?

You don't have to read the Daily Mail though to know about overzealous Police and TOCs - whose case for stopping enthusiasts seems every bit as overstated as some populist media tripe. Unless you are naive, stupid or just in plain denial, erosion of your rights fought for over many centuries should be a matter of concern. One reason why history should be taught in schools.

 

[LilLoaf]

I think the daily mail is in a class of its own what it comes to newspapers.

As for the whole trainspotters being possiable terrorests i think is just well you either laugh about it or cry about it don't you. Are terrorests really going to stand on end of a platform taking photo's and writing a little plan down in a notebook, i really don't think so. Its totally pathetic how you carnt do anything in this world with it being dangerous. Same with flash photograghy, thats now soo dangerous.

Its about time the powers that be, woke up, and took a good long look at problems the world faces. Train spotters as terrorests, so are you laughing or crying about the thought now. Its quite comical i reckin, its also quite pathertic as well though.

 

[GB]

I think the daily mail is in a class of its own what it comes to newspapers.

As for the whole trainspotters being possiable terrorests i think is just well you either laugh about it or cry about it don't you. Are terrorests really going to stand on end of a platform taking photo's and writing a little plan down in a notebook, i really don't think so. Its totally pathetic how you carnt do anything in this world with it being dangerous. Same with flash photograghy, thats now soo dangerous.
Its about time the powers that be, woke up, and took a good long look at problems the world faces. Train spotters as terrorests, so are you laughing or crying about the thought now. Its quite comical i reckin, its also quite pathertic as well though.

(my bold/resize)

Didn't we have this argument last time regarding flash photography on stations?

 

[class 313]

i really don't think so. Its totally pathetic how you carnt do anything in this world with it being dangerous. Same with flash photograghy, thats now soo dangerous.

Take a photo with flash and the driver gets blinded. Simple. Specially in darker areas...

:roll:

 

[LilLoaf]

And so it begins.... we have been through this before GB just led to major arguement. How long will it be before playing music on a phone while sitting behind the cab is also distracting to the driver. And fire works are distracting, and trying to get the horns, and women it short skirts, and so on.

I just think the whole thing about not being able to simply work down a platform to take a photo without getting Stopped and searched, asked to sign, ask what we are doing, not taking ap photo's with the flash on, for crying out load its a digital camera in my hand not a lighthouse, how bright can it be, if i can take photo's of my friends from 10 inches away without blinding them, then i can take a photo's of a train from 50 feet away without blinding the driver.

 

[jopsuk]

And so it begins.... we have been through this before GB just led to major arguement. How long will it be before playing music on a phone while sitting behind the cab is also distracting to the driver. And fire works are distracting, and trying to get the horns, and women it short skirts, and so on.

I just think the whole thing about not being able to simply work down a platform to take a photo without getting Stopped and searched, asked to sign, ask what we are doing, not taking ap photo's with the flash on, for crying out load its a digital camera in my hand not a lighthouse, how bright can it be, if i can take photo's of my friends from 10 inches away without blinding them, then i can take a photo's of a train from 50 feet away without blinding the driver.

If you took a photo of your mate from 10" away with a big proffesional-level flash, you'd leave them temporarily blinded. Just briefly, yes, but with a fast train that's enough to cause problems.
Fireworks are generally far enough away to cause no problems- for a point source such as a firework the intensity of light decreases by the cube of the distance from the source.
You try and write a rule that allows you to use the weedy flash on your compact but bans big flashes. One without loopholes, vaguness or grey areas.

 

[class 313]

And so it begins.... we have been through this before GB just led to major arguement. How long will it be before playing music on a phone while sitting behind the cab is also distracting to the driver. And fire works are distracting, and trying to get the horns, and women it short skirts, and so on.

No, you started by spouting that flash wasn't a problem. It is, get over it.

 

[Techniquest]

I've just had a read of the Daily Mail flailing article... It makes me laugh how they blow the story completly out of the water by saying the Peak Army make Nazi Style saluts!! It's a flail and it's most certainly nothing to do with the Nazis! Do your research Daily FAIL!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-ban-claims-yobbish-behaviour.html#comments

Would dread to think what the poor gentleman in coach B with us on 221102 t'other day thought when we had a bit of a random flail...

 

[LilLoaf]

Taking photo's of trains with flash on or off is not a problem in the slightest.

Its Health and Safety gone mad.

Stopping and searching people is paranoia.

simple as that

 

[GB]

Using flash can and does cause issuse for people in the cab...I know from expierience, it may only be temporary, but thats all it takes to start an incident!

Ok in your opinion the flash on a standard camera is no big deal, what happens if you have several spotters at the end of a platform all using flash??? its gonna end up looking like a bleeding paparazzi meeting:roll:

I fail to see how you don't understand this:roll:

 

[Mintona]

Taking photo's of trains with flash on or off is not a problem in the slightest.

Look, it just is! Quite often there are groups of girls at the station on a Friday/Saturday night taking photos of each other drunk, and if the flash goes off, I always tell them to stop it, even if there are no trains about at the time. I have been temporarily blinded by it, and as I have a safety critical role, I don't want anything to happen which could put myself or any trains at danger. Furthermore, it gives me an excuse to chat to the pretty ladies!

But Liloaf, this isn't what the article is about.

Re. The comments about a Police State. Is it so bad?