GEML franchise 2016

[class387]

15th August 2016: 1P40 running as 9P40 due to disruption;
LIVERPOOL STREET TO NORWICH 87 MINS LON-IPS-NOR only.

Did it though? I think you will find it did it in 107 minutes:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O20285/2016/08/15/advanced

 

[LAX54]

Did it though? I think you will find it did it in 107 minutes:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O20285/2016/08/15/advanced

Doh ! missed the 10 mins ! how stoopid of me

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Doh ! missed the 10 mins ! how stoopid of me

I think you missed 20 mins.

 

[class387]

Doh ! missed the 10 mins ! how stoopid of me

You missed 20 actually.

EDIT: Beat me to it!

 

[Robin1966]

Hmmm, there were numerous speed restrictions dotted around because of the condition of the track (as detailed in the WON). But like I said it has got better recently.

Cheers guys

 

[LAX54]

You missed 20 actually.

EDIT: Beat me to it!

Its been a long shift ...doh

 

[dk1]

87 minutes is achievable but alas on the GEML we have too many passengers, too many trains, too much freight & a signalling system that does not always want to send a slow stopping service into a loop. One day maybe :roll:

 

[DasLunatic]

Does anyone know how much work would need to be done to get the Main lines between Stratford and Shenfield up to 100mph operation? There is similar OHLE in use north of Chelmsford, and the limit there is 100...

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone know how much work would need to be done to get the Main lines between Stratford and Shenfield up to 100mph operation? There is similar OHLE in use north of Chelmsford, and the limit there is 100...

The OLE is very different between Stratford and Shenfiled compared to north of Chelmsford. Most of it is very new (the new GEFF system), although some is still the 1949 vintage former DC fixed tension compound equipment. When it is all new (next year, hopefully), the OLE will be fit for 100mph.

That just leaves the track, signalling, stations, structures etc etc.

 

[Wivenswold]

The OLE is very different between Stratford and Shenfiled compared to north of Chelmsford. Most of it is very new (the new GEFF system), although some is still the 1949 vintage former DC fixed tension compound equipment. When it is all new (next year, hopefully), the OLE will be fit for 100mph.

That just leaves the track, signalling, stations, structures etc etc.

Hmm the glass is 1/5th full then. Oh well, it was a nice idea.

 

[dk1]

Does anyone know how much work would need to be done to get the Main lines between Stratford and Shenfield up to 100mph operation? There is similar OHLE in use north of Chelmsford, and the limit there is 100...

It is now 90mph Stratford to Shenfield then a mix of 90/85/90 until the 80 approaching Chelmsford then 60 over the viaduct & through the station area. I think somebody recently said on here that raising this to 100 would save only 90 seconds. Much OHLE work has been done by the look of the shiny catenary but I'm no expert on what still needs doing.

 

[LAX54]

87 minutes is achievable but alas on the GEML we have too many passengers, too many trains, too much freight & a signalling system that does not always want to send a slow stopping service into a loop. One day maybe :roll:

If we were allowed to regulate as we wished, then yes, slows may well get looped at loopable locations

 

[Dave1987]

87 minutes is achievable but alas on the GEML we have too many passengers, too many trains, too much freight & a signalling system that does not always want to send a slow stopping service into a loop. One day maybe :roll:

Erm that's a big can of worms you are opening!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If we were allowed to regulate as we wished, then yes, slows may well get looped at loopable locations

So the people of the smaller stations like Hatfield Peveral, Keveldon, Marks Tey don't deserve a decent service as well then?

If stopping services were looped all the time then it would add up to 50% to the journey times of the smaller stations! Just so the people of Norwich, Diss etc can have 10 mins shaved off their journey times? There are far far more passengers carried by GE services than the Anglias.

 

[LAX54]

Erm that's a big can of worms you are opening!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


So the people of the smaller stations like Hatfield Peveral, Keveldon, Marks Tey don't deserve a decent service as well then?

If stopping services were looped all the time then it would add up to 50% to the journey times of the smaller stations! Just so the people of Norwich, Diss etc can have 10 mins shaved off their journey times? There are far far more passengers carried by GE services than the Anglias.

Quite right, but I am not advocating looping every slow for every fast, just when it makes sense, but for example an IC that is Colchester and London only, and is at Ardleigh, hang onto the 2Fxx for a few mins to keep it going, rather than slow it up, and call M. Tey, Kelvedon, Witham
and similar situations

 

[Dave1987]

Quite right, but I am not advocating looping every slow for every fast, just when it makes sense, but for example an IC that is Colchester and London only, and is at Ardleigh, hang onto the 2Fxx for a few mins to keep it going, rather than slow it up, and call M. Tey, Kelvedon, Witham
and similar situations

Ow indeed, I thought dk1 was talking about looping all over the place like at Shenfield, Witham etc. More often than not its the IC that's late though.

