• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

Status
Not open for further replies.

highdyke

Member
Joined
29 Dec 2015
Messages
678
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...in-amid-explosive-traingate-row-a3329491.html

Jezza has finally found a seat!

Jeremy Corbyn found a seat on a Virgin carriage today as he returned to the rail operator following the explosive Traingate row.

The Labour leader was pictured smiling as he sat next to two children on a service from London Euston to Glasgow this morning.

Twitter user David Rose posted: “My kids just got on @VirginTrains from Euston to Glasgow with @jeremycorbyn. He has a seat. Good job @richardbranson."

Virgin Trains wished Mr Corbyn a "great trip" to Glasgow.

Meanwhile

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/24/traingate-public-verdict/

By a margin of nearly three to one, voters believe Virgin trains over Jeremy Corbyn
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

313103

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2006
Messages
1,595
Seeing as Corbyn hates Virgin trains so much why did he travel with them again today from Euston to Glasgow.

So how does one get from Euston to Glasgow without changing then? Because unless you know something different i thought that the Euston to Glasgow line was run solely by Stagecoach/Virgin.

As an aside Passengers dont have a choice if they are travelling by rail from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh, as they are both run by the same group.
 

Harbornite

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2016
Messages
3,627
So how does one get from Euston to Glasgow without changing then? Because unless you know something different i thought that the Euston to Glasgow line was run solely by Stagecoach/Virgin.

As an aside Passengers dont have a choice if they are travelling by rail from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh, as they are both run by the same group.

Only one change would be required, but the journey would be slower. Basically you'd do LM from Euston to New Street and XC to either Edinburgh or Glasgow.
 

Johnuk123

Established Member
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
2,800
So how does one get from Euston to Glasgow without changing then? Because unless you know something different i thought that the Euston to Glasgow line was run solely by Stagecoach/Virgin.

As an aside Passengers dont have a choice if they are travelling by rail from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh, as they are both run by the same group.

I don't think I said that London to Glasgow had to be done by rail.
 

southern442

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
2,266
Location
Surrey
There is a thing called an aeroplane you know and a car and a coach.

Coaches and cars take nearly double the time it would take on a train, and Corbyn is a green man so one would think he would stick to his principles and avoid the planes.
 

313103

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2006
Messages
1,595
I don't think I said that London to Glasgow had to be done by rail.

Corbyn lives in Islington, his nearest mainline station is Euston, so why would one want to travel to Heathrow, where the journey to the airport could well be as long as the flight journey.

Car will take about 6 and half hours (obeying the speed limit, no traffic jams and no stopping).

Coach the fastest is 7 hours 45 minutes and that leaves Victoria at 23:30 hrs most average out at 10:00 hrs and require a change.
 

ANorthernGuard

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2010
Messages
2,662
This thread is one of the most stupid threads I have ever read all it is is about Politics nothing to really do with trains. On one side we have Jeremy Corbyn who is a devout Socialist and Proud of it, on the other side we have Richard Branson who is a devout capitalist. Both have their own agendas both will speak as much garbage about each other as possible. Yes I support Corbyn in the majority of what he says but there is no denying Virgin have done a great job on the West Coast and probably will do on the East Coast. No one will back down as it goes against their principles (and reputations). Its a non story that the press will love. Let them get on with it.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
4,714
Regarding filming on a train I think its covered by the bylaws and unless Virgin Trains East Coast have signed a location release clause I think that they can claim certain rights to his film. Undercover filming can be allowed on private property if the creator can prove its in the public interest which I am not sure if Jeremy Corbyn's film is.

Regarding Labour and rail re-nationalisation they mentioned in in the 1990s and in 1995 for sure Blair was committed to rail re-nationalisation if Labour ever won power. Also Milliband called for it during the Virgin Trains franchise saga in 2012 but by the 2015 election he had changed his views. The truth is Corbyn may want it like most the population of this country but its never going to be carried about by Labour and its just a way to mislead people to gain votes.

The days of mass public ownership of infrastructure and utilities have long gone and Labour may want them back but I want a new Ferrari but I am not going to get one.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
I love the line from the Corbyn camp that he couldnt be reached for most of the day because he was making Jam.


It was to ensure his next journey would be jam packed obviously:p
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
18,846
So how does one get from Euston to Glasgow without changing then? Because unless you know something different i thought that the Euston to Glasgow line was run solely by Stagecoach/Virgin.



As an aside Passengers dont have a choice if they are travelling by rail from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh, as they are both run by the same group.

Get the sleeper.... it's Serco, not a variable combination of Virgin and Stagecoach.
 

miami

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
3,305
I think the real thing that I take away from this is that it shows how utterly incompetent our politicians are when it comes to railway matters.

The fact that Corbyn couldn't even find an overcrowded train departing London is absolutely hilarious. If he wanted to make a valid point about how poor Virgin are about managing crowding, he could have gone down to Euston and showed the 1520 train departing with just a handful of customers on board because this supposedly "Peak" train warrants a price tag of £166 each way for a walkup customer

£91.50 surely?

meanwhile the 1900 is full and standing for over 80 Min.

