Wakefield Kirkgate - lost opportunity

[anti-pacer]

Given the much hyped refurbishment of my city's second station, I have to say what how disappointed I am with it. Whilst the frontage looks nice enough, the interior looks hardly any different.

The entrance is covered in bird poo, the platforms are nearly always littered, and it still retains an air of poor safety. The only saving grace is a cafe.

There are no Northern staff there, no ticket office, no toilets. It also gets a bad press on social media pages.

What are your views on it as a station and a gateway to a city?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I largely agree. One thing's for sure though: if it was Winchester or Woking Kirkgate, there'd have been a bit more effort and investment.

Cynical, moi?

 

[J-2739]

I pass Wakefield Kirkgate when going up to Leeds and I can tell you, it still looks like a ghosts hideout.

 

[anti-pacer]

I largely agree. One thing's for sure though: if it was Winchester or Woking Kirkgate, there'd have been a bit more effort and investment.

Cynical, moi?

No I agree. Given it now has services to places as far away as Nottingham and London, it's no backwater station. It's also the nearest station to the Hepworth Gallery.

The greeting when you leave the station is awful but the council are starting to regenerate that area. The station itself though needs more.... and staff!
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I pass Wakefield Kirkgate when going up to Leeds and I can tell you, it still looks like a ghosts hideout.

Very well put.

 

[DarloRich]

It is much better than it ever was. It no longer looks like a smack head/muggers playground.

It is a fairly massive backwater on a secondary line. The direct London trains (GC apart) go from Westgate as do most of the passengers. There isnt much of anything near Kirkgate apart from the Hepworth ( which is well worth a visit).

It isnt even the nearest station to Belle Vue!

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is much better than it ever was. It no longer looks like a smack head/muggers playground.

It is a lot better than it was, much brighter and lighter and it doesn't look derelict anymore.

But the issues that led to that young girl being raped in the subway in the early evening have not gone away, and nothing really has been done about the safety within the station. The island platform is still lonely and desolate at night, that subway still gives you the shivers, and whilst the CCTV means someone can see you be attacked there still isn't the staff presence to actually prevent an attack.

 

[anti-pacer]

It is much better than it ever was. It no longer looks like a smack head/muggers playground.

It is a fairly massive backwater on a secondary line. The direct London trains (GC apart) go from Westgate as do most of the passengers. There isnt much of anything near Kirkgate apart from the Hepworth ( which is well worth a visit).

It isnt even the nearest station to Belle Vue!

DarloRich, it is a much busier station than you're giving it credit for. I was there yesterday for the 1123 to Nottingham and the amount of people waiting for the 1113 GC to London was staggering. I agree Westgate gets the lions share of passengers but even so, Kirkgate isn't insignificant.

It has improved since refurbishment, although not a lot. Go there at night and it's the local teenagers hangout some nights. It's still unsafe, dirty, and univiting. Look at the Facebook page for the station and the reviews.

It should have a ticket office and be staffed. Smaller stations in West Yorkshire are.
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It is a lot better than it was, much brighter and lighter and it doesn't look derelict anymore.

But the issues that led to that young girl being raped in the subway in the early evening have not gone away, and nothing really has been done about the safety within the station. The island platform is still lonely and desolate at night, that subway still gives you the shivers, and whilst the CCTV means someone can see you be attacked there still isn't the staff presence to actually prevent an attack.

Agreed.

 

[DarloRich]

It is a lot better than it was, much brighter and lighter and it doesn't look derelict anymore.

But the issues that led to that young girl being raped in the subway in the early evening have not gone away, and nothing really has been done about the safety within the station. The island platform is still lonely and desolate at night, that subway still gives you the shivers, and whilst the CCTV means someone can see you be attacked there still isn't the staff presence to actually prevent an attack.

DarloRich, it is a much busier station than you're giving it credit for. I was there yesterday for the 1123 to Nottingham and the amount of people waiting for the 1113 GC to London was staggering. I agree Westgate gets the lions share of passengers but even so, Kirkgate isn't insignificant.

It has improved since refurbishment, although not a lot. Go there at night and it's the local teenagers hangout some nights. It's still unsafe, dirty, and univiting. Look at the Facebook page for the station and the reviews.

It should have a ticket office and be staffed. Smaller stations in West Yorkshire are.

