EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[DynamicSpirit]

I wouldn't be too upset if we were to just copy-paste the EU - South Korea Free Trade Agreement and replace the words "South Korea" with "United Kingdom".

I'm not massively familiar with that agreement, but a quick Google suggests that it does not include an EU bank passport. Without that, it's likely that significant portions of the UK financial services industry would be forced to move from London to somewhere in the EU (rumours of much interest in this possibility in France), with an obvious loss of both jobs and tax revenues. (Or, if you're the French Government, a likely gain in both jobs and tax revenues)

 

[VauxhallandI]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

Meanwhile I'm sure this will e heralded by The Brexit bunch as good news.

Profit drain to Japan?

 

[furnessvale]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

Meanwhile I'm sure this will e heralded by The Brexit bunch as good news.

Profit drain to Japan?

And this WASN'T planned long before Brexit?

Amazing that in the space of less than a month a Japanese company can look at the newspapers, see that we have voted for out and decide that it can find £24bn and go and buy a slice of the UK.

 

[VauxhallandI]

And this WASN'T planned long before Brexit?

Amazing that in the space of less than a month a Japanese company can look at the newspapers, see that we have voted for out and decide that it can find £24bn and go and buy a slice of the UK.

So there is no chance a feasibility study had been done as we have know about this referendum for a long time.

Then when the pound crashes, oh look it is now within the parameters we said where it would be a goer.

Please don't guess what goes on behind close doors then I won't have to either.

So you don't think what is left of our industry is easier to pick off at the moment?

Hell its ok I'm sure your plan will kick in soon and the hot dog sellers of Kings Lynn will have pulled together and got on with it.

 

[furnessvale]

So there is no chance a feasibility study had been done as we have know about this referendum for a long time.

Then when the pound crashes, oh look it is now within the parameters we said where it would be a goer.

Please don't guess what goes on behind close doors then I won't have to either.

So you don't think what is left of our industry is easier to pick off at the moment?

Hell its ok I'm sure your plan will kick in soon and the hot dog sellers of Kings Lynn will have pulled together and got on with it.

If your knowledge of how multinationals work allows you to write this please carry on.

 

[yorksrob]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

Meanwhile I'm sure this will e heralded by The Brexit bunch as good news.

Profit drain to Japan?

The Establishment has been colluding for decades in the asset stripping of British industry and business, so I don't see why they'd suddenly start wringing their hands about it now.

Perhaps the answer would be for the City to actually start doing it's job and investing in British industry for a change, rather than waiting for everyone else to hoover it up.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The Establishment has been colluding for decades in the asset stripping of British industry and business, so I don't see why they'd suddenly start wringing their hands about it now.

Perhaps the answer would be for the City to actually start doing it's job and investing in British industry for a change, rather than waiting for everyone else to hoover it up.

This is hardly asset-stripping though. It's one technology company buying out another technology company. Happens a lot in the tech sector, very commonly either because the purchaser thinks there is a strategic advantage to be had in getting the two companies' products to work together, or because the purchaser wants to move into the market that the purchased company is active in. I don't see any indication that this takeover is any different in that regard.

In terms of any relevance to Brexit: Well, from what I gather, ARM happens to do relatively little business in Europe, so it's unlikely to be affected much by Brexit. On the other hand, the fall in the value of the £ means that British companies now look very cheap for foreign companies to buy!

 

[VauxhallandI]

If your knowledge of how multinationals work allows you to write this please carry on.

Eh I think I was pointing out that YOU seem to think you are the expert.

Tell me what you are doing to pull together, I'm intrigued.

 

[furnessvale]

Eh I think I was pointing out that YOU seem to think you are the expert.

Tell me what you are doing to pull together, I'm intrigued.

Probably start selling hot dogs in Kings Lynn.

I believe they have their fingers on the pulse!

 

[yorksrob]

This is hardly asset-stripping though. It's one technology company buying out another technology company. Happens a lot in the tech sector, very commonly either because the purchaser thinks there is a strategic advantage to be had in getting the two companies' products to work together, or because the purchaser wants to move into the market that the purchased company is active in. I don't see any indication that this takeover is any different in that regard.