Yet the 1857 relief train that runs on Thursday and Friday to Crewe and Manchester has a fair few empty seats in my carriage, power at every seat in my carriage, room to use a laptop, and even free wifi! Not bad for £38.

Only problem is it's a long old walk upto coach C from declassified coach K.

However these anomolies aside, yes, the off peak trains (the 1740, 1800,1820, 1840) are easy to find seats in, sometimes an entire 4 to yourself. In first class you may well get the entire carriage to yourself. The peak trains (1520, 1900, 1920, 1940) are another matter. Why Virgin don't have a "semi-off-peak" ticket at somewhere about £160 return allowing arrival into London after 10AM and departure at any time is beyond me (ok - they don't want to abstract the fares from the £300 return brigade who just book peak trains without thinking. For those in the know £183 return allows more flexibility than the £80 off peak return)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there is no denying Virgin have done a great job on the West Coast

As a frequenter of virgin trains on the wcml I certainly would deny it. No sockets, tiny seats,

If Chiltern ran through to Crewe I'd certainly be interested in that - power, wifi, nicer seats, and avoid the euston scrum
 

absolutelymilk

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2015
Messages
1,601
However these anomolies aside, yes, the off peak trains (the 1740, 1800,1820, 1840) are easy to find seats in, sometimes an entire 4 to yourself. In first class you may well get the entire carriage to yourself. The peak trains (1520, 1900, 1920, 1940) are another matter.

Should off-peak and peak not be the other way around here?

Why Virgin don't have a "semi-off-peak" ticket at somewhere about £160 return allowing arrival into London after 10AM and departure at any time is beyond me (ok - they don't want to abstract the fares from the £300 return brigade who just book peak trains without thinking. For those in the know £183 return allows more flexibility than the £80 off peak return)

In their statement about Corbyn, Virgin said that they would like to do this but are prevented from doing so by the government, who presumably want to not confuse people too much by offering too many tickets...
 

miami

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
3,305
Should off-peak and peak not be the other way around here?

Peak trains are the trains in most demand, so the times are correct.

In their statement about Corbyn, Virgin said that they would like to do this but are prevented from doing so by the government, who presumably want to not confuse people too much by offering too many tickets...

I suspect Virgin would want to remove flexible tickets completely. Other tocs have "anytime, offpeak, super-offpeak". Virgin even do it when they have competition on the "bottom end" of the market.

That said Virgin don't even offer advance tickets on their most profitable yet empty trains for fear of abstracting revenue.

It's why the railway makes as much money as it does. Which is good for the taxpayer as it's less money that the average person (who doesn't travel by trains) has to put into the coffers.
 

HH

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2009
Messages
4,505
Location
Essex
In their statement about Corbyn, Virgin said that they would like to do this but are prevented from doing so by the government, who presumably want to not confuse people too much by offering too many tickets...

DfT rather than the government; I'd put money on 99% of our elected members knowing nothing about it.

As to why, from similar discussions with officials I'd say it's because they don't know whether it would make or lose money and they'd rather not take the chance - you don't succeed in the Civil Service by rocking the boat.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I suspect Virgin would want to remove flexible tickets completely. Other tocs have "anytime, offpeak, super-offpeak". Virgin even do it when they have competition on the "bottom end" of the market.

That said Virgin don't even offer advance tickets on their most profitable yet empty trains for fear of abstracting revenue.

It's why the railway makes as much money as it does. Which is good for the taxpayer as it's less money that the average person (who doesn't travel by trains) has to put into the coffers.

I don't know to which trains you refer, but it would make no sense to deliberately keep a train empty - you still have all the costs - and an empty train cannot possibly be the most profitable. Perhaps your keyboard ran ahead of your brain here and you meant something different?
 
Last edited:

southern442

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
2,266
Location
Surrey
The days of mass public ownership of infrastructure and utilities have long gone and Labour may want them back but I want a new Ferrari but I am not going to get one.

Not really comparable.

Once again, Corbyn is not trying to mislead voters, for exactly the same reasons I said before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Get the sleeper.... it's Serco, not a variable combination of Virgin and Stagecoach.

Yeah, because the sleeper is incredibly convenient for day travellers!
 

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,981
Clearly some of you are very 'political'. What came over to me, seeing the videos, was how very unpleasant these coaches are. Too many people by far, and so close together, in second class anyway. Perhaps the foreshortened images gave that impression.

For Corbyn, no skin off his nose; for Virgin, not an attractive image, to my mind.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,390
Location
Yorkshire
Should off-peak and peak not be the other way around here?
I got the joke but, to avoid confusion, I think quote marks should have been used, perhaps with addition of a ";)" emotion!

NRE has a false statement about peak times:
Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy.
They couldn't be more wrong when it comes to Virgin Trains :lol:
 

absolutelymilk

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2015
Messages
1,601
However these anomolies aside, yes, the off peak trains (the 1740, 1800,1820, 1840) are easy to find seats in, sometimes an entire 4 to yourself. In first class you may well get the entire carriage to yourself. The peak trains (1520, 1900, 1920, 1940) are another matter.