I agree it isnt perfect. It is, however, better. For a small station in a fairly run down city it has done well. It is worth remembering that BOTH stations in Wakefield have been spruced up

Kirkgate has new entrances, better lighting, better accessibility, CCTV, a nicer subway, waiting spaces, new canopies, new glazing, new PIS. it is much better than it was. Even I felt unsafe there at night ( and I am not one of the softee brigade) but it is better than it was an i don't feel i will get a kicking there now.

Perhaps a ticket office should have been provided ( and I thought there were plans for this) but we run into that most insoluble of problems: money. I know commercial realism isnt welcome here but it does have to make an appearance from time to time. For comparison:

Kirkgate passengers p/a: 0.527m
Westgate passengers p/a: 2.485m

In any event it wouldn't be staffed at the times you are worried about. I doubt the ticket office would be open beyond 17/1800 or before 07/0800 leaving the station exactly as it is now. The simple point is that no one will pay for the staff.

 

[anti-pacer]

I agree it isnt perfect. It is, however, better. For a small station in a fairly run down city it has done well. It is worth remembering that BOTH stations in Wakefield have been spruced up

Kirkgate has new entrances, better lighting, better accessibility, CCTV, a nicer subway, waiting spaces, new canopies, new glazing, new PIS. it is much better than it was. Even I felt unsafe there at night ( and I am not one of the softee brigade) but it is better than it was an i don't feel i will get a kicking there now.

Perhaps a ticket office should have been provided ( and I thought there were plans for this) but we run into that most insoluble of problems: money. I know commercial realism isnt welcome here but it does have to make an appearance from time to time. For comparison:

Kirkgate passengers p/a: 0.527m
Westgate passengers p/a: 2.485m

In any event it wouldn't be staffed at the times you are worried about. I doubt the ticket office would be open beyond 17/1800 or before 07/0800 leaving the station exactly as it is now. The simple point is that no one will pay for the staff.

Fairly run down city??? How dare you??? Have you even been to Wakefield, it's well posh.

I joke of course, you're spot on!

 

[DarloRich]

Fairly run down city??? How dare you??? Have you even been to Wakefield, it's well posh.

I joke of course, you're spot on!

I was in Wakefield not 3 days ago ( Flickr pics to come tonight) and I am there on a regular basis. It is no worse than many other northern towns but like many it is getting run down. At least Wakey got the Hepworth and has a nice Cathedral.

 

[J-2739]

It also has that new heritage centre (which looks pretty decent)

I admit, I generally commute to the posh parts of Wakefield so didn't really think it was that bad. Nicer than Barnsley anyway...

 

[anti-pacer]

I was in Wakefield not 3 days ago ( Flickr pics to come tonight) and I am there on a regular basis. It is no worse than many other northern towns but like many it is getting run down. At least Wakey got the Hepworth and has a nice Cathedral.

What brought you to Wakefield?

I have yet to visit the Hepworth. Is it worth a trip? I went to the Sculpture Park for the first time in July and loved it.

Wakefield could be a really nice place and it used to be. It's just not very well looked after and like you say, it's becoming more run down.

One major advantage of living here though, as a rail user, we have an impressive array of destinations by direct trains. It always impresses me that I can get on a train in Bristol, sit down and relax all the way to Wakefield without leaving my seat.
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It also has that new heritage centre (which looks pretty decent)

I admit, I generally commute to the posh parts of Wakefield so didn't really think it was that bad. Nicer than Barnsley anyway...

What posh parts of Wakefield are these?

 

[J-2739]

What posh parts of Wakefield are these?

Notton for a start . It seems like every house over there has to be bigger than a park!

 

[47802]

In terms of *** Holes of the North I wouldn't rate Wakefield the highest, certainly Bradford, Dewsbury would be ranked higher in my book, Kirkgate is certainly an improvement but I would agree it probably doesn't go far enough and it tuck a ridiculous amount of time for it to happen, it should have been done years ago.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

What are your views on it as a station and a gateway to a city?

Gateway to the city isn't helped by the stuff 'off ' railway property ... when the Snooty Fox is the best looking building on Monk st ...

as a station it;s arguably the better station but it's on the wrong bits of track

 

[johntea]

It's a bit like Bradford really - they could spend money on it but they would rather spend money on Leeds and people just travel there on the 10 minute train connection instead!

Wakefield is quite a nice place during the day, it just starts to go downhill when the local 'talent' decide to come out to play!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

With regards to staffing, whilst I do think it was a missed opportunity not to do it with the refurbishment, I would be amazed if it doesn't end up a Northern Connect station, or, failing that, one of the 40 odd Northern have committed to staffing in the new franchise.
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Having checked the Franchise Agreement, it turns out Kirkgate is one of the 36 stations designated for 'Connect' status

 

[DarloRich]

What brought you to Wakefield?

