The North of England - where does it start?

[tony_mac]

One of the images posted earlier actually has some interesting commentary
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/nsdivide/ns_line_detail.html

This is the line that separates upland from lowland Britain, the hills from the most fertile farmland, areas invaded by Vikings from those first colonised by Saxons. Numerous facts of life divide the North from the South – there is a missing year of life expectancy north of this line. Children south of the line are much more likely to attend Russell group universities for those that do go to University (and they often go to the North to study!), a house price cliff now runs along much of the line, and, on the voting map, the line still often separates red from blue.

In terms of life chances the only line within another European country that is comparable to the North-South divide is that which used to separate East and West Germany. This is found not just in terms of relative differences in wealth either side of the line, but most importantly in terms of health where some of the extremes of Europe are now found within this one divided island of Britain.

 

[fowler9]

1. Because many people prefer games with an oval ball and 13 players in each team.

2. Historically, because some of them spent more money on the ground than on the team.


3. Now, in common with other "less wealthy" teams, whenever they discover good players, these are often "plundered" by richer teams.

Apologies mate, it was a poor joke.... alright, a very poor one.
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Hang on there, we gave the World Jamie Vardy... and Ray Wilson... and David Seaman...

Also, Denis Law and Bill Shankly served their apprenticeships in HD1... and we STILL hold the record for successive league championships, we've been matched but never bettered!

As for other sports, we invented Rugby League and had Yorkshire been an independent country in 2012 we'd have been something like 8th in the medals table...

NB: At this point I should mention that I disown that noisy lot in white that play in a big skip next to the M621!

And apologies to your good self to sir. It was meant in jest.

 

[Blamethrower]

One of the images posted earlier actually has some interesting commentary
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/nsdivide/ns_line_detail.html

Very interesting.

I see rugby is south on this map, probably due to rugby school, but the realty is that rugby is as working class as it comes. Local kids don't go to rugby school, they come from the surrounding villages and even further afield, like Clarksons kids.

Locals go to the high schools or the grammar schools (that rugby school was supposed to be), parents work in the warehouses, or they used to work at GEC, further than that, anyone who succeeds, leaves rugby.

Making it north, rather than south.

The rest seems about right though

 

[LuSiVe]

Chesterfield is somewhere I'm not sure about - although it is in Derbyshire (a Midlands county) it often seems closer to Sheffield (a Northern city). Maybe someone from the town can clarify as to what they believe themselves to be.

I put Chesterfield in the Midlands - for me the North starts at the end of the Dronny bypass. The only part of Derbyshire I'd put in the North if the sticky out bit at the top left

 

[DarloRich]

Very interesting.

I see rugby is south on this map, probably due to rugby school, but the realty is that rugby is as working class as it comes. Local kids don't go to rugby school, they come from the surrounding villages and even further afield, like Clarksons kids.

Locals go to the high schools or the grammar schools (that rugby school was supposed to be), parents work in the warehouses, or they used to work at GEC, further than that, anyone who succeeds, leaves rugby.

Making it north, rather than south.

The rest seems about right though

There is an interesting comparison with Luton. It feels Northern; run down, little work, historic main employer long gone. Rugby feels much more affluent and less run down.

Neither are Northern of course.

 

[EM2]

After a chance remark I heard yesterday, I'd like to amend my previous definition.
Are you somewhere where they put gravy on chips? If so, you are in the North

 

[Butts]

After a chance remark I heard yesterday, I'd like to amend my previous definition.
Are you somewhere where they put gravy on chips? If so, you are in the North

Living in a cave and munching on aforesaid "delicacy"

 

[Jonny]

One of the images posted earlier actually has some interesting commentary
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/nsdivide/ns_line_detail.html

Nottingham is questionable enough, but Birmingham, Coventry and Worcester???

Never mind that it would also include Cardiff if it was part of England on that basis. If it's in the Severn watershed then it isn't Northern. Especially if it's not in England either...

 

[J-2739]

Nottingham is questionable enough, but Birmingham, Coventry and Worcester???

Never mind that it would also include Cardiff if it was part of England on that basis. If it's in the Severn watershed then it isn't Northern. Especially if it's not in England either...

If there wasn't a Midlands, I'd say Nottingham is in the North. Including Birmingham, Coventry and Worcester is just plain dumb.

