GEML franchise 2016

[asylumxl]

I've more misgivings about the bi-modes: the whole idea of keeping a diesel engine in a cupboard* on one coach just seems odd to me. It seems like it's going backwards on the advantages of distributed traction.

For the electrics I've less concerns, but still some concern over short coaches with only one door, and how articulated stock will affect wear and tear on the track.


*I realize it's not just a cupboard, I'm just being facetious.

The traction is still distributed. Depending on whether there are one or two engines, there may be redundancy issues as two or more would be best.

As far the one door per side, it worked for the 373 and 374 trains.

 

[Wivenswold]

I like the UK Flirt design, no yellow fronts either. 12 sets of double doors should be fine. Getting in and out of them compared to the Mark 3s should be easier.

 

[jayiscupid]

I'm really not a fan of the whole FLIRT concept. I hope no one else buys these.

Considering Stadtler have just sold their 1000th Flirt in 12 years of production I think they know what they're doing.

 

[Alfie1014]

During this interview (about 2m 0s in) with Railway Gazette Int the CEO of Stadler confirms that the deal for the Abellio East Anglia trains will be signed in London next week.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/ec250-high-speed-emu-presented-to-sbb.html

 

[class387]

Looks like their FLIRT200 from their website, this angle does it no justice.

Yes, here's the FLIRT200 for reference:

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/flirt200/

 

[jayiscupid]

Yes, here's the FLIRT200 for reference:

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/flirt200/

Which does look better than the previous image.
Considering they're running as 12 car sets I'd be hoping they'd have coupler covers which would really improve the front end design.

 

[AM9]

Which does look better than the previous image.
Considering they're running as 12 car sets I'd be hoping they'd have coupler covers which would really improve the front end design.

Are there any other 100mph services where the trains run with fully fitted cosmetic covers over couplings?

 

[Class 170101]

As far the one door per side, it worked for the 373 and 374 trains.

But you aren't looking at quick access and egress on those trains unlike the services the new Stadlers will operate.

 

[dosxuk]

A new impression of the UK Flirt at Innotrans:

http://i0.wp.com/railcolornews.com/wp-content/uploads/image-8.jpeg

(picture by Railcolor: http://railcolornews.com/2016/09/19/innotrans-2016/)

Is there some sort of industry competition going on with a prize for whoever can successfully sell the ugliest design? I'm really hoping it's not another Crossrail where the real thing is even worse looking than the artist's impressions.

 

[jayiscupid]

Are there any other 100mph services where the trains run with fully fitted cosmetic covers over couplings?

No, I suppose not.

 

[asylumxl]

But you aren't looking at quick access and egress on those trains unlike the services the new Stadlers will operate.

But they're also double width doors rather than single width. This will help matters. In reality, the speed of egress will probably be similar to current end door stock.

 

[plcd1]

Looks like Siemens and Abellio have "done a deal" thus allowing the Bombardier rolling stock deal to be signed off.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/largest-rolling-stock-deal-since-privatisation-is-signed.html

UK: A contract for leasing company Angel Trains and Commonwealth Bank of Australia to finance a £900m order for 665 Bombardier Transportation electric multiple-unit cars for use on Abellio’s new East Anglia franchise was signed on September 29.

Angel Trains said the ‘largest rolling stock deal since the privatisation of UK rail’ builds on its ongoing relationship with CBA and ‘further establishes the bank’s credentials in the rail industry’.

The deal covers 22 10-car and 89 five-car suburban EMUs which are to be built at Bombardier’s Derby plant, providing a ‘stable long-term workload’ for more than 1 600 employees.

The Department for Transport had named Abellio as the winner of the franchise on August 10, but the signing of the rolling stock deal was held up when Siemens announced a legal challenge to the order. Abellio told Railway Gazette ‘the parties have agreed to confidentially conclude their dispute’, and Siemens and Abellio are ‘now looking to the future with a strong and positive relationship’.

Abellio expects that a separate contract for the financing of 378 Stadler multiple-units cars will be signed imminently.

‘We are pleased to have finalised the agreement with our financier Angel Trains that is part of the largest-ever privately-procured train order in the UK’, said Dominic Booth, Managing Director of Abellio UK. ‘It will give the people of East Anglia high quality trains as part of an ambitious transformation of the region’s railway. ’

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like Siemens are involved with Abellio in the rolling stock bids for the new West Midlands franchise.
They wouldn't want a long-running dispute over the EA fleet to get in the way of that.

