Opinions On The Class 158

[TEW]

With regards the disabled bogs, r these compliant with 2020 rules or will they need changing?

They're not compliant as they currently are but the SWT, Scotrail and I believe GWR units which have been made compliant with the 2020 regulations retain the original toilet, just with minor changes to the internal fittings.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

185's would not be perfect for any role. Whatever the role there is a better alternative.

But not at an affordable price. The remit surrounding the design was for a fully air-conditioned train exclusively powered by diesel with both good hill-climbing ability and decent top speed. But also able to deal with significant passenger turnover without long station dwell times. The 185 is the necessary compromise needed to achieve all that.

185's are the worst riding DMU of any built since the early 1960's.

So they ride worse than Pacers do they?! Or 175s which still "twitch" in spite of attempts to improve them.

Overweight track damaging fuel guzzlers crawling along being unable to take advantage of Sprinter speed restriction relaxations. They're probably also the worst DMU ever in terms of ability to find seats enabling a reasonable view out .

Voyagers are much worse for these issues though I doubt that many actual passengers are actually bothered by such details.

 

[Grumpy]

But not at an affordable price. The remit surrounding the design was for a fully air-conditioned train exclusively powered by diesel with both good hill-climbing ability and decent top speed. But also able to deal with significant passenger turnover without long station dwell times. The 185 is the necessary compromise needed to achieve all that.

The Turbostars do all this and give a better ride, better view out, can benefit from Sprinter speed differentials and guzzle less fuel. The inference that the 185's were necessary to climb hills is a myth-Turbostars seem to cope ok with hills in Scotland and the Lickey for example.
It's significant that approx. 4 times as many Turbostars have been bought and that no other TOC was daft enough to buy the 185's.
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So they ride worse than Pacers do they?! Or 175s which still "twitch" in spite of attempts to improve them.

I'll give you the Pacers. I should have said bogied DMU. The 185's probably have a worse ride than the mark 1 class 123 DMU's.

I would suggest that the yawing of the 185's is considerably more disconcerting than anything the 175's can offer

 

[najaB]

The inference that the 185's were necessary to climb hills is a myth-Turbostars seem to cope ok with hills in Scotland...

I take it you haven't heard them on the climb from Inveness to Slochd.

 

[BestWestern]

Personally im not really a fan of 158s or 159s. The narrow doors at the ends or each coach (instead of wide doors at 1/3 and 2/3 positions) make them feel very unspacious and cramped. I prefer the 150s. Thought the SWT 158s/159s are definitely the best 158s/159s.

That's sort of the point, though. A 150 is essentially a suburban spec train, whilst a 158 is regional or 'express', so the door arrangement makes sense. A gripe of the Turbostar generation is that you get a saloon full of noise, draught and commotion at every stop, something which can be rather unwelcome on a long journey, and certainly doesn't feel very 'intercity'. End doors allow a much calmer ambience I find.

 

[Mordac]

Turbostars may be able to climb the hills in the HTML, but their acceleration while doing so is rubbish. The 158/9s I can understand, but not how anyone could prefer any other Sprinter to the 185s, or why such strident hate for them.
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That's sort of the point, though. A 150 is essentially a suburban spec train, whilst a 158 is regional or 'express', so the door arrangement makes sense. A gripe of the Turbostar generation is that you get a saloon full of noise, draught and commotion at every stop, something which can be rather unwelcome on a long journey, and certainly doesn't feel very 'intercity'. End doors allow a much calmer ambience I find.

It also means that boarding doesn't take a week per station, so swings and roundabouts.

 

[BestWestern]

it also means that boarding doesn't take a week per station, so swings and roundabouts.

Rather like blaming Voyagers for being built too small, that a TOC may choose to deploy express stock on stopping services doesn't make the rolling stock poor in itself, just poorly utilised.

 

[Master29]

I like the 158/159`s. Glad some of the GWR 158`s will be coming down to Cornwall with the 4 car HST`s.

 

[keith1879]

185's would not be perfect for any role. Whatever the role there is a better alternative.
185's are the worst riding DMU of any built since the early 1960's. Overweight track damaging fuel guzzlers crawling along being unable to take advantage of Sprinter speed restriction relaxations. They're probably also the worst DMU ever in terms of ability to find seats enabling a reasonable view out .

How anyone can describe the 185s' ride in these terms is beyond me. I ride them regularly and have done since their delivery. They are excellent. So are the 158s by the way.

 

[Brian Aylott]

How anyone can describe the 185s' ride in these terms is beyond me. I ride them regularly and have done since their delivery. They are excellent. So are the 158s by the way.

The ride must be affected by the track with the 185s but the is no doubt that the ride is not good generally on TPE South for example - a regular route for me - and is never as good as the 158s on the same line
A comment has also been made about the 185's quietness - they are noisy unless you happen to be in the one vehicle that isn't powered to save fuel - that is very quiet!
Brian

 

[BestWestern]

A comment has also been made about the 185's quietness - they are noisy unless you happen to be in the one vehicle that isn't powered to save fuel - that is very quiet!
Brian

Except for the relentless air conditioning, presumably?

I find SWTs Desiro units to be smooth riding, but with a rather irksome frequent 'clanking' from the bogies, which becomes rather unavoidable if you happen to sat above one.

 

[Kneedown]

I'd always understood the nickname "Scud" being for 153s.

The "Scud" nickname has always, in staff circles at least, been applied to 158's, and also specifically 150001 and 002.
153's have always been known among staff as "Dogbox's"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find SWTs Desiro units to be smooth riding, but with a rather irksome frequent 'clanking' from the bogies, which becomes rather unavoidable if you happen to sat above one.