In terms of any relevance to Brexit: Well, from what I gather, ARM happens to do relatively little business in Europe, so it's unlikely to be affected much by Brexit. On the other hand, the fall in the value of the £ means that British companies now look very cheap for foreign companies to buy!

To be honest, I would be more convinced that that were the case if there were as many foreign Tec companies being taken over by British ones, but that's not the impression I get from the business pages.

I can't help but notice that the same commentators who stressed the necessity of staying in the EU seem to be the same ones who insist on everything being up for sale so as to appear "open for business".

 

[Garmoran]

The Anglican Church is the established and official state religion. Its bishops sit in the Lords. the

In Scotland it's the Kirk.

Neither of those churches draws its authority from outside the UK. This is culturally important when we look at the rest of Europe, which are mostly orthodox, Catholic, or Lutheran - all international religions with wide influence and cultural sway across the continent.

Now, not many of us are Anglicans, or go to church, but the above is relevant to consider as a factor when we ask ourselves "why don't a lot of British people consider themselves European?"

Ah! So what you meant to say was "England and Scotland have national churches", which would suggest that there is something particular about the Church of England which makes people feel unEuropean. This is the only conclusion I can draw from your argument, since in Scotland voters voted 2 to 1 in favour if staying in the EU.

Frankly, I don't think religion has anything to do with the vote. I think the underlying reason was a feeling that the English are superior to everyone else and are inevitably held back by cooperating with lesser nations, probably due to folk memories of the Empire and "How we saved Europe from the Hun and the Nazis". Hence the endless repetition during the referendum campaign that Britain would prosper "freed of the shackles of Brussels" and the boasts of being the 5th largest economy in the world.

I think this is a cultural handicap rather than an advantage, and I say this as one with English ancestry as far back as I can find (except for a 3x great grandfather from Shetland) and whose father and grandfather both participated in the World Wars.

 

[Senex]

Frankly, I don't think religion has anything to do with the vote. I think the underlying reason was a feeling that the English are superior to everyone else and are inevitably held back by cooperating with lesser nations, probably due to folk memories of the Empire and "How we saved Europe from the Hun and the Nazis". Hence the endless repetition during the referendum campaign that Britain would prosper "freed of the shackles of Brussels" and the boasts of being the 5th largest economy in the world.

I'm afraid that rings all too true to me. And as far as "saving Europe from the Hun" goes, that's a story that has been backed up by an incessant flow of dramas, films, television stories, etc for the whole of the last 70 years -- an obsession with WW2 that I haven't encountered anywhere else in Europe. (Maybe because we've been so bad at making a success of the peace?) Whatever the cause, we have a national myth very different from others, and I'm not at all convinced that it's one that stands us in good stead to face the future.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

To be honest, I would be more convinced that that were the case if there were as many foreign Tec companies being taken over by British ones, but that's not the impression I get from the business pages.

You're saying that you'd be more convinced that Softbank taking over ARM isn't asset-stripping if more UK companies happened to be separately taking over foreign companies? Sorry, but I don't see the relevance. If you want to assess whether a particular takeover amounts to asset-stripping, then you need to look at the circumstances of that particular takeover, not at whatever other completely unrelated takeovers are happening around the same time, surely?

 

[yorksrob]

You're saying that you'd be more convinced that Softbank taking over ARM isn't asset-stripping if more UK companies happened to be separately taking over foreign companies? Sorry, but I don't see the relevance. If you want to assess whether a particular takeover amounts to asset-stripping, then you need to look at the circumstances of that particular takeover, not at whatever other completely unrelated takeovers are happening around the same time, surely?

Not just Tec firms, but yes, if British firms were taking over foreign ones at the same rate as the other way round, I would be more convinced that the country wasn't being asset stripped, I would be more convinced that we didn't have an unduly lenient regime for takeovers and I would be more convinced that the City was more interested in investing long term in British business rather than just making a fast buck.

