Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[southern442]

Corbyn proposed nationalising railways as a party policy at the national convention but the proposal failed to get the support of a majority of delegates so its not party policy.

My point was that he wants to renationalise the railways whereas previous leaders didn't want to so to say that he won't want to do that because others didn't is stupid.

 

[Dai Corner]

i think Corbyn's story now is that he wanted to sit next to his wife but couldn't find two empty seats together.

So instead of sitting in a seat next to a stranger he sat on the floor. We don't know whether his wife sat in the floor next to him but if she had I imagine his video would have shown her. What bizarre behaviour!

He also said quite clearly that he wants to nationalise the TOCs, no mention of the ROSCOs or the freight operators. That seems odd to me too.

 

[Johnuk123]

.....

 

[JamesT]

My point was that he wants to renationalise the railways whereas previous leaders didn't want to so to say that he won't want to do that because others didn't is stupid.

You are aware that renationalisation was part of the 1997 Labour Party manifesto? Blair agreed to it to get union agreement for scrapping Clause IV (the old Labour constitution commitment to nationalise everything)

 

[absolutelymilk]

The account I have been led to understand it was that his group was booked on an earlier train, but he was delayed from a long conversation with a disabled member of the public, so they were forced to travel on a subsequent service with no reservations.

They looked for seats, could not find any suitable seats, so sat down in the vestibule

They initially left out that there were single seats available, just not two together As Dai Corner pointed out and JC has now admitted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37173048

Mr Corbyn tried to close down questions about it at a tetchy press conference, saying he had been searching for two seats next to each other.

 

[AlterEgo]

You are aware that renationalisation was part of the 1997 Labour Party manifesto? Blair agreed to it to get union agreement for scrapping Clause IV (the old Labour constitution commitment to nationalise everything)

I don't think it was!

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab97.htm

Railways
The process of rail privatisation is now largely complete. It has made fortunes for a few, but has been a poor deal for the taxpayer. It has fragmented the network and now threatens services. Our task will be to improve the situation as we find it, not as we wish it to be. Our overriding goal must be to win more passengers and freight on to rail. The system must be run in the public interest with higher levels of investment and effective enforcement of train operators' service commitments. There must be convenient connections, through-ticketing and accurate travel information for the benefit of all passengers.

To achieve these aims, we will establish more effective and accountable regulation by the rail regulator; we will ensure that the public subsidy serves the public interest; and we will establish a new rail authority, combining functions currently carried out by the rail franchiser and the Department of Transport, to provide a clear, coherent and strategic programme for the development of the railways so that passenger expectations are met.

The Conservative plan for the wholesale privatisation of London Underground is not the answer. It would be a poor deal for the taxpayer and passenger alike. Yet again, public assets would be sold off at an under-valued rate. Much-needed investment would be delayed. The core public responsibilities of the Underground would be threatened.

Labour plans a new public/private partnership to improve the Underground, safeguard its commitment to the public interest and guarantee value for money to taxpayers and passengers.

 

[Andrewlong]

If Jeremy wants to film a political video - please could I suggest he tries to catch a rush hour London Waterloo to Reading train from Clapham Junction in the rush hour after the schools have gone back eg at 1800.

In all likelihood, JC would have problems getting onto the train as they are often rammed - let alone sit on the floor or a seat.

 

[EAD]

Not a patch on the serial liars of Remain.

Is it really necessary for us in RailUK to descend into this kind of tit for tat based on personal views? This is rail forum and while the topic concerns a politician, too much of the thread has IMHO been taken up with swipes at people and politics more generally rather than the important railway issue of whether or not their were seats.

I make that plea more widely - we are all emotive beings after all.

 

[Johnuk123]

.....

