Strike ballot coming for Arriva Northern.

[Dave1987]

Well said, I'm sure you're also typical of the vast majority of your colleagues.

I get frustrated by the jealous/envious arguments put out by rail staff (although I understand why they say it). In my own case, I'm not in the least jealous or envious, and wouldn't want the job anyway, but any comments I make are still just as likely to be taken as simply envy. It might help healthy discussion if rail staff stopped throwing out the same old terminology every time that anybody questions their actions.

I'm very well aware how fortunate I am to be in the job I am, and I will never take it for granted. But when I talk to people about the nitty gritty of my job they actually start to understand why we are paid what we are. Most pay talk disputes are to do with conditions and not just the headline salary. Of course people always look at the headline salary, and not the conditions that might be at the heart of the matter and not the headline salary.

 

[FordFocus]

Legally speaking, it is a new franchisee which was awarded the current franchise, as the previous joint franchisee relinquished such negotiating positions at the termination of the previous franchise.

I'm fully aware that it's a new franchisee Paul hence the reason I said some managers got moved from Abellio and Arriva which are different private companies.

The point I'm making is the management conducting the negotiations should have known where the union stood in regards to pay talks in particular the concerns about the pay falling behind other regional TOCs. These managers transferred over from Abellio to Arriva, key roles including HR and the MD. So unlike some transfer of TOCs to new parent companies where the new incumbent may have completely new senior management and directors with having to start fresh talks, Northern shouldn't have that issue.

 

[northwichcat]

These managers transferred over from Abellio to Arriva, key roles including HR and the MD. So unlike some transfer of TOCs to new parent companies where the new incumbent may have completely new senior management and directors with having to start fresh talks, Northern shouldn't have that issue.

It might surprise you but talks between the unions and TOC management are the easy bit. Northern management going to Arriva PLC and asking their management for permission to increase operating costs so that employees who have only worked for them a few months an above inflation pay rise is like a Labour MP going to a Conservative minister and asking to increase the level of state benefits.

What I don't understand is why the unions haven't agreed to a contract where it says RPI or x% (which ever is higher) pay rise every year. If they had it would be remained when the employees were TUPEd across.
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A strike ballot ia exactly what it says on the tin. If the management of a company suddenly decide, on hearing of a ballot being called, suddenly decide that actually they can discuss matters after all, that is entirely down to them. You might ask why is it that the position can change so suddenly...

Strike action costs the TOC money so it might be their accountants think a compromise wouldn't cost the TOC anymore and would also protect the reputation of the TOC.
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I'm very well aware how fortunate I am to be in the job I am, and I will never take it for granted. But when I talk to people about the nitty gritty of my job they actually start to understand why we are paid what we are. Most pay talk disputes are to do with conditions and not just the headline salary. Of course people always look at the headline salary, and not the conditions that might be at the heart of the matter and not the headline salary.

I agree it's a lot more than a headline salary or just the pay level increase e.g. a 2.7% pay increase wouldn't sound good if it was accompanied by a 2.5% increase in working hours.

However, you had a choice of whether or not to sign the original contract so any changes to the contract aren't an automatic right for either the employer or the employee. Although I accept in the case of some of the lower paid railway workers they might have been pressured in to taking on the job due to a lack of jobs elsewhere and would have signed anything to get a full time job.

 

[Carlisle]

The point I'm making is the management conducting the negotiations should have known where the union stood .

Haven't you forgotten that the unions have hardened their stance some issues in recent years so management pussyfooting around them right now is probably largely pointless unless they've intending to concede to virtually all their demands

 

[FordFocus]

It might surprise you but talks between the unions and TOC management are the easy bit. Northern management going to Arriva PLC and asking their management for permission to increase operating costs so that employees who have only worked for them a few months an above inflation pay rise is like a Labour MP going to a Conservative minister and asking to increase the level of state benefits.

It also might surprise you that Arriva aren't exactly new to the rail industry and have been in the business for around 16 years now. Pay talks aren't suddenly a new spectacle, the Arriva board see staffing cost changes each year.

Arriva bid for a franchise and did some homework on revenue, costs and any outstanding issues with the company. One of these outstanding issues (that the managing director who transferred with the TOC is well aware of) is the pay deal for 2016 has not yet been agreed for the vast majority of it's workforce. I strongly suspect Arriva have already costed it and put money aside for any pay deal.

No idea where your going with that MP bit of your post :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

Arriva bid for a franchise and did some homework on revenue, costs and any outstanding issues with the company. One of these outstanding issues (that the managing director who transferred with the TOC is well aware of) is the pay deal for 2016 has not yet been agreed for the vast majority of it's workforce. I strongly suspect Arriva have already costed it and put money aside for any pay deal.

If there's a requirement in your contracts for a pay rise of a certain amount then Arriva will have had to allow for that. They may even have allowed for one at the rate of inflation even if your contract only says your pay will be reviewed every year (a review doesn't have to result in a pay rise.) However, if the unions want an above inflation pay rise when Arriva management haven't allowed for it then Northern management won't just be able to walk in to their office and get it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just an idle thought that came to me whilst awakening this morning. If a full-blown industrial dispute on the new Northern franchise by both the RMT and ASLEF rail unions should occur, will a leaf be taken out of the book of the current Southern franchise holder and a much-reduced timetable which incorporates the cancellation of many services be brought into play, with the blessing of the DfT?

Of course, it goes without saying, there are far fewer Conservative seats in political terms per square mile in the area of the Northern franchise than in the south-east, so a cunning plan could well be hatched in the realisation that the Labour Party under its present leadership and ideology have no real power to effect any real changes as such, but prefer the theoretical political soul-searching that seems to be their current modus operandi.

 

[HH]

Strike action costs the TOC money so it might be their accountants think a compromise wouldn't cost the TOC anymore and would also protect the reputation of the TOC.

If only things were that logical in fact. Decisions sometimes seem to be made out if a desire to show who has the biggest cojones.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

Just send me the ballot paper and lets get on with it. If you are going to have a fight you may as well make it bloody and painful.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

The information is easily found about remuneration for Nurses and various NHS staff. I have 2 close personal friends in the NHS and one friend who was quite senior (recently retired) and many other acquaintances along the way.



I have the utmost respect for nurses and pretty much every single NHS employee. I've been around NHS employees for many years but let's not be disingenuous about what they earn, hours they keep or what pay rises and benefits they get. Personally, I'd double their salary.

incremental pay rises are achieved by paying less then the going rate for all or much of the period when incremental progression is in effect ...