Opinions On The Class 158

[darylyates17]

I was briefly on an EMT class 158 (158862 with Perkins Engines to be exact) to Liverpool South Parkway today From Liverpool Lime Street and even though it was only around 10 minutes I quickly have gained to really like them I feel that they are very comfy and still look fairly modern for an late 80s/early 90s design and are very quiet but the engines (especially the ones with the Perkins engines) sound quite powerful for a 350HP diesel engine and the exhaust sounds quite deep and aggressive I was wondering what is the general opinion of them and does anyone else think they are a good DMU

 

[superalbs]

The SWT Class 159s are even better, they still have the amazing original seating.

They are by far the best diesel multiple unit in the entire country.

 

[darylyates17]

The SWT Class 159s are even better, they still have the amazing original seating.

They are by far the best diesel multiple unit in the entire country.

I will deffo go on one then if im ever down there I live in Merseyside so of course I haven't been on one yet as I haven't been around there before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An excellent unit marred only by the tight seat pitch in the original layout, which was just about perfect otherwise. Worth noting that the layout as built has 100% window alignment - not a single seat is up against a wall.

Had they been built with 8 bodyside windows rather than 9, and 8 fewer seats per vehicle, they would have been near ideal. Had they been 3- or 4-car rather than 2- or 3-, even better.

Aircon is a bit poor, but that wasn't the case as-built - it's because the as-built system works badly with non-CFC propellants. In the early days I recall stepping on board being akin to stepping into a fridge on a hot day, lovely.

Some of the refurbs are very good, but generally deliver more legroom at the expense of window alignment. The ScotRail Inverness ones (all ScotRail ones are to be done the same way now) manage to mostly keep it, making them almost the ideal evolution of this unit. The ATW one isn't bad either. EMT OK, I particularly like the bright colours and high backed seats, but legroom a bit tight.

 

[superalbs]

I will deffo go on one then if im ever down there I live in Merseyside so of course I haven't been on one yet as I haven't been around there before.

The Northern Class 158s have original seating, so locate one of them and give it a go.

 

[cf111]

Errant observations as someone who travels on ScotRail ones regularly:

• Generally comfortable unless one of the un-refurbished Haymarket based units trundles up - the lighting is much dimmer on these units so that can be nicer but perhaps more difficult for those who do not have good eyesight
  
• Useless air-conditioning, thankfully some opening windows offer relief
  
• The best riding vehicles on the railway today by a distance
  
• They make a nice noise when pulling away
  
• Asthmatic hand-dryers in the toilets, would be much better with towels
  
• Loads of luggage space
  
• The latch on the doors on the door control panels always seem to break and hang open

I think we're stuck with them for the foreseeable, which isn't a bad thing but I do just about prefer the 170s.

Edit: a few more things

• Temperamental doors on the accessible toilets which need manual intervention to close if they close at all
• Non-accessible toilets are tiny!
• They are prone to the "toilet smell" permeating through the train a-la the Voyager at times
• The heating system works well
• I like the bang the external doors make when they open

I think that's all

 

[Bertie the bus]

The Northern Class 158s have original seating, so locate one of them and give it a go.

Original seating but rarely operational aircon so don't go on a Northern 158 on a hot day or you'll soon change your opinion of them.

 

[darylyates17]

Original seating but rarely operational aircon so don't go on a Northern 158 on a hot day or you'll soon change your opinion of them.

I was already aware that the aircon wasnt very good on some units a bit of a problem on them I have heard

 

[Bletchleyite]

[*]The best riding vehicles on the railway today by a distance

This has long been the case, the only UK passenger vehicle that comes close is the heavyweight Super Voyager. They ride exceptionally smoothly on even the worst track, such as the Far North Line's ageing jointed bullhead rail. I hate to think how much a Desiro or *star would bounce around on that, let alone, God forbid, a Pacer.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Northern Class 158s have original seating, so locate one of them and give it a go.

Original seating but rarely operational aircon so don't go on a Northern 158 on a hot day or you'll soon change your opinion of them.