Lets just say, Cardiff is not included in the North-South fiasco

 

[adrock1976]

To me, the north of England would stretch from the area bounded by CH, CW, WA, SK (the Cheshire bits), low end of S (the bits in Yorkshire), and the low end of DN (the bits in Yorkshire) postcode areas up to CA and NE.

I am aware that Berwick upon Tweed is TD, which is a Scotland postcode, but bear in mind that Berwick upon Tweed has changed hands several times between England and Scotland throughout its history.

My original neck of the woods of the West Midlands I define as the low end of SY (the bits in England), TF, WV, ST, WS, B, CV, DY, WR, and HR.

The East Midlands I define as DE (I think the old town hall in Burton on Trent was on the Derbyshire side of the Trent, hence the DE allocation rather than a WS, ST, or a high B. Tamworth straddled both Warwickshire and Staffordshire, but the town hall was on the Warwickshire side, hence the allocation of a high B. Perhaps somebody local could confirm if that was the case or not?), LE, NG, high end of S (the bits in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire), and the high end of SK (the bits in Derbyshire). At a stretch, I would also include LN, as it is east of Nottingham.

I perceive GL, NN, OX, MK, and PE (except Kings Lynn, Boston, and Skegness) as being South Midlands. Of note, Peterborough was once part of Northamptonshire until 1974, when it got moved into Cambridgeshire.

East of England and Anglia to me is CB, NR, IP, CO, CM, SS, RM, and IG.

West of England and Cornwall to me is BS, SN, BA, TA, EX, TQ, PL, and TR. At a stretch, I would also include Gibraltar as it is part of South West Region in European Parliament elections until the day the residents would like it to either be totally independent, or returned to Spain (that is for a different thread).

The Home Counties (another artificial political invention) to me is AL, LU, HP, WD, SL, RG, and EN.

London is obviously the compass point postcodes.

Historic Middlesex is HA, UB, and TW.

Wessex is BH, DT, SP, SO, and PO.

The South of England to me is KT, SM, CR, RH, GU, BN, TN, ME, CT, DA, and BR.

Any thoughts on the above perceptions?

 

[roversfan2001]

Hang on there, we gave the World Jamie Vardy... and Ray Wilson... and David Seaman...

Also, Denis Law and Bill Shankly served their apprenticeships in HD1... and we STILL hold the record for successive league championships, we've been matched but never bettered!

As for other sports, we invented Rugby League and had Yorkshire been an independent country in 2012 we'd have been something like 8th in the medals table...

NB: At this point I should mention that I disown that noisy lot in white that play in a big skip next to the M621!

(my bold)
And we, the mighty Lancastrians, Blackburn Rovers, have won the FA Cup three times in a row - the only club still in existence to do so, none of this "matched" malarky, we are the one and only.

And we've won the Premier League, what have any Yorkshire teams done?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, I agree with a statement made above; if you can go down to the chippy and get gravy with your chips and steak pud, you're in the north - if not, enjoy your afternoon tea with the royal family, soft southerners.

 

[adrock1976]

(my bold)
And we, the mighty Lancastrians, Blackburn Rovers, have won the FA Cup three times in a row - the only club still in existence to do so, none of this "matched" malarky, we are the one and only.

And we've won the Premier League, what have any Yorkshire teams done?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, I agree with a statement made above; if you can go down to the chippy and get gravy with your chips and steak pud, you're in the north - if not, enjoy your afternoon tea with the royal family, soft southerners.

Leeds United won the top flight division in 1992.

Howard Wilkinson was the manager, and was the last English manager to win the top division as it presently stands.

 

[roversfan2001]

Leeds United won the top flight division in 1992.

Howard Wilkinson was the manager, and was the last English manager to win the top division as it presently stands.

The same Leeds United who were in League One as recently as May 2010?
According to Wikipedia, the highest placing Yorkshire team sorted by competitive honours won is Leeds in 13th, traditional Lancashire has 4 teams higher than that, including the top 2 (Blackburn 12th, Man City 8th, Liverpool 2nd, Man Utd 1st).

Lancashire >>> Yorkshire.

 

[Lankyline]

After a chance remark I heard yesterday, I'd like to amend my previous definition.
Are you somewhere where they put gravy on chips? If so, you are in the North

Not just that, you know your in the south when you reach that point in the country, pop into a chippy and ask for mushy peas and they look at you as if you have 2 heads

 

[DarloRich]

Not just that, you know your in the south when you reach that point in the country, pop into a chippy and ask for mushy peas and they look at you as if you have 2 heads

its not the peas or the gravy - it is the batter. They just don't get it right down south

 

[Lankyline]

(my bold)
And we, the mighty Lancastrians, Blackburn Rovers, have won the FA Cup three times in a row - the only club still in existence to do so, none of this "matched" malarky, we are the one and only.