 

[Class 170101]

Looks like Siemens are involved with Abellio in the rolling stock bids for the new West Midlands franchise.
They wouldn't want a long-running dispute over the EA fleet to get in the way of that.

Could also be elsewhere in Europe?

 

[3141]

Angel Trains refers to "the largest rolling stock deal since the privatisation of UK rail".

But only just. The original class 450 order was for 110 units = 440, and 44 class 444 units = 220 making a total of 660.

There was also an order for 120 Desiros that would have been 24x5-car class 450/2, and instead became 30x 4 car class 350/1. If that was made at the same time, maybe the Desiro order was the biggest.

 

[SPADTrap]

Angel Trains refers to "the largest rolling stock deal since the privatisation of UK rail".

But only just. The original class 450 order was for 110 units = 440, and 44 class 444 units = 220 making a total of 660.

There was also an order for 120 Desiros that would have been 24x5-car class 450/2, and instead became 30x 4 car class 350/1. If that was made at the same time, maybe the Desiro order was the biggest.

But it wasnt?

 

[AM9]

Angel Trains refers to "the largest rolling stock deal since the privatisation of UK rail".

But only just. The original class 450 order was for 110 units = 440, and 44 class 444 units = 220 making a total of 660.

There was also an order for 120 Desiros that would have been 24x5-car class 450/2, and instead became 30x 4 car class 350/1. If that was made at the same time, maybe the Desiro order was the biggest.

So how is that bigger than a single order for 55x12 car and 60x8 car Desiro Citys making a total of 1140 cars for Thameslink?

 

[J-2739]

So how is that bigger than a single order for 55x12 car and 60x8 car Desiro Citys making a total of 1140 cars for Thameslink?

Probably on about individual units.

 

[AM9]

Probably on about individual units.

Well that's still nowhere near the number opf class700 cars, which like the 5-car and 10-car units for the GEML, are all the same, indeed the cars are all interchangeable and of the same length. It's just Angel's untrue sales claim.

 

[asylumxl]

Contract has been signed and details confirmed:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-east-anglia-order-for-stadler-trainsets.html

Pension funds back Abellio East Anglia order for Stadler trainsets

05 Oct 2016

UK: Contracts worth more than £600m for Stadler to supply 378 multiple-unit cars for the next East Anglia franchise were signed by Abellio UK and leasing company Rock Rail on October 5.

In conjunction with a £900m order for 665 Bombardier EMU cars which was signed with Angel Trains on September 30, this finalises what Abellio UK Managing Director Dominic Booth said was ‘the largest-ever privately-funded train procurement in the UK’. The 1*043 vehicles are scheduled to enter service between spring 2019 and autumn 2020, completely replacing the fleet used under the current Greater Anglia franchise.

Stadler’s first major order for UK main line passenger rolling stock covers 58 Flirt UK trainsets to be built in Switzerland. There will be 10 12-car 25*kV 50 Hz inter-city EMUs for London – Norwich services with 628 standard and 80 first class seats plus a bistro, and*10 12-car EMUs for the London – Stansted Airport route with 710 standard class only seats. The*24 four-car and 14 three-car electro-diesel units for standard class only*regional services will have the diesel engines in a mid-train*power module car.

The 160 km/h*air-conditioned articulated*multiple-units will have a floor height of 960 mm,*2+2 seating, wi-fi, power points, real-time passenger information and regenerative braking.

Funding is being led by Rock Rail and SL Capital Partners, with additional co-investment equity provided by the GLIL infrastructure investment joint venture of the Greater Manchester Pension Fund and London Pensions Fund Authority. Debt was arranged by DC Advisory from Aviva, Sun Life, Barings Asset Management, Legal & General, Standard Life Investments and the European Investment Bank, which is providing a 28-year £60m loan using its European Fund for Strategic Investments guarantee for the first time in the UK. *Legal advice for the two rolling stock orders was provided by Bond Dickinson.

‘We are delighted to close our second rolling stock financing, especially in what have been volatile markets post-Brexit’, said Rock Rail founding partner Mark Swindell, who added*he was ‘delighted to be able to work with new institutional investors, demonstrating that Rock Rail has become attractive to investors looking to invest in the UK’. He said ‘the highly-competitive long-term nature of funding provided by our blue chip institutional investors delivers best value for money to the East Anglia passengers and taxpayer over the life of the trains.’