You're both wrong- some Northern units DON'T have original seating as some were refurbished when with Wales & West/Wessex. Also the centre cars in the 3-car units have original seats but with replaced and thicker cushions from TransPennine days.

The aircon seems to be holding up pretty well these days, was in the vestibule of one yesterday and could actually feel a cool blast of air whenever the interior door opened.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was already aware that the aircon wasnt very good on some units a bit of a problem on them I have heard

Caused by the original system being designed for now-banned CFC refrigerants. Modern refrigerants require a different design of system and don't really work with it.

Really the system requires full replacement. Chiltern's Class 165 air cooling system (not true air-con as it doesn't dry the air, but it's effective enough) would I imagine be a reasonable fit.

The same problem occurs on other units of similar vintage, e.g. GWR's Class 168s, on which the aircon simply does not work, and hasn't done since the day CFCs were banned.

 

[darylyates17]

Errant observations as someone who travels on ScotRail ones regularly:

• Generally comfortable unless one of the un-refurbished Haymarket based units trundles up - the lighting is much dimmer on these units so that can be nicer but perhaps more difficult for those who do not have good eyesight
  
• Useless air-conditioning, thankfully some opening windows offer relief
  
• The best riding vehicles on the railway today by a distance
  
• They make a nice noise when pulling away
  
• Asthmatic hand-dryers in the toilets, would be much better with towels
  
• Loads of luggage space
  
• The latch on the doors on the door control panels always seem to break and hang open

I think we're stuck with them for the foreseeable, which isn't a bad thing but I do just about prefer the 170s.

At least it isn't a Pacer god they are awful im glad they are going and you probably haven't been on one up in Scotland as down here in Merseyside they were common around here before the Liverpool-Manchester line was electrified although they are still used a lot on other lines

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're both wrong- some Northern units DON'T have original seating as some were refurbished when with Wales & West/Wessex. Also the centre cars in the 3-car units have original seats but with replaced and thicker cushions from TransPennine days.

The TPE interior was very pleasant indeed - soft, thick seat cushions in a deep, rich blue, and wood-effect panelling and tables (which I suggested when I did a passenger survey in about 1998 - maybe they listened?) Despite not having changed the seats or layout, it gave a real high-quality feel to the units.

 

[darylyates17]

This has long been the case, the only UK passenger vehicle that comes close is the heavyweight Super Voyager. They ride exceptionally smoothly on even the worst track, such as the Far North Line's ageing jointed bullhead rail. I hate to think how much a Desiro or *star would bounce around on that, let alone, God forbid, a Pacer.

Im not that keen on Voyagers to be honest but they do have some good points to them and they are quick off the mark

 

[507021]

I really like the Class 158s, good units in my view, although I personally prefer the Class 156s.

 

[darylyates17]

I really like the Class 158s, good units in my view, although I personally prefer the Class 156s.

I do have more of soft spot for the 156s as I have been on them a lot before the Liverpool-Manchester Line was electrified and I think I had only been on a 158 2 times before today and that was 6 years ago I think

 

[cf111]

This has long been the case, the only UK passenger vehicle that comes close is the heavyweight Super Voyager. They ride exceptionally smoothly on even the worst track, such as the Far North Line's ageing jointed bullhead rail. I hate to think how much a Desiro or *star would bounce around on that, let alone, God forbid, a Pacer.

The 220s ride has always impressed me too, are they not quite lightweight trains as well? I think, and this is purely guesswork, that if the Far North line never gets wired we will end up with Voyagers in many years time. As for sticking a Pacer on the FNL, well I hope they'd be handing out helmets on the platforms !

At least it isn't a Pacer god they are awful im glad they are going and you probably haven't been on one up in Scotland as down here in Merseyside they were common around here before the Liverpool-Manchester line was electrified although they are still used a lot on other lines

Thankfully we've never had them inflicted on us up here, I have used them before in Northern-land and while it was OK for a change on quiet afternoon service, I wouldn't want to travel on one at peak-times or on a regular basis.

 

[J-2739]

158s are awesome: probably the best DMU around, though the ATN ones are a bit grim, and the 'sticky out bits' on a EMT version stabs you on the back...

