Cross-City Electrification from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove

[moggie]

It's not just track remodelling to complete the new layout at Bromsgrove which was far from final when the new station was opened. It also includes complete resignalling which I believe is from Abbotswood Jcn excl to Blackwell Incl. (please correct if mistaken) and transfer of control for this stretch to WMSC from Gloucester PSB. This of course will also provide the immunity against AC current in preparation for the forthcoming electrification. No doubt they'll also crack on with the electrification installation during the block.

 

[The Planner]

Should involve the re-control up to Five Ways and removes the last panel at Saltley PSB too.

 

[D1009]

It's not just track remodelling to complete the new layout at Bromsgrove which was far from final when the new station was opened. It also includes complete resignalling which I believe is from Abbotswood Jcn excl to Blackwell Incl. (please correct if mistaken) and transfer of control for this stretch to WMSC from Gloucester PSB.

Will this mean that the stretch will transfer from Network Rail Western Route to LNW?

 

[The Planner]

Yes, the route number changes but some maintenance boundaries stay the same or alter depending on delivery unit.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Will this mean that the stretch will transfer from Network Rail Western Route to LNW?

Yes, the route number changes but some maintenance boundaries stay the same or alter depending on delivery unit.

The Midland has got 16 miles of its route back, after 60 years.
One day it will get Droitwich and Worcester too (and I suppose the Malvern route).
And Worcestershire Parkway when it is built?

 

[Bald Rick]

The Midland has got 16 miles of its route back, after 60 years.
One day it will get Droitwich and Worcester too (and I suppose the Malvern route).
And Worcestershire Parkway when it is built?

Midlands Zone had all of that from 1994 for a few years.

 

[40907]

Dare we wonder if after Bromsgrove there might be some improvements on the Worcester-Hereford route, ie the single line sections, Abbotswood to Droitwich, and Malvern Wells- Ledbury and Ledbury- Hereford?
I suppose also--thankfully--the overloaded two-car "stagger" up the Lickey on a LM service ex-Hereford might be a thing of the past...or not, as the case may be?
Have not used the route since the new station opened, so the DMU's do have a modest "run" at the incline.

 

[The Planner]

Doubt it.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Quite right, the entire Worcester triangle and surrounding single lines is a mess.

It seems to me that the rail industry as a whole are sat in a comfort zone on this abysmal situation.
Passengers off Snow Hill line services get services into Shrub Hill just because the train crew depot and the sidings are there. Services need to go routinely into Foregate Street which is in the city centre. Furthermore recent "life extention works" in the Worcester area seems to have done nothing to reduce delays attributale to NR. As for shoving everthing up through Kidderminster duing the Bromsgrove blockade, sorry that aint working Mr Planner. Worcester needs sorting from a passenger point of view.

 

[Class172]

I suppose also--thankfully--the overloaded two-car "stagger" up the Lickey on a LM service ex-Hereford might be a thing of the past...or not, as the case may be?
Have not used the route since the new station opened, so the DMU's do have a modest "run" at the incline.

The 'stagger' should hopefully improve given the extra run-up to the start of the incline. I've only travelled southbound recently so I've not had chance to observe any effect.

The 'overloaded' part won't change much, even when the electric service commences, as the trains are often full before reaching Bromsgrove.

Quite right, the entire Worcester triangle and surrounding single lines is a mess.

It seems to me that the rail industry as a whole are sat in a comfort zone on this abysmal situation.
Passengers off Snow Hill line services get services into Shrub Hill just because the train crew depot and the sidings are there. Services need to go routinely into Foregate Street which is in the city centre. Furthermore recent "life extention works" in the Worcester area seems to have done nothing to reduce delays attributale to NR. As for shoving everthing up through Kidderminster duing the Bromsgrove blockade, sorry that aint working Mr Planner. Worcester needs sorting from a passenger point of view.

It was interesting to see in the ITT for the new franchise that it was fully recognised that a higher off-peak frequency service is required between Birmingham New Street and Worcester, however no commitments were given to it due to constraints; rather it was stated that bidders that can provide a plan would be looked upon favourably. I'm interested to know what these 'constraints' are considering the line currently enjoys 2tph at peak time?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The 'stagger' should hopefully improve given the extra run-up to the start of the incline. I've only travelled southbound recently so I've not had chance to observe any effect.

The 'overloaded' part won't change much, even when the electric service commences, as the trains are often full before reaching Bromsgrove.


It was interesting to see in the ITT for the new franchise that it was fully recognised that a higher off-peak frequency service is required between Birmingham New Street and Worcester, however no commitments were given to it due to constraints; rather it was stated that bidders that can provide a plan would be looked upon favourably. I'm interested to know what these 'constraints' are considering the line currently enjoys 2tph at peak time?

See where you a comming from as a Droitwich person but as someone in the Kiddermister sevice hole it don't work.

 

[The Planner]

Furthermore recent "life extention works" in the Worcester area seems to have done nothing to reduce delays attributale to NR. As for shoving everthing up through Kidderminster duing the Bromsgrove blockade, sorry that aint working Mr Planner. Worcester needs sorting from a passenger point of view.