I have yet to visit the Hepworth. Is it worth a trip? I went to the Sculpture Park for the first time in July and loved it.

Wakefield could be a really nice place and it used to be. It's just not very well looked after and like you say, it's becoming more run down.

One major advantage of living here though, as a rail user, we have an impressive array of destinations by direct trains. It always impresses me that I can get on a train in Bristol, sit down and relax all the way to Wakefield without leaving my seat.
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What posh parts of Wakefield are these?

The boss lives at Woody and we have several friends we visit fairly often in Wakey. I often bail at Wakefield rather than Leeds and I tend to use a couple of routes to get from MK/London depending which day of the week it is so use both stations. I have even been and seen the Wildcats play and, before they folded, the football team.

The Hepworth is quite good as long as you keep an open mind. It is modern art based and that worry's a lot of people. There is lots of interesting sculpture and some of the grand Hepworth pieces are impressive as are the Henry Moore bits. It also includes the Wakefield Council art collection which for a small northern industrial city is bloody impressive.

(Founded in 1923 Wakefield’s art collection consists of over 5,000 works. At the core of the collection is a significant group of work by modern British artists)

The cafe is nice if pricey. It a free gallery so pop along - what have you lost?

 

[johntea]

Just read that the total failure of the 'new' Market Hall that was built next to the bus station has been sold off...to make way for a cinema and restaurants!

What on earth is the point of that? There is a cinema and plenty of eating establishments less than a 10 minute walk away in Westgate and they don't seem particularly busy!

That is another point though, the rail stations in Wakefield despite having two are both a bit of a trek from the actual centre / shops!

 

[J-2739]

Just read that the total failure of the 'new' Market Hall that was built next to the bus station has been sold off...to make way for a cinema and restaurants!

What on earth is the point of that? There is a cinema and plenty of eating establishments less than a 10 minute walk away in Westgate and they don't seem particularly busy!

That is another point though, the rail stations in Wakefield despite having two are both a bit of a trek from the actual centre / shops!

You've got the Free City Bus. 0p, reliable circular linking all the local landmarks, bus and train station

 

[anti-pacer]

Gateway to the city isn't helped by the stuff 'off ' railway property ... when the Snooty Fox is the best looking building on Monk st ...

as a station it;s arguably the better station but it's on the wrong bits of track

Hahaha, yes, very true.
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Just read that the total failure of the 'new' Market Hall that was built next to the bus station has been sold off...to make way for a cinema and restaurants!

What on earth is the point of that? There is a cinema and plenty of eating establishments less than a 10 minute walk away in Westgate and they don't seem particularly busy!

That is another point though, the rail stations in Wakefield despite having two are both a bit of a trek from the actual centre / shops!

The market fiasco hasn't gone down too well here at all. We do not need 2 cinemas here.
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You've got the Free City Bus. 0p, reliable circular linking all the local landmarks, bus and train station

This is very true and it's a useful service which I use regularly.
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The boss lives at Woody and we have several friends we visit fairly often in Wakey. I often bail at Wakefield rather than Leeds and I tend to use a couple of routes to get from MK/London depending which day of the week it is so use both stations. I have even been and seen the Wildcats play and, before they folded, the football team.

The Hepworth is quite good as long as you keep an open mind. It is modern art based and that worry's a lot of people. There is lots of interesting sculpture and some of the grand Hepworth pieces are impressive as are the Henry Moore bits. It also includes the Wakefield Council art collection which for a small northern industrial city is bloody impressive.

(Founded in 1923 Wakefield’s art collection consists of over 5,000 works. At the core of the collection is a significant group of work by modern British artists)

The cafe is nice if pricey. It a free gallery so pop along - what have you lost?

I might pop up next week as I'm off. Have you been to the Sculpture Park, DarloRich?
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With regards to staffing, whilst I do think it was a missed opportunity not to do it with the refurbishment, I would be amazed if it doesn't end up a Northern Connect station, or, failing that, one of the 40 odd Northern have committed to staffing in the new franchise.
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Having checked the Franchise Agreement, it turns out Kirkgate is one of the 36 stations designated for 'Connect' status

Yes, I believe the Northern Connect service from Leeds to Lincoln will call there.
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It's a bit like Bradford really - they could spend money on it but they would rather spend money on Leeds and people just travel there on the 10 minute train connection instead!

