GEML franchise 2016

[Wivenswold]

I think there's greater danger of issues with the Aventra to be honest. Stadler are highly rated and the UK Flirt is an adaption of a tried and tested product. Abellio already have Flirts in the European fleet.

The Aventra is new and has yet to be tested on the network. If the Crossrail units get delayed by teething issues the AGA build will be delayed.

Anyone who remembers the painful introduction of the Aventra's predecessor, the Electrostar, on C2C in 1999 will be worried. Canteen rumour at the time was that withdrawn 302s and 310s were stored on Shoeburyness Army base so that they could be dusted off if the 357s had to be withdrawn en-masse.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm not entirely sure you can blame the TOC for the refurbishment programme being flawed, it is the company refurbishing the stock's responsibility to ensure that the specification is achievable, and to implement it. Abellio taking the decision to return the first unit as unsatisfactory rather than letting it cause chaos sounds like the right move.

I'm less concerned about the Aventra than I am the FliRT units as Abellio's will not be the first Aventra order - whilst a slower, metro-oriented version, both LO and the Elizabeth line will have large proportions of their fleets in service before the first East Anglia units are supposed to be introduced. The most likely routes to suffer the c2c problem are TfL.

 

[HH]

Would coincide with the interior refresh, which can also add years to the life of the unit, potentially.

Potentially. Moving the doors could also lessen the life of the body shell. And none of it might be a good investment.

The ROSCO needs to decide is what refurb, if any, will most likely extend the life of its stock. That's very much a whole market decision.

 

[Wivenswold]

While we await further details on the Aventras, I've done a little more homework. Admittedly it's done based on the current timetable but it's still representative of the service needed on the GEML.

As rightly pointed out on this thread, there are 26 12 car diagrams into Liverpool Street at present. Of that figure 22 are 12 car from the start of their journeys. 3 have an additional unit added en-route and 1 comes from Colchester Town as a 12 car.

None appear to arrive early enough in London (0738 from Clacton is the first) to do another Up Road 12 coacher.

So it seems clear that there won't be enough full length Aventras to satisfy current demand and some current 12 coach trains will be 2 x 5 car trains. Now the increased capacity on Norwich Intercity trains will mitigate some of that, and it could be that 2 x 5 car Aventras will only have a slightly lower capacity than 3 x 321 units.

The Ipswich 12 car could also be replaced by 3 x 4 car Flirts (Lowestoft starters maybe) but this really isn't seeming like the huge upgrade in capacity that it first looked like.

 

[Spod]

How will the increases in frequency, for example Southend Vic going from 3 to 4 TPH, impact the proportion of (currently 12 car) peak services that can be run by 10 car trains vs. 2x5 or even 1x5? Is it irrelevant because peak services far outstrip the improved minimum frequency already and won't be changing much?

 

[jopsuk]

I wonder what Options are in the contracts- potential fleet expansions that can be activated rather than go through full procurement

 

[Wivenswold]

I wonder what Options are in the contracts- potential fleet expansions that can be activated rather than go through full procurement

Interesting point. Let's hope there is some flexibility.

I had an email from the senior contacts office at AGA. It would appear that much of the detail of the bid was kept away from AGA management. His wording suggested that Abellio's bid team had decided on the number and type of trains and it was now for AGA to work out how to fit them into a new timetable.

I'd like to think that a lot of work went into the number of units needed rather than working out how many "additional seats to London" they could get from the fleet they can afford to hire.

 

[HH]

There are still a lot of 8-cars into London in the peak; if all trains become 10-car Aventras it may well be that there are additional seats, especially if the better characteristics mean you can fit in extra trains.

 

[lordbusiness]

There are still a lot of 8-cars into London in the peak; if all trains become 10-car Aventras it may well be that there are additional seats, especially if the better characteristics mean you can fit in extra trains.

People Munchers- Standard only, minimum toilet facilities, high density seating.

 

[TheEdge]

People Munchers- Standard only, minimum toilet facilities, high density seating.

And? They are not long distance units, absolute maximum journey time is 2 hours.

At a most basic level the GEML needs more seats and the only practical way of doing that is getting more seats on each train.

 

[Wivenswold]

I'll be happier with higher density airline seating with 4 across than the 5 across arrangement on 321/360s now.

They could be really innovative and have a couple of mainly standing coaches with stools along the side and a ledge to stick your laptop on. Some people just want to be able to get on a train and check their emails, especially at the last few stops before London. Cafe Class?

 

[LAX54]

Tomorrow (16th) is the first day of the 'new' Franchise, and Monday is 'Launch' day, with VIP's (Managers?) travelling on a few services.

 

[grumblingalong]

Tomorrow (16th) is the first day of the 'new' Franchise, and Monday is 'Launch' day, with VIP's (Managers?) travelling on a few services.

Staff have their new ties and lanyards at the ready

 

[LAX54]

Staff have their new ties and lanyards at the ready

Hope someone provides the Donuts and Sausage Rolls for the PSB at Colchester

 

[grumblingalong]

Hope someone provides the Donuts and Sausage Rolls for the PSB at Colchester

I will oblige if you provide 100% Intercity performance for the day

 

[iphone76]

I've just picked up an updated Customer Report booklet from Rayleigh Station. It mentions faster trains to/from London. I knew about Norwich in 90, etc. but it also mentions Southend in 46 minutes. I wonder how that'll be achieved.