Takeovers in this country aren't unrelated at all. They share a regulatory framework and have been shaped by the cultural ethos of the City of London and the ideological preferences of our political Establishment which may well be at the root of the problem.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ah! So what you meant to say was "England and Scotland have national churches", which would suggest that there is something particular about the Church of England which makes people feel unEuropean. This is the only conclusion I can draw from your argument, since in Scotland voters voted 2 to 1 in favour if staying in the EU.

Frankly, I don't think religion has anything to do with the vote. I think the underlying reason was a feeling that the English are superior to everyone else and are inevitably held back by cooperating with lesser nations, probably due to folk memories of the Empire and "How we saved Europe from the Hun and the Nazis". Hence the endless repetition during the referendum campaign that Britain would prosper "freed of the shackles of Brussels" and the boasts of being the 5th largest economy in the world.

I think this is a cultural handicap rather than an advantage, and I say this as one with English ancestry as far back as I can find (except for a 3x great grandfather from Shetland) and whose father and grandfather both participated in the World Wars.

No, not that the CofE makes people feel unEuropean, it's a question of cultural percolation. The CofE was set up in protest at a European church which claimed authority over constitutional affairs in England.

There's a difference between "the CofE makes people feel unEuropean" and "the established church in this country derives its authority from this country alone and has minimal reach outwith it".

It is only one of many contributing factors, the greatest of which, in my opinion, is Britain's relationship with Europe through the age of empire up to WWII.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I'm afraid that rings all too true to me. And as far as "saving Europe from the Hun" goes, that's a story that has been backed up by an incessant flow of dramas, films, television stories, etc for the whole of the last 70 years -- an obsession with WW2 that I haven't encountered anywhere else in Europe. (Maybe because we've been so bad at making a success of the peace?) Whatever the cause, we have a national myth very different from others, and I'm not at all convinced that it's one that stands us in good stead to face the future.

Indeed the flag waving two world wars and one World Cup mob really have a lot to learn.

It's incredibly insulting to suggest "England" won either of the wars and the very things they stand for and relate to the war are the things their forefathers fought against.

If it wasn't so sick it would be funny.

 

[Johnuk123]

Indeed the flag waving two world wars and one World Cup mob really have a lot to learn.

It's incredibly insulting to suggest "England" won either of the wars and the very things they stand for and relate to the war are the things their forefathers fought against.

It wasn't so sick it would be funny.

Oh dear me.

 

[Harbornite]

Oh dear me.

What's wrong with his comment? It's fair to say that the UK, let alone England, did not single-handedly win the first or second world war.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Oh dear me.

Oh dear what?

Disputing the facts or strike a nerve?

 

[Muttley]

Indeed the flag waving two world wars and one World Cup mob really have a lot to learn.

It's incredibly insulting to suggest "England" won either of the wars and the very things they stand for and relate to the war are the things their forefathers fought against.

If it wasn't so sick it would be funny.

As incredibly insulting as having your long time allies, such as NZ, Aus, WI, Rhodesia, SA, Canada and the rest, who stood and fought with you, abandoned, so you can team up with those you've just been fighting with and those you've spent the best part of a thousand years fighting ?
That insulting ?

 

[Harbornite]

As incredibly insulting as having your long time allies, such as NZ, Aus, WI, Rhodesia, SA, Canada and the rest, who stood and fought with you, abandoned, so you can team up with those you've just been fighting with and those you've spent the best part of a thousand years fighting ?
That insulting ?

We didn't abandon the old dominions when we started co-operating with West Germany and France, culminating with our entry to the EEC in 1973. Those countries sought further independence from the UK, hence why Canada voted to change its flag, South Africa chose to cut Commonwealth ties in 1961 and Southern Rhodesia chose UDI in 1965 due to the UK's demands for minority rule.

Anyhow, my point is we didn't abandon our Imperial allies, we just went our separate ways. What's wrong with trying to co-operate with our European neighbours and attempting to reduce the likelihood of another European war?

 

[VauxhallandI]

As incredibly insulting as having your long time allies, such as NZ, Aus, WI, Rhodesia, SA, Canada and the rest, who stood and fought with you, abandoned, so you can team up with those you've just been fighting with and those you've spent the best part of a thousand years fighting ?
That insulting ?