Peak trains are the trains in most demand, so the times are correct.

Possibly you put the times the wrong way round then!
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,270
In their statement about Corbyn, Virgin said that they would like to do this but are prevented from doing so by the government, who presumably want to not confuse people too much by offering too many tickets...

No, they want to rename the regulated "Off-Peak Return" ticket as "Super Off-Peak Return" with even tighter time restrictions (no departures from Euston until after 8pm, for example), while introducing a new, substantially more expensive, unregulated "Off-Peak Return" ticket which allows departures from Euston after 7pm. They can't do this because peak restrictions on regulated fares departing Euston, and other London terminals, can apply no earlier than approximately 15:00 and no later than approximately 19:00.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I suspect Virgin would want to remove flexible tickets completely. Other tocs have "anytime, offpeak, super-offpeak". Virgin even do it when they have competition on the "bottom end" of the market.

That said Virgin don't even offer advance tickets on their most profitable yet empty trains for fear of abstracting revenue.

The only way for Virgin to introduce three tiers of fares on the WCML is to reduce the number of trains on which the only walk-up fares generally valid, other than season tickets, are Anytime tickets. If they believe that to change "Anytime hours" from 15:01-18:59 to 16:01-17:59, for example, and introduce an intermediate fare valid between 15:01-16:00 and 18:00-18:59 - as adopted, with minor variations, on the East Coast, Midland and Great Western main lines - would lower overall revenue compared to the status quo, why would they want to change?
 
Last edited:

miami

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
3,305
I got the joke but, to avoid confusion, I think quote marks should have been used, perhaps with addition of a ";)" emotion!

On the contary, I'm using "peak" as in the sense of "peak volume", which is the only sensible way to use the term in the afternoon on the WCML.

As you well know, there is so such thing as a peak time train, and I've certainly used off-peak tickets on those trains. They are the trains with a low number of people on, where you always get a seat, hence I can't term them as "peak", which would imply "busy".

I refuse to perpetuate Virgin's "this is a peak time train and off peak tickets are not available" myth.

Corbyn's train does not appear to be peak in any sense of the word.
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
On the contary, I'm using "peak" as in the sense of "peak volume", which is the only sensible way to use the term in the afternoon on the WCML.

London Midland services contribute to the `peak volume' of passengers travelling along the `WCML'.
 
Last edited:

NSEFAN

Established Member
Joined
17 Jun 2007
Messages
3,518
Location
Southampton
Whoever decided to release CCTV footage at Virgin doesn't understand the concept of data protection, it would seem.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ection-information-commissioner-a7206916.html
The Independent said:
The Information Commissioner is looking into a possible breach of data protection rules after Richard Branson's Virgin Trains released CCTV footage of Jeremy Corbyn, in order to rebut his claims their service was "ram-packed".

...

Virgin Trains’ privacy policy has a section on CCTV in which is notes it must comply with data protection laws.

“In certain circumstances we may need to disclose CCTV images for legal reasons, the policy states.

“When this is done there is a requirement for the organisation that has received the images to adhere to the Data Protection Act.”

The Information Commissioner Office’s 2015 guidance on how not to break data protection law with a CCTV system warns against posting images on the internet or giving them to the media.

"It can be appropriate to disclose surveillance information to a law enforcement agency when the purpose of the system is to prevent and detect crime, but it would not be appropriate to place them on the internet in most situations,” the guidance states.

“It may also not be appropriate to disclose information about identifiable individuals to the media.”

It adds that release to the public “should not generally be done by anyone other than a law enforcement agency”.
 

t_star2001uk

Member
Joined
23 Aug 2011
Messages
724
CCTV section from their register entry at the ICO

CCTV - Crime Prevention and/or Staff Monitoring

CCTV is used for maintaining the security of property and premises and for preventing and investigating crime, it may also be used to monitor staff when carrying out work duties. For these reasons the information processed may include visual images, personal appearance and behaviors. This information may be about staff, customers and clients, offenders and suspected offenders, members of the public and those inside, entering or in the immediate vicinity of the area under surveillance. Where necessary or required this information is shared with the data subjects themselves, employees and agents, services providers, police forces, security organisations and persons making an inquiry.

So persons making an inquiry could include members of the media. If the information is given as part of a legitimate inquiry then whatever media agency it has been given to then becomes the Data Controller as it is data in their possession.
 
Last edited:

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
29,503
Location
LBK
Whoever decided to release CCTV footage at Virgin doesn't understand the concept of data protection, it would seem.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ection-information-commissioner-a7206916.html

The ICO will investigate following complaints, a bit like the ASA will when they get complaints.

They are "investigating", so the sentiments of your post is a bit premature at this stage.

Like all regulators, it may be the case that they get complaints, "investigate", do nothing, quietly drop it in a couple of months. I work in regulation and this happens a lot more than you might imagine (!)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top