 

[DasLunatic]

I've just picked up an updated Customer Report booklet from Rayleigh Station. It mentions faster trains to/from London. I knew about Norwich in 90, etc. but it also mentions Southend in 46 minutes. I wonder how that'll be achieved.

The 321s take a while to get to a decent speed - logic dictates that this'll be done through the Aventra's faster acceleration.

 

[iphone76]

The 321s take a while to get to a decent speed - logic dictates that this'll be done through the Aventra's faster acceleration.

Makes sense - I wonder whether they will skip some stops on the Southend branch as well?

 

[Class 170101]

46 minutes to Southend seems quite a challenge considering journey times today are around 58 to 64 minutes and the GEML between London and Shenfield is set to become even more crowded than it is today.

 

[iphone76]

46 minutes to Southend seems quite a challenge considering journey times today are around 58 to 64 minutes and the GEML between London and Shenfield is set to become even more crowded than it is today.

That's what I thought. Perhaps they will run a few express trains during the day to have a headline figure of 46 minutes and the rest will run as present.

 

[dk1]

That's what I thought. Perhaps they will run a few express trains during the day to have a headline figure of 46 minutes and the rest will run as present.

Back in the day I seem to recall that the Southend Vics departed Liverpool St at 20, 25 & 45 past the hour with a Southminster doing the honours with the balancing 05 past the hour to give a 20min service as far as Wickford. The xx.20 was a fast service which ran non-stop to Billericay. The rest I'm sure called Stratford, Romford then all stations hence the track layouts at Gidea Park & Shenfield, the latter now being altered again to suit Crossrail too.

 

[306024]

Back in the day I seem to recall that the Southend Vics departed Liverpool St at 20, 25 & 45 past the hour with a Southminster doing the honours with the balancing 05 past the hour to give a 20min service as far as Wickford. The xx.20 was a fast service which ran non-stop to Billericay. The rest I'm sure called Stratford, Romford then all stations hence the track layouts at Gidea Park & Shenfield, the latter now being altered again to suit Crossrail too.

Were they Stratford, Ilford, Romford then all? Before the 10 minute Shenfield metro is seems amazing all we had was a 20 minute all stations Gidea Park service. I'd need to see a timetable to recall the fast Southend journey time.

 

[dk1]

Were they Stratford, Ilford, Romford then all? Before the 10 minute Shenfield metro is seems amazing all we had was a 20 minute all stations Gidea Park service. I'd need to see a timetable to recall the fast Southend journey time.

Yes I think Ilford was in there too. As you say just a 20min Gidea Park on the Metro & 4-cars at that. How busy the route is today & I hear that revenue is already up 27% since TfL took over & brought in better ticket checks.

 

[Class 170101]

I reckon patronage has increased as well. Though by how much I don't know thye just seem even busier now than they were under Greater Anglia.

 

[adrock1976]

To save me wading through a very lengthy thread, could somebody be kind enough to say which of the Anglia fleet will be withdrawn first?

 

[grumblingalong]

To save me wading through a very lengthy thread, could somebody be kind enough to say which of the Anglia fleet will be withdrawn first?

Locals look like they're going first (153/156/170/37) followed by the intercities and Stansted expresses (90mk3/379) leaving 321s and 360 the last to be replaced as bombardier has a bigger order book.

 

[adrock1976]

Thanks very much.

This gives me a better chance to clear the electric fleet before they are withdrawn.

For information, I only require 8 of the diesel fleet for haulage, including the Class 170 that was recently damaged (was it 170204?).

 

[AM9]

Were they Stratford, Ilford, Romford then all? Before the 10 minute Shenfield metro is seems amazing all we had was a 20 minute all stations Gidea Park service. I'd need to see a timetable to recall the fast Southend journey time.

My recollection of the '70s off-peak down services:
xx:05, :25 & :45, - Stratford, Ilford, Romford then all stops to Southend Vic.
xx:15, :35 & :55 all stops to Gidea Park terminating about xx:45, xx+1:05 & xx+1:25, at Gidea Park, i.e. just before the following Southend train.
The ex LST xx:45 arived at Shenfield at xx+1:21, providing the link to the xx:00 Clacton/Walton down service.
in the evening peak, there were 'fast Southend Vic. services every 10 minutes that were Billericay then all stops, followed by a slower train that stopped at Stratford then taking the fast line Gidea Park Junction then stopping at Harold Wodd and all stations to Southend. The fast trains were normally 3x4 cars hwereas the slows were 2x8 cars because of the Metro platforms.
Judging by the number of trains coming off the branch line passing Shenfield P1 and those stopping on P4 in the mornings, I imagine that the morning peak service was the mirror of the evening one.

 

[grumblingalong]

Thanks very much.

This gives me a better chance to clear the electric fleet before they are withdrawn.

For information, I only require 8 of the diesel fleet for haulage, including the Class 170 that was recently damaged (was it 170204?).

Aye currently at Brodie's in Kilmarnock getting patched up, due back April next year I think?

 

[DasLunatic]

Does anyone know what the new logo will look like yet?