Delay Repay - Barrier Swallowed My Ticket

[gray1404]

I stand by my comments there the OP was not treated in a good way. The OP said on arrival at Glasgow Central the barrier swallowed their ticket, and the staff refused to get it back for them, saying that they should have asked to be let through beforehand. This is not helpful in the slightest and could easily put a customer in a situation whereby they are unable to claim delay repay.

I accept that other members of the forum may have a different view, that perhaps they would not complaint, I personally (and others) would. However, we can as gentleman respectfully agree to differ.

I would personally make the train company aware of what happened in the hope of both getting compensation and the behavior being corrected in the hope that in future this doesn't reoccur.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When tickets get kept by a barrier, do they just drop into a very large tub or does it group them together in any way?

 

[najaB]

When tickets get kept by a barrier, do they just drop into a very large tub or does it group them together in any way?

Drop into a tub from what I've seen. Though, as pointed out above they don't necessarily drop immediately.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The OP said on arrival at Glasgow Central the barrier swallowed their ticket, and the staff refused to get it back for them, saying that they should have asked to be let through beforehand. This is not helpful in the slightest and could easily put a customer in a situation whereby they are unable to claim delay repay.

The thing is, if you need to keep your ticket, you don't put it in any barriers. The OP may not have known this, but now they do.

From experience, Scotrail should pay out based on an email and booking confirmation.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, I agree with you. If you want to keep the ticket then don't put it into the barrier. Although I accept that many people don't know that. It doesn't help that some barriers retain your ticket and others don't. Personally, I do not think that barriers should retain any ticket in my view - it would avoid situations such as this. At least, they should never be retained if a customer is only mid way though their journey.

 

[323235]

exactly

there is a difference between 'allowing the passenger to retain the ticket ' ( i.e. letting them through a manual gate / using staff id badge to activate the barrier ) and taking the barrier apart and fishing through the retained stubs bin ..

anyone with gate line experience tell us how long it takes to
- block a ticket barrier to allow access to fiddle
-, open the barrier casing
- retrieve the container and replace it
and restart the barrier ?

never mind how long it would take to retreive the correct ticket ...

based on how long it takes to change the roll on reciept printers / label printers it;s going to be a couple of minutes assuming it;s designed to allow this to be done easily ... plus the time to 'close' that line and then reopen it

Took no more than 30 seconds if that when it happened to me not so long ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree that the TOC has to let you keep your ticket. I'm less convinced that they *must* go fish it out of a barrier after you've put it in.

Then in that case they must be required to let a passenger claim delay repay without the ticket which has been swallowed by a barrier

 

[infobleep]

exactly

there is a difference between 'allowing the passenger to retain the ticket ' ( i.e. letting them through a manual gate / using staff id badge to activate the barrier ) and taking the barrier apart and fishing through the retained stubs bin ..

anyone with gate line experience tell us how long it takes to
- block a ticket barrier to allow access to fiddle
-, open the barrier casing
- retrieve the container and replace it
and restart the barrier ?

never mind how long it would take to retreive the correct ticket ...

based on how long it takes to change the roll on reciept printers / label printers it;s going to be a couple of minutes assuming it;s designed to allow this to be done easily ... plus the time to 'close' that line and then reopen it

I once has a ticket barrier at Euston keep my season ticket. It was only a monthly season ticket but still. Staff helpfully got it out for me but looked surprised they needed to do such a thing.

Would have been rather awkward if they had refused to retrieve it, as I hadn't completed my days travelling yet, not to mention all the other days validity left on the season ticket.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[323235]

I agree with this advice:
It's unfortunate that you hadn't known, or remembered, that the barrier would be likely to retain the ticket.

Should passenger now be required to make a note of every barrier's behavior in case they happen to have a delay to ensure they hold onto the ticket and it doesn't get inadvertently eaten?

It seems regretful to suggest that the passenger is at fault. I would hope that in these situations that barrier staff would be trained to calmly explain if they are unable to retrieve a ticket to a passengers that they can still claim with a booking reference if such a system does exist in unfortunate circumstances such as these. After all passengers are only human and often could be thinking about a million and one different things whilst travelling.

 

[infobleep]

Should passenger now be required to make a note of every barrier's behavior in case they happen to have a delay to ensure they hold onto the ticket and it doesn't get inadvertently eaten?

It seems regretful to suggest that the passenger is at fault. I would hope that in these situations that barrier staff would be trained to calmly explain if they are unable to retrieve a ticket to a passengers that they can still claim with a booking reference if such a system does exist in unfortunate circumstances such as these. After all passengers are only human and often could be thinking about a million and one different things whilst travelling.

