County border markers on railway lines

[Tetchytyke]

85% of people don't care

Yes yes, I know that

 

[tbtc]

The OP makes an interesting thread.

I can't think of any examples other than those already listed, but I've noticed a lot more of these "Welcome To Insert County Here - Home Of Historic Slogan" kind of signs on roads over the past decade or so.

Counties (and Unitary Authorities etc) make a huge effort to promote their boundaries to motorists, yet the majority of signs visible from railways seem to be at least a hundred years old.

Okay, I appreciate that you'd struggle to read signs whilst travelling at 125mph (and InterCity services may well cross the boundaries of a number of counties that the service won't actually stop in), but there are lots of slower lines too.

What'd be the point? Well, what's the point in a road sign telling me I'm in Lincolnshire (other than some local pride), yet there seem to be more and more such signs on our highways.

For example, I know that the Scottish Saltire is from East Lothian, because I've seen it on so many road signs welcoming me to the area that it's sunk in - I know that County Durham is the Land Of The Prince Bishops - I've seen so many of these signs that I associate different parts of the country with different things. Yet nobody advertises to railway passengers (even on lines where speeds are certainly slow enough to be able to read a simple sign).

(going off topic, but when coming back from south west Wales towards Yorkshire up the A483, every time we crossed the border into Wales there'd be a huge colourful sign welcoming us to the principality, yet the only notification you got as you left Wales was a modest little monochrome sign simply saying "Shropshire" or "Cheshire" or whatever - some areas are obviously more welcoming than others!)

 

[DarloRich]

I do wonder if TOCs perhaps miss a trick by not offering some kind of window gazers guide for kids on long journeys.

I tend to invent games for the kids on a long trip. How many football teams will we pass, do you know the name of their grounds? Same for cricket or rugby Guess how many counties we go through. Which is the biggest town or city we stop at etc. Fills in the time no end.

I know that County Durham is the Land Of The Prince Bishops -

The finest county in these United Kingdoms.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Indeed the River Tees does mark the border between North Yorkshire and County Durham but its an odd border as if I remember correctly Stockton-on-Tees is in both counties where by Thornaby station is in North Yorkshire and Stockton station is in County Durham but they both fall under Stockton-on-Tees council.

From the 1890's till the Local government re-organisation in 1968, Thornaby was a separate town from Stockton, with it's own town council, and was always in North Yorkshire. It was swallowed up by Stockton Borough Council in 1968. In much the same way Yarm was always in North Yorkshire, But is now with-in Stockton Borough Council.

I believe when the Station was first built (further west than it's present location, but still south of the river in Yorkshire) it was called South Stockton. When the town was given it's Charter in the 1892, one of the first things the local town council did was to build a station befitting it's new status as a Town in it's own right.
Stockton and Thornaby have always had a "difficult" relationship going back to the mid 1800's, and it continues to this day. There have been many attempts since the 1980's to rename Thornaby Station as Stockton or South Stockton, all of which have been met with strong local protests.

 

[DarloRich]

From the 1890's till the Local government re-organisation in 1968, Thornaby was a separate town from Stockton, with it's own town council, and was always in North Yorkshire. It was swallowed up by Stockton Borough Council in 1968. In much the same way Yarm was always in North Yorkshire, But is now with-in Stockton Borough Council.

I believe when the Station was first built (further west than it's present location, but still south of the river in Yorkshire) it was called South Stockton. When the town was given it's Charter in the 1892, one of the first things the local town council did was to build a station befitting it's new status as a Town in it's own right.
Stockton and Thornaby have always had a "difficult" relationship going back to the mid 1800's, and it continues to this day. There have been many attempts since the 1980's to rename Thornaby Station as Stockton or South Stockton, all of which have been met with strong local protests.

South of the Tees = Yorkshire. North = County Durham. What will you take for Hartlepooh?

 

[tbtc]

South of the Tees = Yorkshire. North = County Durham. What will you take for Hartlepooh?

That's my understanding.

Off topic but there was a lovely collection of knitted "Yorkshire" creatures/ people/ landscapes on Saltburn pier a few weeks ago - they know that they belong to Yorkshire!

I do wonder if TOCs perhaps miss a trick by not offering some kind of window gazers guide for kids on long journeys

Virgin did some when the Voyagers came to XC - quite diverting to gaze through one whilst listening to the on board entertainment with a pair of headphones... (it only feels like a couple of years ago, rather than fifteen!)

There are certainly a few lines where that'd be a great idea (both scenic and historic). Did you see the recent story about the Goole line?

 

[Requeststop]

There is a Welcome to Cornwall sign on the platform at Saltash after you have crossed the Royal Albert. Nothing when you enter Devon though. Typical. On the road Bridge crossing the Tamar you have to pay to enter Devon. Typical again.

 

[transmanche]

Darlington isn't in County Durham, it hasn't been since 1997.