Notably the LM units don't have that "clank" (I know what you mean, it sounds like something is loose in the bogies or between bogie and body). Are the WCML ones maintained to a better standard, or is it the poorer SW track that causes this deterioration?
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How anyone can describe the 185s' ride in these terms is beyond me.QUOTE]

With all Desiros it makes a huge difference where you sit. In the vehicle centre it is very smooth, above (or beyond) the bogies you get shaken all over the place.

Mind you, while it's a hard ride (anticipating perfect Germanic track, no doubt) no rail vehicle has as much of a potential to make me feel like I want to throw up than the awful Class 180, which should have been a perfect IC unit but was in fact an absolute crock of a design, cheap and nasty throughout, the only benefits being the shape and pitch of the seating.

 

[Clansman]

I take it you haven't heard them on the climb from Inveness to Slochd.

Not as bad as the 158s anyway, although the engine revving is unreal compared to other areas of the network.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The "Scud" nickname has always, in staff circles at least, been applied to 158's, and also specifically 150001 and 002.
153's have always been known among staff as "Dogbox's"

Scud was the staff name for the 153's in Anglia Railways days. "You fired them off in the morning but you didn't know where they will land by the evening!" was the explanation given to me.

I thought Dogbox referred to Pacers.

If someone can properly sort out the Air Conditioning design issues on the 158's, they could go on for a fair few years yet.

 

[najaB]

Not as bad as the 158s anyway, although the engine revving is unreal compared to other areas of the network.

I've not had the pleasure(?) of a 158 up from Inverness, but 170s always sound like they're about to expire by the time they get to Moy. I started a thread about it a while back and it's because they don't have the right gearing, they aren't in the sweet spot of the torque band when hill climbing.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

When they were brand new, I was invited to go on a little trip out with them. Because my then g/f worked at Nottingham station, she got the chance of a trip on one Saturday to either Cambridge or Cardiff, and could take a guest. We chose Cambridge with most of the other staff who were rest day etc. I think there was about 15 of us. The unit was so new we had to take the plastic bags off the seats. It was a good day, the air con worked and we all got absolutely stocious in Cambridge. Since then, I have slept for many miles on these units, they are so comfortable.

 

[Kneedown]

Scud was the staff name for the 153's in Anglia Railways days. "You fired them off in the morning but you didn't know where they will land by the evening!" was the explanation given to me.

I thought Dogbox referred to Pacers.

If someone can properly sort out the Air Conditioning design issues on the 158's, they could go on for a fair few years yet.

Being a Midland man I dont know about Anglia nicknames, but I bow to your greater local knowledge. 153s have always been dogbox's in these parts. Pacer's are "Nodding Donkeys". Of course, other regions may have other terms of endearment.

 

[Mordac]

The ride must be affected by the track with the 185s but the is no doubt that the ride is not good generally on TPE South for example - a regular route for me - and is never as good as the 158s on the same line
A comment has also been made about the 185's quietness - they are noisy unless you happen to be in the one vehicle that isn't powered to save fuel - that is very quiet!
Brian

I find it a bit hard to believe that every single time I've been on them I was in the unpowered coach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find it a bit hard to believe that every single time I've been on them I was in the unpowered coach.

Back on topic, a 158 with the engines out and windows open is *very* pleasant - both quiet and silky smooth. They really were BREL's finest DMU hour.

 

[BestWestern]

Back on topic, a 158 with the engines out and windows open is *very* pleasant - both quiet and silky smooth. They really were BREL's finest DMU hour.

I find it rather eerie with an engine isolated! The reduced lighting adds to the effect somewhat!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

There were reports (from drivers) on uk.railway many years ago of 158s doing 105mph...

 

[darylyates17]

There were reports (from drivers) on uk.railway many years ago of 158s doing 105mph...

With the 10% over speed they can do 99 MPH so 105 isnt as impressive as it seems but still quick for a 158

 

[keith1879]

I find it a bit hard to believe that every single time I've been on them I was in the unpowered coach.

Me too. I travelled from Leeds to Stalybridge tonight on one. I guarantee that the engine was running - you could hear it roaring when the door was open. When climbing the hills it was perfectly possible to hear other people conversing in a normal tone. This was typical of any one of my journeys over the Pennines on these units - I estimate that I have done 600 - 800 retuirns now as a fare-paying passenger - maybe more.

 

[Brian Aylott]

I find it a bit hard to believe that every single time I've been on them I was in the unpowered coach.

I find it a bit hard to believe (if you've travelled on TPE South) that you've always been on a powered coach or if you've travelled on both you haven't noticed the difference between a silent engine and a working engine at all
Brian

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With the 10% over speed they can do 99 MPH so 105 isnt as impressive as it seems but still quick for a 158

There are stories of even Pacers doing the ton pre-OTMR from the older staff, but as these stories tend to be told in pubs and working men's clubs they should be taken with a pinch of salt!

 

[johntea]

I like the Northern 158 units, always a treat when one turns up instead of a pacer!

My only issue is why do some have seat cushions that 'melt in the middle' where I have enjoyed a nap many times whilst others feel like there is a brick wall underneath them?!

 

[yorksrob]

I like the Northern 158 units, always a treat when one turns up instead of a pacer!

My only issue is why do some have seat cushions that 'melt in the middle' where I have enjoyed a nap many times whilst others feel like there is a brick wall underneath them?!

Yes, seat cushion variability is an issue. The best are the centre carriages of the old TPE 3 carriage sets.

 

[317663]

Don't the 158/159s have quite good acceleration? I've seen videos and on stations them leaving quite fast.

Other than that I hate the front of it, and the doors are thin but probably explained above.

I do like the noise they make when they pass at high speeds.
Especially at Places like Queenstown road and Weybridge, where they pass not near a platform.

 

[dave87016]

I call 153's tin rockets