Wakefield is quite a nice place during the day, it just starts to go downhill when the local 'talent' decide to come out to play!

It's an odd city centre. There are a lot of new, high end looking independent shops opening in parts, but then other parts are dying. Look at Wood Street. The Ridings is half empty at one and whilst Trinity Walk thrives. The bottom of Kirkgate though is scruffy and needs money spending on it.
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In terms of *** Holes of the North I wouldn't rate Wakefield the highest, certainly Bradford, Dewsbury would be ranked higher in my book, Kirkgate is certainly an improvement but I would agree it probably doesn't go far enough and it tuck a ridiculous amount of time for it to happen, it should have been done years ago.

I agree with all your points there.

 

[yorksrob]

Wakefield K is much better. The cafe is ok (although would prefer something a bit cheaper that did a full fry up) and the island platform could do with a decent canopy.

 

[anti-pacer]

Wakefield K is much better. The cafe is ok (although would prefer something a bit cheaper that did a full fry up) and the island platform could do with a decent canopy.

The entrance also needs a net to stop the pigeons messing everywhere.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The entrance also needs a net to stop the pigeons messing everywhere.

Or a regular visit from a falconer.... but there are many stations that could do with that!

With regard to Northern Connect, AIUI the Lincoln service will use the path of the current Nottingham service, but will the other Sheffield terminating semi-fast also be a Connect service?
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Wakefield K is much better. The cafe is ok (although would prefer something a bit cheaper that did a full fry up) and the island platform could do with a decent canopy.

I'm surprised the budget couldn't stretch to a new shelter on the island platform, the existing one is a bit rubbish, and leaves platform 3 seeming like an afterthought.

 

[tsangpogorge]

In terms of *** Holes of the North I wouldn't rate Wakefield the highest, certainly Bradford, Dewsbury would be ranked higher in my book, Kirkgate is certainly an improvement but I would agree it probably doesn't go far enough and it tuck a ridiculous amount of time for it to happen, it should have been done years ago.

How dare you! Bradford and Dewsbury are colourful, vibrant, enriched, multicultural and globalised cities of the 21st century that we should look to emulate across the whole country, you're clearly a dinosaur who doesn't appreciate diversity!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

How dare you! Bradford and Dewsbury are colourful, vibrant, enriched, multicultural and globalised cities of the 21st century that we should look to emulate across the whole country, you're clearly a dinosaur who doesn't appreciate diversity!

lol

i presume you've read T'Bratfud 'Ighway code then , it's very short and succinct


1. it is the will of <chosen deity>

 

[47802]

How dare you! Bradford and Dewsbury are colourful, vibrant, enriched, multicultural and globalised cities of the 21st century that we should look to emulate across the whole country, you're clearly a dinosaur who doesn't appreciate diversity!

Well I don't mind a bit of diversity, I was born in Dewsbury and live roughly half way between Bradford and Dewsbury, but it doesn't alter my opinion of them, I will add Batley, Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike as well for good measure they are all dumps although nothing that a few millions tons of TNT wouldn't fix.

Batley in particular is great the town centre has effectively been replaced by a very large Tesco although it could argued that's an improvement, while the approach road to the station even though its been tidied up in recent years still looks as though it been a bombed out town.

 

[anti-pacer]

Well I don't mind a bit of diversity, I was born in Dewsbury and live roughly half way between Bradford and Dewsbury, but it doesn't alter my opinion of them, I will add Batley, Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike as well for good measure they are all dumps although nothing that a few millions tons of TNT wouldn't fix.

Batley in particular is great the town centre has effectively been replaced by a very large Tesco although it could argued that's an improvement, while the approach road to the station even though its been tidied up in recent years still looks as though it been a bombed out town.

Most of West Yorkshire is a dump. It always baffles me when locals bang on about it being "God's Own County/Country".

No self respecting god would choose this place as his own.

 

[matacaster]

Notton for a start . It seems like every house over there has to be bigger than a park!

Newmillerdam is good. Nice lake to walk round, decent car park. Super Italian restaurant - La Fortezza, plus a decent pub Fox & Hounds. Only thing that spoils it is lack of nearby train service!

 

[anti-pacer]

Newmillerdam is good. Nice lake to walk round, decent car park. Super Italian restaurant - La Fortezza, plus a decent pub Fox & Hounds. Only thing that spoils it is lack of nearby train service!

Newmillerdam is nice. One of a few gems around here.