Could the Oxford Tube Work for Other Towns?

[notadriver]

Well this isn't the thread to be debating Boris Johnson's term as mayor but far more people are cycling nowadays because it is a lot safer now, I'd hardly call that depressing.



Low morale amongst bus drivers has more to do with the race to the bottom as far as wages are concerned but that's route tendering for you.

Some London bus drivers are on £15 an hour. Admittedly it's those with senior drivers with long service but I've never been paid that for driving a pcv.
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Were you to read Kings Ferry's twitter page you'd think they were awful. Then read Chalkwell's when they break down, and have to wait 30 minutes on the side of the motorway or the A2 for the next coach to take them...

I don't think any company Twitter page is going to show it in a positive light when commuters are tweeting on it. They only complain and never ever praise. I had once saw a twitter complaint about a service I had been driving that had been arriving into London one minute late for the past 3 days. I mean seriously ?!!!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

The Oxford Tube seems to have been very successful, and I can't help wondering therefore why Oxford seems to be the only city that has this kind of bus service? Is there something that Oxford has that - say - Reading, Cambridge, Southampton or Brighton don't have, which would be essential to make a frequent express bus to London work? Or is it just a case of, noone's bothered trying it for other cities?

Any thoughts?

Oxford -London by road is more competitive time wise with Oxford - London by rail, other cities , unlike those towns and cities which have 100 / 125 mph rail to London ...

the fastest rail services to London from Oxford are via Reading ...

 

[notadriver]

Oxford -London by road is more competitive time wise with Oxford - London by rail, other cities , unlike those towns and cities which have 100 / 125 mph rail to London ...



the fastest rail services to London from Oxford are via Reading ...

Oxford to London train services are scheduled to take an hour or a bit less. The coach from Gloucester Green to Victoria takes 115 minutes according to their website but only 70 minutes from the Thornhill Park and Ride to Victoria.


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[Mikey C]

I guess the big question going forward is how the coach services will be affected by the electrification of the GWR line to London and Crossrail, as even though Oxford trains won't go through the tunnel, it will be a more attractive route into central London than changing to current tubes and buses at Paddington

 

[Ian Hardy]

I guess the big question going forward is how the coach services will be affected by the electrification of the GWR line to London and Crossrail, as even though Oxford trains won't go through the tunnel, it will be a more attractive route into central London than changing to current tubes and buses at Paddington

The electrification won't make much difference, the Crossrail trains from Reading will stop at every station from Reading to Acton Main Line before dropping down to the Paddington Crossrail platforms which will be a journey of about 60 minutes anyway and the plan is for there only to be a half hourly Crossrail service from Reading anyway. The HST fast trains with one call at Reading only take 60 minutes from Oxford. The rail users will continue to catch the GWR train from Oxford to Paddington high level and then change to whatever at Paddington. Half the Crossrail service is not intended to go any further west than Paddington anyway so the only people who will use the Crossrail service from Reading will be from the intermediate stations from Twyford and Acton Main Line.

I don't think anyone would change from the Oxford Tube or X90 to using the train because the time difference will not be much by the time you have changed at Paddington.

 

[PeterC]

I don't think anyone would change from the Oxford Tube or X90 to using the train because the time difference will not be much by the time you have changed at Paddington.

The terminus to terminus time isn't everything, there is also the onward journey at each end to account for. Victoria is a good terminus for the West End while Paddington has fairly poor onward connections. Crossrail is going to change that and may filter off a little traffic from the coaches although will probably benefit more from the release of supressed demand as a change at Paddington puts destinations such as Docklands within easier reach.

 

[duncombec]

Correct if I'm wrong but didn't Chalkwell take over the commuter services from Arriva/New Enterprise?

I remember the all day Invictaway service back in the 80's.

As I understand it, Arriva proper passed their Green Line branded service to New Enterprise when it was reduced to commuter only operation. New Enterprise then passed it to Chalkwell, who have now reduced the number of journeys they operate.

Maidstone is fairly similar to Medway and Sittingbourne in that whilst it has a good rail service, it is expensive and overcrowded, with the stations in the town centres and thus all requiring transport in from the suburbs. I am never quite sure why the support has remained high from North Kent, but not from Maidstone. Before anyone mentions demographics, the market from Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells and Sevenoaks, which only (re-)started a few years ago has grown quite nicely (Centaur).

 

[LexyBoy]

For commuters:
- the coach offers big savings (it was around £1000 vs £4000 for an annual ticket a few years back at least)
- the coach heads out east, where the bulk of Oxford's population is spread, whereas the railway station is to the west of the congested city centre
- cheaper parking than Oxford station (which is £29 per day).

For students:
- 24 hour service
- avoids the trek to the station (especially from Brookes)
- the coach is perceived as being cheaper (actually not by a great deal)

For tourists:
- probably seen as easier?
- more convenient as it's centre to centre

Oxford -London by road is more competitive time wise with Oxford - London by rail, other cities , unlike those towns and cities which have 100 / 125 mph rail to London ...

the fastest rail services to London from Oxford are via Reading ...