Rock Rail entered the rail market with a £200m*deal to finance 25 six-car Siemens dual-voltage EMUs for Govia Thameslink Railway’s Moorgate route which was signed in February. It is now bidding to fund more rolling stock, as well as structuring an approach to funding stations, depots and assets managed by Network Rail.

Dominic Helmsley, head of SL Capital Infrastructure, said the Standard Life Investments subsidiary was ‘particularly excited’ to sign the Abellio deal, adding ‘we see significant further potential to provide competitive funding for new rolling stock across the UK rail network’.

 

[hwl]

Well that's still nowhere near the number opf class700 cars, which like the 5-car and 10-car units for the GEML, are all the same, indeed the cars are all interchangeable and of the same length. It's just Angel's untrue sales claim.

Angels claim was caveated about private not public sector ordered. 700s, 345s and 800s were DfT or TfL ordered. so when you discount those it just about stands up.

 

[jopsuk]

Interesting to note that the Norwich sets will have only two less seats than the Stansted ones. I'm guessing the Stansted sets will (sensibly) have lots of luggage space and perhaps more table seats?

 

[J-2739]

Ooh, a bistro.

 

[Wivenswold]

Standard Class only on the 4 car Stadlers would seem to rule out their use on London - Norwich services via Ipswich.

A likely scenario is that the 12 car Stadlers will get the big hitting Norwich to London peaks and an hourly express during the day, with Bistro service (whatever that is) and the 10 car Aventras will do the trains that are currently 12 car 321/360 and then fill in the gaps on the Norwich line between peaks. 8 car Great Eastern services being bolstered to 10 car shorter-length Aventras.

AGA will need to make sure any unrefurbished EMUs will be out of the way by December 2019 due to the DDI legislation. Which could be tight unless they're giving the Renatus treatment to more than 30 units. Could see 379s on the GEML for a while as there will be a lot of chopping and changing during the frantic replacement of units. Likewise refurbished 321s on WA.

Interesting times.

 

[MrPIC]

Be a lot of agg, GE don't sign 379 and WA don't sign 321, couple that with the traction training for the new aventras and stadlers, won't be any drivers left to actually drive the trains!

 

[jopsuk]

From Abellio's statements previously:

Upgraded trains: in the first year of the franchise 30 4-carriage electric trains will be refurbished to include air conditioning, WiFi and new seats. These will run from Southend, Braintree and Ipswich to London, providing much needed extra capacity. The remainder of the fleet will be refreshed at a cost of £10m, improving the passenger environment and reliability of the trains. 27 of the existing trains will also undergo modifications to become fully accessible to disabled customers.

Translation:

The Renatus project gets finished off and 27 317s get "bare minimum" toilet, door control and PIS work for 2020 compliance. 27, as it happens, would be the 317/5 plus the 317/1 fleet from GN.

 

[Wivenswold]

Be a lot of agg, GE don't sign 379 and WA don't sign 321, couple that with the traction training for the new aventras and stadlers, won't be any drivers left to actually drive the trains!

That is a shame. I was hoping for a repeat of the 1986-1988 period when guessing the next unit was worthwhile. I remember getting any of 302,307,308,309,310,312 or 315s from Chelmsford back then.

 

[grumblingalong]

The single doors, especially on regional units often with no allowance for dwell time in the current timetable, still concerns me.

 

[306024]

The single doors, especially on regional units often with no allowance for dwell time in the current timetable, still concerns me.

Well the timetable is a complete re-write so the opportunity is there for appropriate dwell times. Hopefully turnround times on the locals at Norwich in particular can be increased.

Just as intriguing is guage clearance, and given the door positions, stepping distances to the platform. Network Rail will be busy certifying this lot.

 

[grumblingalong]

Well the timetable is a complete re-write so the opportunity is there for appropriate dwell times. Hopefully turnround times on the locals at Norwich in particular can be increased.

Just as intriguing is guage clearance, and given the door positions, stepping distances to the platform. Network Rail will be busy certifying this lot.

Yeah I just don't see how it will all tie in with the improved journey times, the time loss when a 156 replaces a 170 on IPS-CBG runs is normally around 5 mins each way.

We shall see I'm sure.