And we've won the Premier League, what have any Yorkshire teams done?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, I agree with a statement made above; if you can go down to the chippy and get gravy with your chips and steak pud, you're in the north - if not, enjoy your afternoon tea with the royal family, soft southerners.

I'll forgive you being a Rovers fan in Leyland, someone has to be You forgot to add the first team to complete the league and cup double, the first team to win the league without losing a game, the highest winning margin in the FA cup, the oldest continuously used ground in the country, Preston North End !!

Makes Yorkie teams achievements distinctly minor league !

 

[MidnightFlyer]

(my bold)
And we've won the Premier League, what have any Yorkshire teams done?

Only town to ever win it, and the first town since Derby County in 1975 to win the top flight (Derby did not obtain city status until 1977). The most recent still-a-town winners before Rovers were Ipswich Town in 1962. Not a bad achievement!

 

[Howardh]

I'll forgive you being a Rovers fan in Leyland, someone has to be You forgot to add the first team to complete the league and cup double, the first team to win the league without losing a game, the highest winning margin in the FA cup, the oldest continuously used ground in the country, Preston North End !!

Makes Yorkie teams achievements distinctly minor league !

And in the Final, Bury 6 Derby 0, and it would have been more but we declared.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think we can all agree that the North-South divide is a moveable boundary. It is in fact always 50 yards south of wherever I happen to be. So currently, the south bank of the Calder in Dewsbury.

 

[DelayRepay]

If dinner consists of sandwiches eaten in the middle of the day, and tea is a cooked meal eaten early in the evening, then you are in the North.

 

[J-2739]

If dinner consists of sandwiches eaten in the middle of the day, and tea is a cooked meal eaten early in the evening, then you are in the North.

That always confuses me, and I live up North

 

[DelayRepay]

That always confuses me, and I live up North

How can it confuse you? Dinner is eaten at dinner time (and at school served by a dinner lady). Tea is eaten at tea time when you get home from work.

And for the avoidance of doubt, if you invite me around for supper I will turn up in my dressing gown at about 10pm and expect a couple of digestives and a mug of hot chocolate!

 

[J-2739]

How can it confuse you? Dinner is eaten at dinner time (and at school served by a dinner lady). Tea is eaten at tea time when you get home from work.

And for the avoidance of doubt, if you invite me around for supper I will turn up in my dressing gown at about 10pm and expect a couple of digestives and a mug of hot chocolate!

Now you just said that, that makes so much sense!

Don't worry, I do that sometimes...!

 

[WestCoast]

If dinner consists of sandwiches eaten in the middle of the day, and tea is a cooked meal eaten early in the evening, then you are in the North.

I bet that's pretty accurate too! There's the Baath/Barth vowel test too

 

[RichmondCommu]

And in the Final, Bury 6 Derby 0, and it would have been more but we declared.

Yes, thanks for that

 

[roversfan2001]

I'll forgive you being a Rovers fan in Leyland, someone has to be

IMO, Leyland is fairly 50/50 PNE to Rovers - obviously excluding the glory hunters in that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course, it was to Preston North End in a first round FA Cup match on 15th October 1887, that my favoured non-league side Hyde United lost by a not insignificant margin of 26-0...

 

[DelayRepay]

I bet that's pretty accurate too! There's the Baath/Barth vowel test too

And the "do more people shop at Waitrose or Morrisons" test...

I'm a northerner living in the south, and my mother was horrified when she came to visit and saw Waitrose products in the fridge. She thought I had spent a fortune on these regional delicacies as a special treat because she was visiting.

And one of my posh southern colleagues from Harpenden told me she'd once been to Morrisons but didn't like it. "You can tell it's a northern company", she said, "the deli counter is full of meat pies."

 

[DarloRich]

I have another possible definition: Can you get a stotty in the Greggs? If no = south.

 

[Lankyline]

IMO, Leyland is fairly 50/50 PNE to Rovers - obviously excluding the glory hunters in that.

Apart from our Wembley playoff victory, don't think either of us have had a lot to cheer about in recent years, still could be worse ie Blackpool fc !