Abandoned? Scraping the barrel now, looks like I held the mirror to your face.

 

[Harbornite]

Also Mutley, did you forget that the French fought alongside us, not to mention the Dutch, Belgians, Poles and Norwegians (admittedly not part of the EU). Let's not pretend that the colonies were perfect; South Africa obviously committed to the war effort with pilots and troops in the battle of Britain and North African theaters respectively, but the South African government's relationship with Britain was a bit frosty, due to the Axis-sympathizing elements of the Afrikaaners in the South African government.

 

[Muttley]

Have you forgotten that one of the main reasons the EU wanted us to stay is because they don't trust themselves not to start fighting again ?
You know, all those great allies, the French, Germans, Dutch, Belgians.

 

[AlterEgo]

Have you forgotten that one of the main reasons the EU wanted us to stay is because they don't trust themselves not to start fighting again ?
You know, all those great allies, the French, Germans, Dutch, Belgians.

Depressing to read such mistrust. Oh well.

 

[Harbornite]

Have you forgotten that one of the main reasons the EU wanted us to stay is because they don't trust themselves not to start fighting again ?
You know, all those great allies, the French, Germans, Dutch, Belgians.

If you actually did some research, you would remember that the Germans basically trampled all over the Netherlands and Belgium and ignored their neutrality as a way of getting to France, so I don't see why you having a go at them. You also seem to have forgotten the resistance movements in all of those countries. Why are you stuck in the past? Just accept the fact that European co-operation is better than conflict.

Also, the EEC was founded to make war as economically undesirable as possible, so a bit more complex than what you think.

 

[radamfi]

The origin of the modern day EU was the European Coal and Steel Community, just a few years after the end of World War II, with the aim of stopping war between France and Germany happening again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was an international organisation serving to unify certain Continental European countries after World War II. It was formally established in 1951 by the Treaty of Paris, which was signed by Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg. The ECSC was the first international organisation to be based on the principles of supranationalism, and would ultimately lead the way to the founding of the European Union.

The ECSC was first proposed by French foreign minister Robert Schuman on 9 May 1950 as a way to prevent further war between France and Germany. He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible" which was to be achieved by regional integration, of which the ECSC was the first step. The Treaty would create a common market for coal and steel among its member states which served to neutralise competition between European nations over natural resources, particularly in the Ruhr.

 

[Muttley]

I'm not having a go at them.
I think Germany and the Germans in general are a wonderful nation. Very much like us in attitude and customs. Not keen on the French (in general), BUT I see no reason for a one size fits all political and financial union from the north down to Greece.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not having a go at them. I think Germany and the Germans in general are a wonderful nation. Very much like us in attitude and customs...

....in which they were considered suitable to be the British Royal Family, as the Dutch decided they had had their turn on the monarchical merry-go-round system....

 

[Harbornite]

I'm not having a go at them.
I think Germany and the Germans in general are a wonderful nation. Very much like us in attitude and customs. Not keen on the French (in general), BUT I see no reason for a one size fits all political and financial union from the north down to Greece.

I also prefer Germany to France.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interesting news...

Chancellor Philip Hammond has begun discussions with China on an ambitious free trade deal which could see greater access for major Chinese banks and businesses to the UK economy.
The Chancellor told the BBC it was time to explore "new opportunities" across the world, including with China, one of the UK's biggest inward investors.
That is despite a short term economic shock from leaving the European Union.
He added that the EU is not in "punishment mode" over the Brexit vote.
"What we now need to do is get on with it in a way that minimises the economic impact on the UK economy in the short term and maximises the benefit in the long term," Mr Hammond said, admitting that there had been "global disappointment" about the Brexit vote.
Chinese state media reported earlier in the month that the Chinese Ministry of Commerce wants to do a UK free trade deal.
Mr Hammond has now revealed that Britain is also keen.
It will be the first time the UK has embarked on such a major project with the second largest economy in the world.
And will raise concerns about cheap manufactured goods entering the UK more easily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573