 

[Z12XE]

Quite right, but I am not advocating looping every slow for every fast, just when it makes sense, but for example an IC that is Colchester and London only, and is at Ardleigh, hang onto the 2Fxx for a few mins to keep it going, rather than slow it up, and call M. Tey, Kelvedon, Witham
and similar situations

But that's does happen quite frequently, often at the detriment to the local service and connecting lines which can then cause huge knock on delays and missed connections in the next hour.

Sunday is a good example the 1P uploads are late every hour at the best of time. This the delays the 1N uploads at Colchetser leaving the Sudbury and Braintrees to routinely run late and the 1N service to miss paths on the 2 track railway at Shenfield. Best option in the that case would be let the 1N service to right time and loop at Witham if needed.

 

[Dave1987]

It's quite widely known and recognised that 1Pxx headcodes are prioritised over anything else, quite often to the detriment of other lines.

 

[Wivenswold]

I hope that a few drivers record cab view videos over the next few years so that we have a good record of how the Liverpool Street lines used to be.

Good quality videos from before the last big clear-out of rolling stock on the GE in the second half of the 80's are in short supply on the net.

 

[grumblingalong]

I hope that a few drivers record cab view videos over the next few years so that we have a good record of how the Liverpool Street lines used to be.

Good quality videos from before the last big clear-out of rolling stock on the GE in the second half of the 80's are in short supply on the net.

I'll be embarking on a bit of a project for the regional/intercity side of things. I'm sure with the prevalence of Youtube though we're already in a much better situation.

 

[dk1]

It's quite widely known and recognised that 1Pxx headcodes are prioritised over anything else, quite often to the detriment of other lines.

We've been here before haven't we?

 

[jon0844]

Given their age I think it makes sense to scrap the first-batch 317s, probably along with their GN partners

While looking quite tatty, the GN 317s seem to be very reliable. I always thought Hornsey looked after trains better than Ilford.

But they are old, so maybe they'll be scrapped regardless. However, I think that given a minor refresh, they could be useful to someone until they become mechanically unsound.

 

[306024]

While looking quite tatty, the GN 317s seem to be very reliable. I always thought Hornsey looked after trains better than Ilford.

I remember being in Ilford Depot when the 317s were transferred from Hornsey. We took the sliding doors off one coach to find pages from an 8 year old newspaper behind the runners. No wonder door faults were common, a lot of work had to be done to try to make them more reliable.

 

[jon0844]

I remember being in Ilford Depot when the 317s were transferred from Hornsey. We took the sliding doors off one coach to find pages from an 8 year old newspaper behind the runners. No wonder door faults were common, a lot of work had to be done to try to make them more reliable.

Was the fix to swap with a more up to date edition?

 

[306024]

One idea was to keep the newspaper and throw away the 317. But to be fair they seem to perform quite well on the 18.18 Liverpool St to Ipswich whenever I've caught it.

 

[Dave1987]

We've been here before haven't we?

Yes we have

 

[Wivenswold]

I've always thought the 317s were very well built, when they were introduced the 321s felt flimsy by comparison but that may have been simply because of door bang when passing trains at speed.

I'll miss being woken up by that on my journey home.

 

[samuelmorris]

While looking quite tatty, the GN 317s seem to be very reliable. I always thought Hornsey looked after trains better than Ilford.

But they are old, so maybe they'll be scrapped regardless. However, I think that given a minor refresh, they could be useful to someone until they become mechanically unsound.

I was more referring to the fact that there's already a commitment to cascade them very soon and with all the other Mk3 EMUs coming off lease, they make among the least sense to reuse. No implications regarding their reliability, I don't really use GN services so can't comment on that.

The door bang comment is interesting, do 317s not suffer that? The doors look to be the same from the outside. I know 319s certainly have the same issue.

 

[Wivenswold]

I can't remember the doors on a 317 banging, but I've only traveled on them a few times.

 

[Rick1984]

Very exciting news.

As long as the Aventra units used on slow London to Norwich services have a reasonable level of comfort I don't see a problem. The door layout won't be the best for Intercity travel and hopefully a trolley service will be provided.
Having more IC Flirt trains might reduce flexibility and perhaps ten is the most Crown Point can handle.
Also more could be ordered later.

Going by the number of cars on the Flirts I wonder if they are indeed articulated. Therefore the 3 and 4 regional units would equivalent to current 2 and 3 car units and the 12 car IC equivalent to 10 mkiii carriages. The number of doors per carriage in such a situation wold be interesting.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can't remember the doors on a 317 banging, but I've only traveled on them a few times.

Oh yes they do. Standard feature of class 317-321 units.
Try them on a 100mph GN service on the fast, passed by an EC HST at 125 going the other way...