 

[Taunton]

I mentioned above the photograph accompanying this story on the Guido Fawkes blog/bulletin board, and I hope their member Technoquest doesn't mind, but he has done a wonderful pastiche of W H Auden's "Night Mail" which I hope many people here will be interested in - and find very clever. Well done!

http://order-order.com/2016/08/24/traingate-spin-before-after/

This is the night mail crossing the border,
Bringing the wonk and the postal vote fraudster

Letters for the rich, letters for the poor,
The shop at the corner, the girl next door…

Letters of thanks, letters from banks,
Letters of joy from girl and boy,
Receipted bills and invitations
To listen to Corbyn's dull orations,
And applications for situations,
And bent returning officers' declarations,
And gossip, gossip from all the nations,
News circumstantial, news financial,
Letters with holiday snaps to enlarge in,
Letters with faces scrawled on the margin,
Letters from uncles, cousins, and friends,
Like Hamas who are round the bend,,
Letters of condolence to Highlands and Lowlands
Written on paper of every hue,
The pink, the violet, the white and the blue,
The chatty, the catty, the boring, the adoring,
The cold and official and the heart’s outpouring,
Clever, stupid, short and long,
The typed and the printed and the spelt all wrong…

 

[richw]

i think Corbyn's story now is that he wanted to sit next to his wife but couldn't find two empty seats together.

So instead of sitting in a seat next to a stranger he sat on the floor. We don't know whether his wife sat in the floor next to him but if she had I imagine his video would have shown her. What bizarre behaviour!

He also said quite clearly that he wants to nationalise the TOCs, no mention of the ROSCOs or the freight operators. That seems odd to me too.

Maybe his wife moved out of shot for not wanting to be filmed or in the documentary!

 

[infobleep]

I'm questioning what the law should be, not whether VTEC were correct or wrong in this case considering existing law.

It a doesn't matter what the law should be as it's not the law. All that matters in this cae, is it illegal and if so, then they are breaking the law.

It they have broken the law, would this be consideres a crime or does it come under some other legal area?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[HH]

The account I have been led to understand it was that his group was booked on an earlier train, but he was delayed from a long conversation with a disabled member of the public, so they were forced to travel on a subsequent service with no reservations.

They looked for seats, could not find any suitable seats, so sat down in the vestibule and as they had a documentary crew with them anyway, took the opportunity to record a short piece on a major policy area of his. The train staff, realising what was going on and how it would be viewed, offered him a complementary upgrade to 1st class, which he declined on principle. They then upgraded some other passengers to 1st class to free up seats for he [sic] and his wife, which they then took up.

That's it. No story...

Except that's not it. Rather than sit on an available seat that was not next to his wife, he chose to sit on the floor - not next to his wife either(!) - and complain about the train being "ram-packed", using this as a justification for his nationalisation policy.

This has exposed, at least to those who don't have some great mote in their eye, that Corbyn is not Saint Jezza, but just another politician, happy to 'bend the truth' if it bends the right way...

 

[infobleep]

This may be stating the obvious but has Corbyn shown that he had permission to film on Virgin Trains for commercial purposes. (Saying false statements about how your party will re-nationalise the railways when after 13 years in power Labour didn't and won't ever is classes as commercial purposes).

Technically Virgin Trains could prosecute him I think, I know when I film on a train for commercial purposes I have to show my certificate of public liability and the TOC have to then check all my footage to see if its acceptable.

There is the public interest defence but that normally only covers news and documentaries not sitting on a train so you can make a point to try and mislead voters about how your party wants to do something it won't.

This was filmed for a documentary I believe but it got published sooner. Whether you have to work for a certain organisation to be classed as exempt for he purposes of documentaries though, I don't know.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[AlterEgo]

This may be stating the obvious but has Corbyn shown that he had permission to film on Virgin Trains for commercial purposes. (Saying false statements about how your party will re-nationalise the railways when after 13 years in power Labour didn't and won't ever is classes as commercial purposes).

Technically Virgin Trains could prosecute him I think, I know when I film on a train for commercial purposes I have to show my certificate of public liability and the TOC have to then check all my footage to see if its acceptable.

There is the public interest defence but that normally only covers news and documentaries not sitting on a train so you can make a point to try and mislead voters about how your party wants to do something it won't.

Wibble.

Prosecute him under which law please?

 

[Dai Corner]

Maybe his wife moved out of shot for not wanting to be filmed or in the documentary!

Or maybe she sat in one of the available seats?

Incidentally, I wonder whether she paid for her own ticket or whether the Labour Party paid? As far as I know she takes no part in her husband's political life amd was only 'coming along for the ride'.

 

[HH]

Prosecute him under which law please?

It would be a civil action for damages. Branson hasn't been slow to use the courts in the past.

