County border markers on railway lines

[MidnightFlyer]

Last weekend I was travelling on the Midland Mainline between Market Harborough and Kettering and noticed on the Up side a sign marking the boundary between Leicestershire and Northamptonshire (much akin to this one), which got me thinking about where else they exist on the railway. There are obviously the England-Scotland border markers on the West and East Cosst Mainlines, and coincidentally I happened to see one for County Durham on its border with North Yorkshire the next day, but apart from those I can never recall seeing any others on our network. Does anyone else know of any examples?

 

[rf_ioliver]

There's at least a sign marking the Welsh-English border just outside the Welsh portals of the Severn Tunnel. Not sure if there's something similar in the middle ...

No idea about the Marches or HOWL

t.

Ian

 

[MonsooN]

There's a signpost on the ECML between Darlington and Durham where the Stillington line joins that says "Stockton" and has an arrow pointing, but I've never noticed a county boundary sign before.

With regards he advent of smartphones with built in GPS, it's much easier to work out where you are now. Also, it's sometimes hard to read a sign when you hurtle past it at 125mph and are sitting in a seat where the angle of vision doesn't let you see very far ahead.

 

[PHILIPE]

There's a board marking the English/Scottish border at it's point between Carlisle and Gretna Jn.

 

[DarloRich]

There is a sign near Darlington ( actually Hurworth Place next to the boro training ground) on the ECML marking the Durham/North Yorkshire boundary

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's at least a sign marking the Welsh-English border just outside the Welsh portals of the Severn Tunnel. Not sure if there's something similar in the middle ...
No idea about the Marches or HOWL

Nothing marking the Marches border.
Nor any county boundaries that I'm aware of (not even Yorkshire ).
There's also the slight problem that NR's "Wales" route doesn't align with the border.
It doesn't at Gretna either, with LNW route extending into Scotland north of Quintinshill (the limit of Carlisle's signalling area).

 

[jopsuk]

Local authority boundary markers would upset the traditional counties lot. Traditional counties markers would be more or less meaningless to anyone that's not that tedious...

 

[Jona26]

Nothing Chester - Shotton, Hawarden Bridge - Neston, Chester - Wrexham or Chirk - Gobowen.

 

[backontrack]

At speed, these are difficult to notice. It would be good if they did announcements at the Scottish and Welsh borders.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At speed, these are difficult to notice. It would be good if they did announcements at the Scottish and Welsh borders.

That's 4 announcements Holyhead-Cardiff, 3 within half an hour...
Actually, Marches folk don't notice the border.

 

[DarloRich]

At speed, these are difficult to notice. It would be good if they did announcements at the Scottish and Welsh borders.

why??

 

[Ploughman]

Deleted

 

[route:oxford]

At speed, these are difficult to notice. It would be good if they did announcements at the Scottish and Welsh borders.

That would be really annoying.

Although could be quite fun if the announcement was followed by:-

Please have passports and immigratioin cards ready for inspection as border control come through the train.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

There used to be a great big one on the Far North line at the County March Summit between Sutherland and Caithness.

I haven't been that way for a while. Perhaps it is still there.

 

[70014IronDuke]

There is a sign near Darlington ( actually Hurworth Place next to the boro training ground) on the ECML marking the Durham/North Yorkshire boundary

I thought there was one as you crossed the Tees south of Darlo. That used to be the border, didn't it? Mind you, I've not been on the GN for 45 years, so I wouldn't want to bet it was still there.
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That would be really annoying.
...

I think it could be quite charming, provided it was from a human being (ie the guard) and not some recording.
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Last weekend I was travelling on the Midland Mainline between Market Harborough and Kettering and noticed on the Up side a sign marking the boundary between Leicestershire and Northamptonshire
...

So where was this, on the east side of the line at Desboro? (I'd assume the watershed there was the border. I can't remember there being a marker there in days of yore.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So where was this, on the east side of the line at Desboro? (I'd assume the watershed there was the border. I can't remember there being a marker there in days of yore.

East side of the line just south of Market Harborough (I would guess around the red dot on this map, the border is very close to the town). As I said in the OP, it was one of the relatively-modern county signs, so I doubt it has been there for long. Should be relatively easy to view from a service stopping at Market Harborough.

 

[backontrack]

I think it should be limited to services that have a destination in a different country (so yes for London-Glasgow but no to Cardiff-Holyhead)

 

[rf_ioliver]

That would be really annoying.

Although could be quite fun if the announcement was followed by:-

Please have passports and immigration cards ready for inspection as border control come through the train.

Many years ago I along with two accomplices managed to convince an Australian tourist (accompanying the said 2 accomplices ) that she'd need to show her passport after the border guard get on a Newport.

Obviously she didn't believe us until after Bristol Parkway she asked the guard who "confirmed" that a passport check would be made by the Welsh Border Guards.