Surely the passenger should only be thinking about the matter in hand. I admit that isn't always easy to do.

Of course some tickets might get retained at one barrier whilst other don't. So I suppose, taking it to its logical conclusion, a passenger could learn every combination for every station to station and rail pass type just to be safe. Might also need to learn machine issuing variations as that might affect all of this too.

Alternatively perhaps an app could tell passengers whether their ticket is likely to be retained or not. They could consult the app just before putting the ticket through or not putting it through if the app says best not.

These are far fetched ideas of course unworkable.

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[gray1404]

And keep in mind that some customers may not have a booking reference. They could have paid cash for their ticket on the train, at a TVM or at a booking office. As such the ticket is their only proof of travel.

As soon as I realise my journey is or might be disrupted now, I take a phone of the ticket using my phone (if I have it). Even then though a TOC can insist that you send them to actual ticket before they process your claim. I have never heard of this being insisted on however.

I did have an outward ticket retained once and was able to claim using the return portion (along with a brief explanation - but I guess this did require some reasonable understanding on the part of the TOC) but if one is using a single ticket then they could be buggered.

(I do think though if large numbers of customers started all asking for their tickets back TOCs might start ensuring that the dates do not retain them.)

 

[yorkie]

I would make a delay repay claim (enclosing any applicable evidence, as appropriate), explaining what happened. Let us know how you get on.

Should passenger now be required to make a note of every barrier's behavior in case they happen to have a delay to ensure they hold onto the ticket and it doesn't get inadvertently eaten?

Quite! You are quite right to challenge it.

A passenger who usually travels, say, York to Newcastle, York to London, etc would not have any reason to suspect the gateline at somewhere like Glasgow Central would retain their ticket.

 

[duncanp]

I have submitted a complaint to Scotrail, and I will let everyone know if a receive a reply.

I am sure that they will think of an excuse to avoid paying out.

 

[KTHV]

Surely the passenger should only be thinking about the matter in hand. I admit that isn't always easy to do.

Of course some tickets might get retained at one barrier whilst other don't. So I suppose, taking it to its logical conclusion, a passenger could learn every combination for every station to station and rail pass type just to be safe. Might also need to learn machine issuing variations as that might affect all of this too.

Alternatively perhaps an app could tell passengers whether their ticket is likely to be retained or not. They could consult the app just before putting the ticket through or not putting it through if the app says best not.

These are far fetched ideas of course unworkable.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I have noticed at some stations (Stoke I think is one) there actually is a sign next to the barriers stating that tickets will be retained by the barriers.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have submitted a complaint to Scotrail, and I will let everyone know if a receive a reply.

I am sure that they will think of an excuse to avoid paying out.

Scotrail aren't so bad.

I think you are right to complain. On balance, yes, it's a silly thing to put the ticket in the barrier, but the lack of help and short shrift given weren't okay.

I recall using London City Airport a few years back, and was not used to the "tag your own bag then drop it off" system. My fault - there were signs there. Instead of being told I had done everything wrong, and tough tit, I was shown how it worked. It took a few minutes of a busy staff member's time, but it's basic customer care.

 

[infobleep]

I have noticed at some stations (Stoke I think is one) there actually is a sign next to the barriers stating that tickets will be retained by the barriers.

Well I hope it explains that some of the octets will be retained. I wouldn't like a season ticket with 11 months remaining to be retained!

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[najaB]

At least, they should never be retained if a customer is only mid way though their journey.

Only a badly-programmed barrier will do this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only a badly-programmed barrier will do this.

Indeed.

No barrier should retain any ticket unless it is at the destination on the ticket. Simple.

 

[Clip]

Indeed.

No barrier should retain any ticket unless it is at the destination on the ticket. Simple.

Which is what happened to the OP is it not?

 

[greaterwest]

I once has a ticket barrier at Euston keep my season ticket. It was only a monthly season ticket but still. Staff helpfully got it out for me but looked surprised they needed to do such a thing.

Would have been rather awkward if they had refused to retrieve it, as I hadn't completed my days travelling yet, not to mention all the other days validity left on the season ticket.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

A barrier retaining any season ticket is a faulty barrier and the machine in question most likely went out of service and had to be restarted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

exactly

there is a difference between 'allowing the passenger to retain the ticket ' ( i.e. letting them through a manual gate / using staff id badge to activate the barrier ) and taking the barrier apart and fishing through the retained stubs bin ..

anyone with gate line experience tell us how long it takes to
- block a ticket barrier to allow access to fiddle
-, open the barrier casing
- retrieve the container and replace it
and restart the barrier ?

never mind how long it would take to retreive the correct ticket ...

based on how long it takes to change the roll on reciept printers / label printers it;s going to be a couple of minutes assuming it;s designed to allow this to be done easily ... plus the time to 'close' that line and then reopen it

The barrier does not need to be restarted to access the ticket bin, it simply opens up. Older barriers (the large metal ones on the SWT metwork, they are ex LU) queue the last 20 or so tickets they retain, however the newer ones with plastic casings on the top (as seen at Euston and Waterloo) drop retained tickets straight into a bin at the bottom.

