Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[CardiffKid]

see above quote

I don't really mind politicians using first class especially if there is a security risk/ business to be conducted but it would be good thing if a few of them actually traveled in the same conditions as thier voters.
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You assume that as "leader" of the opposition he isn't within his rights to expense the government for his travel

As he's travelling on personal business to try and be re-elected as leader of a political party he shouldn't be claiming it back from either Parliament or the Labour party.
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I don't know what the rules say - I simply point out it may be a legitimate expense, especially if he threw in some parliamentary business on Tyneside.

You probably don't know what the rules say, but I bet you can have a good guess.

If any MP is claiming cash from the taxpayer for personal political business they should be locked up.

 

[absolutelymilk]

OK, from the OP article we know the train was going from London to Newcastle or beyond, and JC was on it accompanied by a cameraman. We don't know for how much of the journey the train was overcrowded, whether he had a reserved seat but chose to give it up for someone else, or whether there were available seats in other parts of the train. If you wanted to be really cynical you could suggest the whole scene was manufactured for the camera.

Indeed, the fact that his filmmaker happened to be there, and that it took place on his "day of action on transport" might lend credence to that idea...

 

[Steveman]

I doubt you will find a more obviously staged stunt anywhere.
Anyone who really thinks Corbyn was sitting on the floor quite accidentally is a fool.

 

[DarloRich]

As he's travelling on personal business to try and be re-elected as leader of a political party he shouldn't be claiming it back from either Parliament or the Labour party.
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You probably don't know what the rules say, but I bet you can have a good guess.

If any MP is claiming cash from the taxpayer for personal political business they should be locked up.

indeed - however if the parliamentary reason for travel was the primary purpose of the trip I bet he could claim it. How, for instance, do MP's get back to thier constituencies at the weekend?
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I doubt you will find a more obviously staged stunt anywhere.
Anyone who really thinks Corbyn was sitting on the floor quite accidentally is a fool.

I wont have such cynicism Jeremy would never do that!

 

[daikilo]

see above quote

I don't really mind politicians using first class especially if there is a security risk/ business to be conducted but it would be good thing if a few of them actually traveled in the same conditions as thier voters.

I don't mind any politician having a seat (of any sort) then sitting on the floor with those who have paid yet do not have a seat to make a point. That is politics. Giving his seat to someone really in need would have been good also but probably wasn't in the script.

As to the voice-over, I agree that more seats would be nice and may well come, and that direct control may be better suited to the UK, but there is no question that the current railway has delivered much more with private cash than it could have done with only public cash.

This may no longer be valid with the changes in accounting, and that is the question to which I do not have an answer.

 

[CardiffKid]

indeed - however if the parliamentary reason for travel was the primary purpose of the trip I bet he could claim it. How, for instance, do MP's get back to thier constituencies at the weekend?

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You seem to be missing the point.

A MP for a Cardiff seat (for example) can quite legitimately claim for travel between Westminster and Cardiff.

Someone standing to be leader of the Labour Party needing to tour the country for Labour party hustings CAN NOT - I CAN CATOGORICLY ASSURE YOU - claim for that train ticket from the public purse/their Parliamentary expenses (i.e. tax payers money)

 

[yorkie]

If he can't work out how to reserve a seat on a train, how can he be trusted to run a country?

Did you miss my post? Do you never do walk-up journeys?

 

[The Ham]

You seem to be missing the point.

A MP for a Cardiff seat (for example) can quite legitimately claim for travel between Westminster and Cardiff.

Someone standing to be leader of the Labour Party needing to tour the country for Labour party hustings CAN NOT - I CAN CATOGORICLY ASSURE YOU - claim for that train ticket from the public purse/their Parliamentary expenses (i.e. tax payers money)

Has no MP has ever claimed anything that the public thought they weren't entitled to?

Anyway, what is to say (or at the very least someone could argue) that as an MP standing for election as leader of their party that is part of their role as MP and so a legitimate expense? If it is not a legitimate expense then what about any staff that they have (which are being paid for by expenses), is there time that they do any work with regards to campaigning for him to be the leader the reimbursed to Parliament?

I would suggest that it is probably a case of there could be some who would take the view, I'll put it on expenses and see what happens. Especially if they could be fairly vague (i.e. rail travel) about what it is and it falls below the threshold for needing a receipt.

 

[DarloRich]

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You seem to be missing the point.

A MP for a Cardiff seat (for example) can quite legitimately claim for travel between Westminster and Cardiff.

Someone standing to be leader of the Labour Party needing to tour the country for Labour party hustings CAN NOT - I CAN CATOGORICLY ASSURE YOU - claim for that train ticket from the public purse/their Parliamentary expenses (i.e. tax payers money)

I agree - however you may be missing my point as it relates not to a general MP but to the leader of the opposition.