It is. You're confusing counties and local government administrative boundaries.

County Durham has four unitary authorities; Durham County Council, Borough of Darlington, Borough of Hartlepool and Borough of Stockton-on-Tees (north of the River Tees). But they are all within County Durham!

 

[thenorthern]

Its still United Kingdom so I think the border railway in Northern Ireland between County Armagh and County Louth in the Republic of Ireland is marked telling the drivers to use KPH rather than MPH.

 

[Railsigns]

Its still United Kingdom so I think the border railway in Northern Ireland between County Armagh and County Louth in the Republic of Ireland is marked telling the drivers to use KPH rather than MPH.

When did Irish Rail switch to using metric speeds?

 

[DarloRich]

It is. You're confusing counties and local government administrative boundaries.

County Durham has four unitary authorities; Durham County Council, Borough of Darlington, Borough of Hartlepool and Borough of Stockton-on-Tees (north of the River Tees). But they are all within County Durham!

oh no - the historic counties debate!

 

[transmanche]

oh no - the historic counties debate!

No, current counties. Historic counties would be arguing that Sunderland or Gateshead are still in in Co. Durham. They are now part of Tyne & Wear, whereas Darlo is still part of Co. Durham!

 

[Tetchytyke]

oh no - the historic counties debate!

More the Lord Lieutenant debate I'm guessing

I don't agree that Darlington is in County Durham. Nor do the road signs, nor the fire service, nor do the hospital trust...

 

[transmanche]

I don't agree that Darlington is in County Durham. Nor do the road signs, nor the fire service, nor do the hospital trust...

Like i said earlier, administrative boundaries and counties are not the same thing. As for the fire service, it just uses the name of the two unitary authorities that it covers. (I notice that you didn't bring up the police service though )

Unitil 1974 Darlington was a County Borough, but no-one would have suggested that it wasn't part of Co. Durham. A Unitary Authority is just modern name for a County Borough - although the older title is still used in Wales.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I notice that you didn't bring up the police service though

Haha, I thought that was because Cleveland Police covered Darlo.

And the road signs say County Durham as you leave Darlo, so I'm sticking with it, regardless of what the Lord Lieutenant is

 

[DarloRich]

OBVIOUSLY Darlington in within the area covered by and called County Durham. Clearly, it hasn't moved to Cumbria or Surrey. However, administratively and politically it sits apart from County Durham and has responsibility of its own to deliver services to the public and collect local taxation. I paid my council tax to DBC not DCC. DBC then spent that money on "services" in Darlington not County Durham.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Would now be the time to bring up the....Tees Valley Combined Authority....

 

[transmanche]

And the road signs say County Durham as you leave Darlo

That being the name of the Unitary Authority area, not county, that you are entering...

 

[DarloRich]

Would now be the time to bring up the....Tees Valley Combined Authority....

no it would not! We in Darlo don't want to mix with you smog monsters in Cleveland

 

[70014IronDuke]

South of the Tees = Yorkshire. North = County Durham. What will you take for Hartlepooh?

Not sure, but Pools have a League football team, don't they?

Must give them some kudos, as you can/t say that about all Co Durham towns
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are (or were) two: A big old fashioned metal one ( no doubt LNER) and a brown tourist sign style one.
...

Yes. A big cut out one with Durham on the north bank, and Yorkshire on the south bank, IIRC. Up side.

Brown Tourist signs were not even a glint in the eyes of signmakers the last time I crossed the Tees by rail.

 

[driver_m]

Nothing Chester - Shotton, Hawarden Bridge - Neston, Chester - Wrexham or Chirk - Gobowen.

There IS a sign on the Chester / Shotton section telling you that you're back in England. But it isn't an official one

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes. A big cut out one with Durham on the north bank, and Yorkshire on the south bank, IIRC. Up side.

Brown Tourist signs were not even a glint in the eyes of signmakers the last time I crossed the Tees by rail.

There's a brown one on the down side, at the bottom of the embankment, with an arrow pointing to County Durham which is technically true, I suppose, County Durham is in that direction when you've got past Darlo

 

[Jona26]

There IS a sign on the Chester / Shotton section telling you that you're back in England. But it isn't an official one

OK. I'll look more closely next time lol. Whereabouts is it?

 

[matchmaker]

The sign at Drumochter Summit is more or less at the county boundary.

 

[Right Away]

At Dean station, between Salisbury and Romsey, the county boundary between Wiltshire and Hampshire bisects the platforms, although a ticket to or from the station will say Dean (Wilts) on it. On the up (Romsey bound) platform, presumably just the Hampshire side of the boundary, there is a large sign which reads 'Welcome to the County of Hampshire. Where Partnership Works'. The sign even retains a Network South East logo as well as the double arrow motif.

 

[adc82140]

There used to be one of those signs at Farnborough too. However it's got me thinking that perhaps the county signs should be at the first station after you cross the "border"