Thats because the life extention works are purely weasly words for "we can't afford to do anything and we will worry about it in another 10 years." It isnt meant to make it better as the words suggest. As for sending everything via Kidderminster, whats not working ignoring the broken rails?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Thats because the life extention works are purely weasly words for "we can't afford to do anything and we will worry about it in another 10 years." It isnt meant to make it better as the words suggest. As for sending everything via Kidderminster, whats not working ignoring the broken rails?

It was a mess this morning performance wise and as a passenger we are fed up of people sitting in offices in front of a compurer telling us it works fine. Worcester is a mess from a passenger point of view, PPM just tells the the industry that they have done what they want to. Not what people need.

 

[The Planner]

Right, so ignoring the PPM rant what went wrong?

 

[Techniquest]

I can't comment on the diversions, as it was fine on Wednesday for me.

However, very much 'hear hear' from me on service improvements on Hereford-Worcester-Birmingham services! The North Cotswolds got improved, after a long time of waiting admittedly, which helped things no end. Still some incredible waits at Shrub Hill and Evesham on services in places mind. We need improvements! That single line section between Droitwich Spa and Stoke Works Junction needs sorting out, and the mess between from Henwick Junction onwards heading east has been just ridiculous for years.

Maybe in the 2060s...

 

[The Planner]

How many trains are you expecting along the single line section for something to be done? Its 6 minutes to clear the section and even if you were generous with the single line reoccupation you can still get trains down it. Its the AB of Worcester thats the problem.

 

[Class172]

Its the AB of Worcester thats the problem.

Surely the layout of the triangle also and not just the absolute block?

Are you able to suggest any reasons why 2tph to New St. has only been made as an optional commitment in the ITT (mentioned in my earlier post)? I could easily understand any of your points normally but the fact the line enjoys these frequencies at peak times seems to prove they aren't a problem, or have I missed something trivial?

 

[moggie]

How many trains are you expecting along the single line section for something to be done? Its 6 minutes to clear the section and even if you were generous with the single line reoccupation you can still get trains down it. Its the AB of Worcester thats the problem.

As I recall the WM ITT says something along the lines that an increased (ideally 30 min off peak) frequency between Hereford and Birmingham via Bromsgrove requires the bidder to suggest innovative solutions as increasing the frequency from the present hourly is problematic due to capacity constraints caused by freight traffic - REALLY? Precisely how many freight paths are provided between Worcester and Kings Norton that prevents immediate specification of this increase because from what one sees there's not very many.

Of course, at the same time absolutely no mention is made of the 400% increase in services from Bromsgrove, many which will depart virtually empty.

The problem quite simply is overcrowding caused by a failure of the DfT, the TOC and Network Rail to keep up with the demand from South Worcestershire. This is hardly a new problem. it's been going on for years. Bromsgrove station short platforms was the running excuse for inaction previously. Now it's lack of rolling stock and freight trains. Yet when they have the chance to actually plan to put this right it appears the world ends at Bromsgrove. It doesn't as pointed out above. Most Birmingham bound trains arrive at Bromsgrove already full and standing (off peak). If it's a 2 car it's all trains are full.

I agree it takes 6 mins to clear the block between Droitwich and Worcester Tunnel Jcn. 10 paths / hout taken up by the current 1 x Hereford. 2 x Worcester / Malvern leaves 7 paths for the freight, empties and track recording. Sorry, but when 1 more train / hour of a decent length requires 'industry innovation' to resolve I and more importantly the hordes from south of Bromsgrove think NR and the DfT are just not trying hard enough.

Oh, and the local MP is as useful as a chocolate teapot (unlike the mouthpiece from Bromsgrove who at least got his finger out for his constituents).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A decision to extend electrification to Worcester would sort it out.
That would probably come with one to electrify on to Bristol.

There were/are plans to resignal the area and move to WMSC, but they keep on slipping.
I think the next priority is to resignal and transfer the Birmingham New St area, which will complete the core routes in the West Midlands.
Meanwhile, Worcester (and Shrewsbury) soldier on with their semaphores.

 

[The Planner]

Worcester Shrub Hill to Worcester Tunnel Jn is absolute block, Tunnel Jn to Droitwich is absolute block. Droitwich to Stoke Works is timed as absolute block even if it is TCB. Because of all this it is the running times of the trains that cause the problems. It may take a passenger train 6 minutes to get from Tunnel Jn to Droitwich but you cannot send another train down until two minutes after its arrival (based on the tail lamp camera, it would be worse without it), so it is 8 minutes before another train can come from Tunnel Jn. Freight is around 9 minutes to clear the section so its 11 before you can send another. That doesn't leave you 10 paths an hour. The same applies for Droitwich to Stoke Works but without the 2 minute allowance for signaller duties for AB.

So simple back of a fag packet planning with a standard freight train per hour towards Stoke Works, which is what a FOC would expect, then from Worcester Tunnel Jn to Droitwich you could have xx.00 p, xx.08 f, xx.19 p, xx.27 p, xx.35 p, xx.43 p, xx.51 p, which is 7tph ignoring anything else such as conflicts at Droitwich and anything for robustness.