As leader of the opposition Mr Corbyn will have need to travel the country undertaking his duties. If his journey was primarily related to those activities ( and his role as leader is not suspended for the duration of the leadership election) and not his reelection as leader of the labour party he may be able to claim his ticket as an expense. If he was travelling solely to Newcastle for leadership hustings I doubt it is a claimable expense.

If you have knowledge of the expenses policy of the House of Commons I will happily bow to your knowledge.

(Personally I would like him removed as Labour leader so hopefully but that is a different argument )

 

[CardiffKid]

Has no MP has ever claimed anything that the public thought they weren't entitled to?

Given his whiter than white credentials and that he's in a middle of a leadership election and surrounded by a film crew, I would advise that this shouldn't be the moment he starts to fiddle his expenses!

I agree - however you may be missing my point as it relates not to a general MP but to the leader of the opposition.

As leader of the opposition Mr Corbyn will have need to travel the country undertaking his duties. If his journey was primarily related to those activities ( and his role as leader is not suspended for the duration of the leadership election) and not his reelection as leader of the labour party he may be able to claim his ticket as an expense. If he was travelling solely to Newcastle for leadership hustings I doubt it is a claimable expense.

If you have knowledge of the expenses policy of the House of Commons I will happily bow to your knowledge.

(Personally I would like him removed as Labour leader so hopefully but that is a different argument )

Indeed. Jeremy will have two sets of expenses he could claim from.

With his Hat on as the MP for Islington North, he would probably struggle to get away with claiming a rail ticket from London to (I think it) Newcastle?

With his Leader of HM Opposition Hat on, he wouldn't be able to get away with/justify claiming for a rail ticket to a Labour Party event (which is what it was).

As a non Labour supporter I must say I do rather enjoy seeing the Labour Party tear itself a part, but the grown up in me knows that Parliament and indeed the country needs a strong opposition and we don't have that at the moment. (That's not to say that a group of 20 hard left MPs including Corbyn couldn't work together in a new party mind you...)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Given his whiter than white credentials and that he's in a middle of a leadership election and surrounded by a film crew, I would advise that this shouldn't be the moment he starts to fiddle his expenses!

And I doubt he will be fiddling his expenses.

If anyone has evidence he was inappropriately claiming Parliamentary expenses, they should write to IPSA.

I expect that the Labour Party were footing the bill, which would be reasonable.

You have to admire the pantomime logic of the left at times. People in some parts of the country would be a lot better off learning some new skills or becoming more entrepreneurial, rather than buying onto this rubbish. Having lived various parts of the affluent south and south east, the middle ground of the midlands and the north east, the difference is quite marked how some expect others (mainly politicians) to sort their lives out versus those that try their best against all the odds and receive a considerable amount of stick for it. Reverse snobbism is well and truly alive in this country. It's a cop out, lots of people love being crap or average just in case someone says something and there's plenty that will, the north east is the worst for it.

Fascinating rant.

What was your point caller?

I do hope it wasn't "get on your bike", because I've probably lived in more towns than you've had hot dinners.

It's much easier to be "entrepreneurial" (whatever that means) with daddy's trust fund...

 

[highdyke]

And I doubt he will be fiddling his expenses.

I do hope it wasn't "get on your bike", because I've probably lived in more towns than you've had hot dinners.

Doubt it.

It's much easier to be "entrepreneurial" (whatever that means) with daddy's trust fund...

It helps with money and connections, but anyone can start a business today. Buy a book instead of a beer.

PS it wasn't a rant

 

[Tetchytyke]

It helps with money and connections, but anyone can start a business today. Buy a book instead of a beer.

Anyone can start a business.

Depending on which survey you read, anywhere between 55% and 75% of them will fail within five years.

Though what it has to do with railways I don't know. The RMT can't just set up Trotsky Railways.

it wasn't a rant

Of course not.
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Doubt it

I come from a family of people who got on their bike, and have dual nationality (among other things) as a result.

I've just spent the last four years in Hertfordshire, and moved back because living down south wasn't affordable.

What did it teach me?

Same crap, different town.

 

[highdyke]

So do you want people to sit on the floor or be in first class?

 

[fandroid]

He was going to a pre-arranged hustings which would have been booked some time ahead and would have been in his diary. He probably had an advance ticket ( if his office had any sense) and a railcard. If not the latter then his office should wake up as they probably would have paid for the Railcard with the discount on the tickets. A true man of the people would have taken any offer of an upgrade so as to leave more space for those with no seat ( or offered his upgrade to one of them). A nice stunt, but perhaps he should realise that lower fares would mean even more overcrowding.

 

[6Gman]

May I just point out that "people sitting on the floor" doesn't necessarily mean "there were no seats".

I was on a Voyager a few months ago, Crewe to Euston. There were three people in the end vestibule, one of them sitting on the floor.

Train Manager came down, advised some passengers to stow their bags other than on adjacent seats and then directed the standing (and seated on floor) passengers to the vacated seats ...