Currently the only services between London and Oxford are via Reading, mostly on 125 mph lines (Oxford-Didcot is 90 or 100 IIRC). The coach is quite a bit slower, but as others have said both Oxford and Paddington stations are quite inconvenient, and compared to other cities the coach gets a pretty good run.

 

[notadriver]

In the old days 1980s coaches used to do 80+ on the M40. Nowadays 60 mph is all that's allowed with longer (12 metre+) vehicles. Speed limits on the roads are also getting lower. How is that progress ?
By comparison line speeds on the railway are increasing on most main line trunk routes. Even the slowest Pacer (75 mph top speed) is faster than the newest most modern coaches.


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[Deerfold]

In the old days 1980s coaches used to do 80+ on the M40. Nowadays 60 mph is all that's allowed with longer (12 metre+) vehicles. Speed limits on the roads are also getting lower. How is that progress ?

Coaches obeying the law sounds like progress to me. What speed limits have got lower on these routes?

 

[Statto]

Coaches obeying the law sounds like progress to me. What speed limits have got lower on these routes?

I remember a few coach crashes in the 1980s due to coaches speeding, which is why speed limiters were brought in.

 

[notadriver]

Coaches obeying the law sounds like progress to me. What speed limits have got lower on these routes?

Well I'm pretty sure the 50 mph limit on the A40 starts sooner than it used to entering London and the drops to 40 mph on the Westway.


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[Busaholic]

My understanding of research in the area is that usually when road space decreases, traffic tends to decrease proportionately, so by itself the additional space given to cyclists shouldn't have had much impact. I suspect the real culprit is the growth in services like Uber - something that the Mayor is somehow going to have to tackle if he is to restore the reliability of bus and coach services.

The future Foreign Secretary (order your fall-out shelters now) abolished the Congestion Charge Area in Kensington and Chelsea, totally against TfL advice, as soon as becoming Mayor. I know people who now have to drive to work in order to keep their jobs thanks to the Southern Railway fiasco - not commuters to Central London, admittedly, but nevertheless adding to the congestion. Sadiq Khan has been left with a hell of a mess to sort out: remember Sir Peter Hendy's warning about social unrest if people were not able to get to their places of work thanks to inadequate public transport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coaches obeying the law sounds like progress to me. What speed limits have got lower on these routes?

Coaches are legally allowed to do 70mph on the motorway, but are also legally required to have a 100km/h limiter. Which is at best bizarre.

 

[notadriver]

Coaches are legally allowed to do 70mph on the motorway, but are also legally required to have a 100km/h limiter. Which is at best bizarre.

Only those with a length less than 12 metres. Most new coaches are longer than that these days.


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[Statto]

the way the Oxford suburbs are spread out, it's more accessible to the A40/M40 where as if you want the station you have to circa & navigate through the City Centre so any time gained on the train is lost by journey getting to/from the station, then there's changing at Paddington adding even more time to the journey, so the coach is more convenient.

Most other place to place journeys though the train is far more convenient

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

the way the Oxford suburbs are spread out, it's more accessible to the A40/M40 where as if you want the station you have to circa & navigate through the City Centre so any time gained on the train is lost by journey getting to/from the station, then there's changing at Paddington adding even more time to the journey, so the coach is more convenient.

Most other place to place journeys though the train is far more convenient

Oxford has a sweet spot of

• Poor rail links and journey duration
• Good motorway links
• Complimentary two way flows
• Strong tourist and student demographic
• Poor location of rail stations in Oxford and London compared to the centre
• Location of large travel market on eastern side of city - en route for coach, off route for train

All of that "sweet spottery" makes Oxford fairly special

 

[notadriver]

What about Oxford Parkway and Chiltern ? They seem to have invested heavily in that section.


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[Mutant Lemming]

What about Oxford Parkway and Chiltern ? They seem to have invested heavily in that section.


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I would reckon Chiltern will be taking traffic off First GW more than they will off The Oxford Tube - though they may take some off Stagecoach S5 and X5 routes to Bicester.

Re-opening the Cowley branch with a station at/near Blackbird Leys would help restore First GW's fortunes a little.

 

[Antman]

The EU regulation reduced the speed limiter settings from 65 mph to 62 mph.

If we stop conforming to EU regulations that's not going to make a huge difference.

Well the coach will get three miles further every hour

 

[Deerfold]

Well the coach will get three miles further every hour

Quite.

Or at least when it's actually currently limited (so probably just on part of the M40).

 

[yorkie]

Coaches are legally allowed to do 70mph on the motorway, but are also legally required to have a 100km/h limiter. Which is at best bizarre.

If anyone wishes to discuss whether or not this could change by leaving the EU, please see Will leaving the EU change legislation regarding coach speeds?

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