If we are generous and add a second freight (eg: one for Round Oak, another for Kings Norton) you could assume xx.00 p, xx.08 f, xx.19 p, xx.27 p, xx.35 f, xx.46 p, you would then struggle as an xx.54 wouldn't allow a standard hourly pattern. That gives you 6tph only 4 of which are passenger.

The "innovation" could well just be adding an IB like there is on the up or some line speed improvements, but again none of the above is detailed and takes account of what happens around it.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Worcester Shrub Hill to Worcester Tunnel Jn is absolute block, Tunnel Jn to Droitwich is absolute block. Droitwich to Stoke Works is timed as absolute block even if it is TCB. Because of all this it is the running times of the trains that cause the problems. It may take a passenger train 6 minutes to get from Tunnel Jn to Droitwich but you cannot send another train down until two minutes after its arrival (based on the tail lamp camera, it would be worse without it), so it is 8 minutes before another train can come from Tunnel Jn. Freight is around 9 minutes to clear the section so its 11 before you can send another. That doesn't leave you 10 paths an hour. The same applies for Droitwich to Stoke Works but without the 2 minute allowance for signaller duties for AB.

So simple back of a fag packet planning with a standard freight train per hour towards Stoke Works, which is what a FOC would expect, then from Worcester Tunnel Jn to Droitwich you could have xx.00 p, xx.08 f, xx.19 p, xx.27 p, xx.35 p, xx.43 p, xx.51 p, which is 7tph ignoring anything else such as conflicts at Droitwich and anything for robustness.

If we are generous and add a second freight (eg: one for Round Oak, another for Kings Norton) you could assume xx.00 p, xx.08 f, xx.19 p, xx.27 p, xx.35 f, xx.46 p, you would then struggle as an xx.54 wouldn't allow a standard hourly pattern. That gives you 6tph only 4 of which are passenger.

The "innovation" could well just be adding an IB like there is on the up or some line speed improvements, but again none of the above is detailed and takes account of what happens around it.

The IB on the up and the tail lamp camera/outer home signal on the down were put in at the same time, so one presumes an IB on the down was "to hard".
Until that section is upgraded to TCB with decent headways along with the re-instatement of Rainbow Hill Junction Worcester will always be a mess IMHO.

 

[Class 170101]

I assume it takes longer for trains to travel to Birmingham compared to the from Birmingham - Lickey?

 

[Class172]

I assume it takes longer for trains to travel to Birmingham compared to the from Birmingham - Lickey?

I don't know any figures (I expect The Planner will probably know them), but I think there's around a 20min time penalty between Droitwich and Birmingham from going via Stourbridge and Smethwick Rolfe Street. This penalty is probably nearer 40mins for the XC trains that divert at Abottswood Junction.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The other question to be asked is why should Worcester get investment over other areas of the country? It is fighting for investment with many areas with similar set ups and the same need for improvements....

 

[Harbornite]

I assume it takes longer for trains to travel to Birmingham compared to the from Birmingham - Lickey?

Yes. In addition to the local services (albeit running on a reduced frequency) and usual freights, there's XC, LM and freight diverts with no four track sections.

 

[deltic08]

The other question to be asked is why should Worcester get investment over other areas of the country? It is fighting for investment with many areas with similar set ups and the same need for improvements....

The question is, with semaphore signalling still present, why is Worcester behind in modernisation investment. What other city of this size and this amount of traffic still has absolute block signalling? It should have had MAS signalling in the 1960s controlled from Gloucester. Let us hope it is converted as part of the new West Midland Centre asap.

 

[The Planner]

Worcester will soldier on for a good while yet, we cannot afford to resignal it. It will probably be the last thing to be shoe horned into the WMSCC as its nearly full.

 

[Harbornite]

The question is, with semaphore signalling still present, why is Worcester behind in modernisation investment. What other city of this size and this amount of traffic still has absolute block signalling? It should have had MAS signalling in the 1960s controlled from Gloucester. Let us hope it is converted as part of the new West Midland Centre asap.

Shrewsbury and Hereford. They lag behind Worcester in population but are both fairly large settlements with large stations that are signalled by semaphores.

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a good set of pics on flickr here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/30100300583/in/photostream/

...showing amongst other things all the track realignment taking place at the moment.

In particular the photo I've linked to directly, taken yesterday, shows how the down main through platform 4 gets the fast alignment south of the station, with the platform 3 line and the entry to the down loop clearly being the diverging routes.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The question is, with semaphore signalling still present, why is Worcester behind in modernisation investment. What other city of this size and this amount of traffic still has absolute block signalling? It should have had MAS signalling in the 1960s controlled from Gloucester. Let us hope it is converted as part of the new West Midland Centre asap.

Shrewsbury, Stockport (far more traffic) and Blackpool (soon to be upgraded).
Blackpool is going because of electrification.
Shrewsbury, like Worcester, has nothing in the offing to kick off an upgrade.
Stockport (5 AB boxes) was a bungled WCRM project which is still incomplete.