 

[infobleep]

The Guardian reports that Corbyn's campaign has reported that his lies have helped his campaign.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ersy-has-helped-jeremy-corbyns-leadership-bid


They may be right. It wouldn't be the first campaign to lie for policitcal gain - look at brexit.



I haven't seen that since Jeremy Beadle, but do they use CCTV? I thought it was home video cameras (or mobile phones I guess now)


At best, Virgin had, and still have, no way of knowing if they would be causing harm by releasing these pictures. The view on this forum is that if you've got something to hide (like walking out of an adult store {seriously, they exist in the internet age?}) then you deserve to have your picture splashed on the front page.

Surely the view on this form should be whatever the legal position is as that's the only view that matters!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[bnm]

Although on this occasion, the trains are being paid for by the government and not the greedy and evil banks.

Wrong. Spectacularly wrong.

The ECML order covers 497 cars due to enter service between September 2018 and February 2020, to be maintained at a new depot at Doncaster. The deal is being financed by the European Investment Bank which is providing £235m, as well as Japan Bank for International Cooperation, Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ, Development Bank of Japan, HSBC, Lloyds, Mitsubishi Trust, Mizuho, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp, Société Générale and Crédit Agricole. The operators of the new fleet will make leasing payments totalling £2·7bn over the duration of the contract.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ose-on-pound27bn-east-coast-iep-contract.html

 

[Requeststop]

To be very honest, I wouldn't trust either the beardies. The Beardy Branson and his "Virgin on the bloody awful" empire, non of which are quoted on the Stock Exchange and therefore not open to any public scrutiny. Nor the Beardy Corbin and his "bloody awful Socialist activists" who are not under the active scrutiny of even Corbin himself.

To me they are both welcome to each other. God rot the both of them. Bloody awful people.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would be a civil action for damages. Branson hasn't been slow to use the courts in the past.

So not a prosecution then.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Or maybe she sat in one of the available seats?

If so, then why did Corbyn sit on the floor?

 

[Dai Corner]

If so, then why did Corbyn sit on the floor?

Quite. As I said earlier his decision to sit on the floor when there were seats available seems bizarre to me.

 

[Mordac]

Quite. As I said earlier his decision to sit on the floor when there were seats available seems bizarre to me.

Not that other people don't do it, as was the subject of a thread here a few weeks ago. I never understood that.

 

[route:oxford]

i think Corbyn's story now is that he wanted to sit next to his wife but couldn't find two empty seats together.

My elderly parents were laughing at this.

When they board public transport they each grab the first seats they can. Their view is they've been married for almost 50 years, they don't have to sit and hold each others hand when sitting on a train.

In fact, they find people who dilly-dally when boarding, are indecisive about seating arrangements then wander about looking for a better seat to be incredibly annoying.

 

[Robertj21a]

Quite. As I said earlier his decision to sit on the floor when there were seats available seems bizarre to me.

Not when you have a camera on you and there's a chance for a cheap stunt.

 

[Mojo]

I think the real thing that I take away from this is that it shows how utterly incompetent our politicians are when it comes to railway matters.

The fact that Corbyn couldn't even find an overcrowded train departing London is absolutely hilarious. If he wanted to make a valid point about how poor Virgin are about managing crowding, he could have gone down to Euston and showed the 1520 train departing with just a handful of customers on board because this supposedly "Peak" train warrants a price tag of £166 each way for a walkup customer, meanwhile the 1900 is full and standing for over 80 Min.

 

[Johnuk123]

Seeing as Corbyn hates Virgin trains so much why did he travel with them again today from Euston to Glasgow.

 

[EM2]

Seeing as Corbyn hates Virgin trains so much why did he travel with them again today.

Because they run a service to wherever it is that he needed to go?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the real thing that I take away from this is that it shows how utterly incompetent our politicians are when it comes to railway matters.

The fact that Corbyn couldn't even find an overcrowded train departing London is absolutely hilarious.

Did he set out to find an overcrowded train? From what has been said earlier, he wasn't even intending to take this train at all, and happened to find himself on a train that was crowded.

 

[Johnuk123]

Because they run a service to wherever it is that he needed to go?

Didn't you know that there are a few different ways to get to Glasgow.