As has already been said, it'a finding the correct ticket which is the most time consuming, especially with the newer barriers. If it were me, I'd ask the person to wait until it quiets down before blocking any barrier to retrieve a ticket.

 

[Astradyne]

I agree that the TOC has to let you keep your ticket. I'm less convinced that they *must* go fish it out of a barrier after you've put it in.

In that case then barriers should not retain the tickets. Serious flaw in the process here.

 

[najaB]

In that case then barriers should not retain the tickets. Serious flaw in the process here.

I'm not seeing the flaw. The vast majority of people have no further need for their ticket and retaining them prevents people using the return portion of a period return (or the out portion of an Anytime return for that matter) as a pseudo season ticket. If you need to keep your ticket, don't put it in the barrier.

 

[JimmyR]

If you're looking for comp I wouldn't recommend putting a staff complaint in at the same time.

You will never get a goodwill gesture for a staff complaint and issuing comp without the ticket is considered a goodwill gesture. Although you can consider them separate matters it's blurring the line a bit and the advisor may be reluctant to issue anything.

Just a note: You can submit claims online with a photograph of your (defaced) ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just a note: You can submit claims online with a photograph of your (defaced) ticket.

Interestingly ScotRail require you to deface it (e.g. tear in half) if submitting a photograph - not come across that with any other TOC.

 

[bb21]

Interestingly ScotRail require you to deface it (e.g. tear in half) if submitting a photograph - not come across that with any other TOC.

Yes, some TOCs require walk-on tickets to be cut in half before a picture is taken, mainly for fraud prevention.

But that is for another thread. Let's try and stay close to the core issue in this thread.

 

[Flying Snail]

If you need to keep your ticket, don't put it in the barrier.

Can you point to ANY official notification telling passengers this vital piece of information?

Unless the requirement to not use ticket barriers if you wish to retain ANY ticket is clearly communicated to passengers your argument is nonsense. Of course if that fact was made public then the basic operation of ticket barriers would have to be called into question as they are obviously not fit for purpose.

The sad thing is that with a small modification the barriers could be far more effective at combating ticket misuse, a method employed by other rail operators for generations yet the UK industry just carry on installing ineffective barriers across the network.

 

[najaB]

Can you point to ANY official notification telling passengers this vital piece of information?

Oh, sorry. I forgot that people are, apparently, incapable of thinking for themselves any more.

 

[CheesyChips]

Oh, sorry. I forgot that people are, apparently, incapable of thinking for themselves any more.

One can only think for oneself when given the appropriate information. There's a slot for returning a ticket on top of the barrier and people with seasons or those not at their final destination will have their ticket returned.

With that known to me in the queue for the barrier, it would be fair to assume that my ticket will be returned to me.

TOCs are surprisingly quick to become informative when revenue protection is at stake.

 

[Astradyne]

I'm not seeing the flaw. The vast majority of people have no further need for their ticket and retaining them prevents people using the return portion of a period return (or the out portion of an Anytime return for that matter) as a pseudo season ticket. If you need to keep your ticket, don't put it in the barrier.

Where is this explained to passengers? Is the everyday average user likely to know their ticket will be retained if they put it in the barrier at the final destination.

Just because you know the process, does not mean everyone does.

Large notices need to be put up at gate lines if this is the case.

 

[najaB]

Large notices need to be put up at gate lines if this is the case.

No they don't. We need to stop treating people like idiots. If I know that I need to keep my ticket, I'm not going to put it anywhere near a barrier and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Besides, we already have empirical evidence that notices don't make a blind bit of difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, we need to stop assuming people understand the railway's esoteric and confusing policies, and make them simpler and always, always clearly signed.

 

[najaB]

No, we need to stop assuming people understand the railway's esoteric and confusing policies, and make them simpler and always, always clearly signed.

I agree that some things are complex and confusing. But if I need to keep my ticket and I'm not sure about using the railway then I'm going to speak to the person at the barrier line rather than put it in a machine. That's not complex.

Especially in somewhere like Glasgow Central where there's pretty much always someone around to ask.