Still only half believing this until at Newport a group of BTP officers boarded the train

I still feel guilty about this today and probably very sorry for the hell she must have given her friends after I left at Cardiff...

t.

Ian

ps: getting back on thread, I recall there was a map on some services of "customer areas" which divided the country into some really odd regions including IIRC most of Wales, the South west and a long strip taking in all stations from Southampton to Hove...looked weird anyway

 

[Domh245]

I think it could be quite charming, provided it was from a human being (ie the guard) and not some recording.

Charming the first few times perhaps, but if you are someone who regularly crosses the border, I imagine that "Welcome to Wales, please have passports and landing cards ready" would get very annoying, very quickly.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Charming the first few times perhaps, but if you are someone who regularly crosses the border, I imagine that "Welcome to Wales, please have passports and landing cards ready" would get very annoying, very quickly.

I fully agree. But that's not what i was supporting - pl check what I wrote - I cut that bit out from the earlier person's response.
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East side of the line just south of Market Harborough (I would guess around the red dot on this map, the border is very close to the town). As I said in the OP, it was one of the relatively-modern county signs, so I doubt it has been there for long. Should be relatively easy to view from a service stopping at Market Harborough.

Ah, now I see. OK, no, i'm pretty sure that is new, er, that is to say, it has appeared since Cl 45s were the main motive power on the line

interesting that the county border is there. I thought the obvious place would be Desboro Summit, ie the watershed.

 

[edwin_m]

From my travels on Amtrak many years ago, I remember announcements that the bar and/or the toilets were about to close due to entering a State/county that had restrictions on alcohol sales and/or discharges to the track.

 

[thenorthern]

A couple of counties such as the Staffordshire and Derbyshire border are marked by bridges as the border is a river but I don't think there are any county borders marked as such on the railways.

There is of course the PTE boundaries that are marked on maps.

 

[transmanche]

A couple of counties such as the Staffordshire and Derbyshire border are marked by bridges as the border is a river but I don't think there are any county borders marked as such on the railways.

I've seen the signs mentioned above, marking the Durham-Yorkshire border - I think it's as the railway crosses the River Tees.

 

[Starmill]

I saw that the other day. I thought it was very odd that I was being welcomed to Northamptonshire of all counties. There's one on the Hope Valley line that says "Peak District National Park"

 

[thenorthern]

I've seen the signs mentioned above, marking the Durham-Yorkshire border - I think it's as the railway crosses the River Tees.

Indeed the River Tees does mark the border between North Yorkshire and County Durham but its an odd border as if I remember correctly Stockton-on-Tees is in both counties where by Thornaby station is in North Yorkshire and Stockton station is in County Durham but they both fall under Stockton-on-Tees council.

 

[DarloRich]

I thought there was one as you crossed the Tees south of Darlo. That used to be the border, didn't it? Mind you, I've not been on the GN for 45 years, so I wouldn't want to bet it was still there.

There are (or were) two: A big old fashioned metal one ( no doubt LNER) and a brown tourist sign style one. The county boundary is still the Tees ( at least in that area) but the sign is on the Durham side therefore in Hurworth place. I lived there for a long time

EDIT: Technically you aren't entering County Durham at that point but Darlington Unitary Authority but the point still stands

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I think it should be limited to services that have a destination in a different country (so yes for London-Glasgow but no to Cardiff-Holyhead)

but why? i just don't see the point. What would be different by knowing this information? It isn't like the border guards and dogs will get on to inspect papers!

 

[transmanche]

EDIT: Technically you aren't entering County Durham at that point but Darlington Unitary Authority but the point still stands

Technically you're still entering County Durham. The fact that Darlington has a unitary authority does not mean it's somehow removed from the county. (A Unitary Authority is just a modern name for a County Borough.)

 

[oglord]

interesting that the county border is there. I thought the obvious place would be Desboro Summit, ie the watershed.

The real border is of course, the Welland: http://wikishire.co.uk/map/#/centre=52.476,-0.920/zoom=14

 

[Tetchytyke]

Technically you're still entering County Durham. The fact that Darlington has a unitary authority does not mean it's somehow removed from the county.

Darlington isn't in County Durham, it hasn't been since 1997.
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I think it should be limited to services that have a destination in a different country (so yes for London-Glasgow but no to Cardiff-Holyhead)

So what about people travelling from Shrewsbury to Cardiff, or Chester to Wrexham? Don't they get to find out when they've crossed the border?

 

[edwin_m]

So what about people travelling from Shrewsbury to Cardiff, or Chester to Wrexham? Don't they get to find out when they've crossed the border?

85% of people don't care, of whom a proportion will be actively annoyed by the announcement. Of the remaining 15%:
- 5% will know the line well enough to know already
- 5% will have a smartphone, GPS or map and work it out for themselves
- 5% might like to know, but it's not really the end of the world is it?

(statistics made up for rhetorical purposes)