 

[3141]

However no matter who owns the rail, it's still possible to have an extra train self funding. For example, if there are currently 200 people who refuse to travel because the train is overcrowded, and they would pay £150 each for the trip, another train would mean that's an extra £30,000 of revenue.

You'd have to work out the cost of that train over the course of a year, the actual number of people currently not travelling or travelling by other means, the diagramming to ensure it's in place, etc, but if the railway can't run a train that earns say £10,000 an hour in revenue 18 hours a day 5 days a week without making a loss, then perhaps it deserves to die?

I think you're envisaging additional rolling stock. not simply the use of an existing set more intensively.

Cost of leasing this additional stock (or buying it if we had a re-nationalised system), track costs, staff costs. Assume there's a path for it.

IF there are 200 people currently not travelling but would if there's an extra train - OK. But what if there were only 75 such people? And anyway, out of the potential extra passengers, some would buy advance tickets, once they knew this additional train was running regularly, so the additional revenue would be somewhat lower.

This additional stock certainly wouldn't be earning the revenue you suggest for eighteen hours a day. It's been leased or bought to cater for a peak in demand.

I'm sure there are some situations where an extra service would pay for itself, though most of them would only do so if an existing trainset provided it. Any operator thinking about obtaining additional stock would have to examine the prospects very carefully.

 

[Starmill]

Lot of operators are acquiring additional stock for this very reason, and lots of new services are planned.

 

[daikilo]

Lot of operators are acquiring additional stock for this very reason, and lots of new services are planned.

Really, any examples, d

 

[Starmill]

Really, any examples, d

Yes, why don't you have a look at the four most recent franchise awards?

 

[jamez]

Corbyn said: “Is it fair that I should upgrade my ticket whilst others who might not be able to afford such a luxury should have to sit on the floor?"

Sounds great if it applies only for politicians.
But if you or I should work hard and be careful about how we spend and save then why shouldn't we be entitled to buy ourselves something which can't be afforded by everyone in the whole country. This is what we try to teach our kids, isn't it?

I don't have a lot, but Corbyn's principles of fairness basically mean I shouldn't have as long as there are others who have less. Corbyn wants to take our savings and earnings and give to anyone with less if he gets into power. I'm very scared of Corbyn and Momentum.

Corbynite supporters may be happy to have his principles applied to themselves, but I'm not sure if the general public will agree come election time.

 

[Master29]

Interesting could have sworn that this person was Labour leader at the time the photo was take

I doubt he was ever leader of the labour party.

 

[richw]

I doubt he was ever leader of the labour party.

Brother of the former leader of the Labour Party?

 

[Starmill]

Because the difference in house prices between even the home counties and places like Newark is so big, that a lot of commuters don't bat an eyelid on a 90+ minute commute.

Do you know his train stopped at Newark? If so, which train was it? It's strongly implied that this was a fast train and that it was full all the way to Newcastle. I'm sure there are some York to London daily commuters, but house prices in York might not be too competeitve!

 

[Bald Rick]

Taxpayers money or not, I would expect someone with a job as important as his* to upgrade himself and do some work on the 3 hour journey. He must have plenty to do, and every spare hour must surely be used productively. As it stands (or sits!) it just looks like he wasted a good proportion of a working day.

*leading the organisation that challenges the governing party in matters concerning the future of our country.

 

[richw]

Taxpayers money or not, I would expect someone with a job as important as his* to upgrade himself and do some work on the 3 hour journey. He must have plenty to do, and every spare hour must surely be used productively. As it stands (or sits!) it just looks like he wasted a good proportion of a working day.

*leading the organisation that challenges the governing party in matters concerning the future of our country.

Why should people work whilst travelling. I strongly disagree. Relax and then be relaxed and ready to go when you arrive,

 

[Domh245]

Why should people work whilst travelling. I strongly disagree. Relax and then be relaxed and ready to go when you arrive,

Perhaps in a "low profile" job like MP or other business. But when you are the leader of the opposition... (not to mention that he was travelling for Labour business, so he could have been working on the train with his leader-of-the-opposition hay on)

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Corbyn does travel reguarly by train in standard class. He did when he travelled to Durham for the miners gala.

Roberta Blackman-Woods, Durham's Labour MP however travelled in first!

 

[AlterEgo]

Why should people work whilst travelling. I strongly disagree. Relax and then be relaxed and ready to go when you arrive,

Because travelling often comprises part of the working day.

 

[Envy123]

Do you know his train stopped at Newark? If so, which train was it? It's strongly implied that this was a fast train and that it was full all the way to Newcastle. I'm sure there are some York to London daily commuters, but house prices in York might not be too competeitve!

The article does say "commuters", so I assumed that it is the typical Newcastle service which stops at Peterborough, Newark...etc to name a few. So I assumed that the many commuters are likely bound for places like Peterborough and Newark, places with cheap house prices.

There's only one service per day which runs fast to Newcastle each way, which certainly does cater to some hardy souls who go the full distance, but I doubt that so many people would be able to afford such an expensive ticket, even if done weekly.