 

[507021]

I do have more of soft spot for the 156s as I have been on them a lot before the Liverpool-Manchester Line was electrified and I think I had only been on a 158 2 times before today and that was 6 years ago I think

I use the Class 156s fairly regularly on the Manchester Oxford Road route, I think they're excellent units that I've always enjoyed travelling on. The East Midlands Trains Class 158s are excellent too, you can travel on those between Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool South Parkway on an All-Zone SaveAway if you want to try one.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The 158 was the best unit of the BREL days. It's just a shame the T4 bogies were only used on this unit. They set standards for ride comfort that have not been bettered.

 

[Haydn1971]

The EMT 158s are a good ride, with comfy seats (for me) and much preferred ride vs the 185s running the same Hope Valley route. Downsides, include aircon problems, doors that open without user interaction and definitely a bad toilet smell. Arguably the end door formation isn't great for high density station stops vs mid door units.

 

[darylyates17]

I use the Class 156s fairly regularly on the Manchester Oxford Road route, I think they're excellent units that I've always enjoyed travelling on. The East Midlands Trains Class 158s are excellent too, you can travel on those between Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool South Parkway on an All-Zone SaveAway if you want to try one.

I was on an EMT unit before to South Parkway from Lime Street as I was doing a hour spotting there it was my very first time spotting as well I also spoke to an EMT guard during it who told me he preferred the 156 on the Norwich-Liverpool route as the rear unit was a 156 to Lime Street but it was 2 158s on my train to South Parkway

 

[najaB]

I think, and this is purely guesswork, that if the Far North line never gets wired we will end up with Voyagers in many years time.

It will be a long, long time before the FNL gets wired, if ever. As to it getting Voyagers - unlikely. They will be life-expired before they get that far down the cascade chain, and they aren't lightweight units so wouldn't be very popular with NR track maintenance crews up in that part of the world.

 

[Kneedown]

Having failed with a 158 on the Liverpools twice in as many days, and enduring Summer with only a tiny cab fan to keep cool, my opinion of them is even lower than usual at the minute!
Useless at climbing hills, frequent low power faults, sauna conditions for passengers, little luggage space, very poor view from the cab.
Good points are, I prefer them to 156's and 153's!

 

[cf111]

It will be a long, long time before the FNL gets wired, if ever. As to it getting Voyagers - unlikely. They will be life-expired before they get that far down the cascade chain, and they aren't lightweight units so wouldn't be very popular with NR track maintenance crews up in that part of the world.

Considering the current signalling system exists to solve the problem of wires going down, I have my doubts too.

I always thought the 220s were quite light (RA2, the same as a 158?), but I admit I don't know that much about the RA system - of course a 4 car Voyager would be heavier than a 158.

Off topic, but I have my concerns about the long-term viability of the line and can't help but wonder what decisions will be made when the 158s go, pointless for me to conjecture without a crystal ball I suppose!

 

[najaB]

I always thought the 220s were quite light (RA2, the same as a 158?), but I admit I don't know that much about the RA system - of course a 4 car Voyager would be heavier than a 158.

I'm pretty sure you're right that they are RA2, but they have a pretty high axle loading.

 

[thenorthern]

Depends on the operator with the Class 158s for me, East Midlands Trains 158s are very nice inside with plenty of leg room and nice seats, the Northern ones however seem rather dated inside and need a bit of a refresh.

 

[danielnez1]

I really like the Class 158s, good units in my view, although I personally prefer the Class 156s.

To me the 158 is everything the 156 should have been (particularly having Air Conditioning).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 220s ride has always impressed me too, are they not quite lightweight trains as well?

The 220 doesn't in my view quite reach the standard of the 158 on bad track, though admittedly they don't run a lot of services on bad track. The 221 does match it, but the tilt equipment and heavier bogies make it quite a heavy unit.

 

[randyrippley]

all this praise............when they were first introduced they were generally regarded as a disaster with multiple failures of the aluminium bodyshell around the suspension mountings.