Bank Holiday Moan-athon

[Cliveblackpool]

Back in BR days, Bank holiday weekends were interesting, seeing rolling stock in different colours, green maroon etc and many long trains. Friday evening at Par watching 3 long charter trains to Newquay leaving every 20 minutes (only 1 stopping at Par), as well as mainline trains. Several relief trains running 10-15 minutes before the scheduled trains to help stop the crush effect on platforms/ trains. A few only stopped at St Austell and Liskeard etc. Most trains had to pull forward at stations like St Austell on the down.
Now they have ordered 5 coach trains to replace the HST's.

 

[Hellfire]

You can argue about the rights and wrongs, but nowadays the idea of bank holidays seems to apply only to white collar workers and local authority employees (and to some extent their dependent businesses like sandwich shops). Part of the problem is that unlike some other countries, our public holidays aren't really tied to anything so there's no real idea of commemoration or collective activity diagram.

Bank holidays are something of an anachronism desperate for reform. I would propose keeping Christmas Day and Boxing Day as Bank Holidays and getting rid of the rest. Instead, add those days to holiday entitlement so people can choose when to use them/ That would spread the load a little.

I don't go anywhere at a Bank Holiday weekend because everyone else does. I'd much rather have been able to take today's holiday when I wanted.

Having said that, it would do little to help congestion when, as with the Spring Bank Holiday, it falls at the beginning of half term so many people would go away in any case.

 

[mirodo]

Working as normal through choice today. On my usual Croydon - Clapham Junction commute, the regular 8 car service was replaced with a 5 car service. As a result, I had to share a table bay with someone. This is totally unacceptable. Heads must roll!

/s

 

[sarahj]

Bank holidays are something of an anachronism desperate for reform. I would propose keeping Christmas Day and Boxing Day as Bank Holidays and getting rid of the rest. Instead, add those days to holiday entitlement so people can choose when to use them/ That would spread the load a little.

I don't go anywhere at a Bank Holiday weekend because everyone else does. I'd much rather have been able to take today's holiday when I wanted.

Having said that, it would do little to help congestion when, as with the Spring Bank Holiday, it falls at the beginning of half term so many people would go away in any case.

Problem with that is there would always be one company going, well if you have to take your extra leave, but, but.... And you want to say to folks, no easter off.. They are fine, ok, things get busy, but it's an extra long weekend. We don't have that many in the UK compared to many other countries. Of course the big difference here, is it's not a holiday for all. I was in Germany during one of the 'bank' holidays. Cologne City Centre. Not a shop open. Over here, we just treat it like a normal shopping day.

 

[infobleep]

Can we get extra points for mentioning the EU referendum?

ie. How much better trains in the UK would be if we remained in/left the EU.

How about leaving the UK and EU? That would be really. Good. In fact perhaps we could. Leave England and go back to separate regions, each with their own King or Queen.

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[Andrewlong]

I work with colleagues in Poland who had last Thursday off as a Bank Holiday - perhaps we should do the same - you wouldn't get everyone rushing off to the Country and if you wanted to make it a long weekend - you would need to book off extra days from your holiday allowance!

Either that or we abolish them and give them to employees to take when they wanted to - but we would do the Media out of a story when it goes wrong!

 

[woody505]

funniest thing I saw from a conductor. Passanger getting on train asked conductor for a ticket as platform machine was broken. "don't worry about its a bank holiday just jump on you can have a freebie". Conductors machine may well of been broken but just seemed very casual tickets where not checked for 2 1/2 hours

 

[Markdvdman]

Bank Holidays are great for retail - which is why I suspect they are kept as they are. The conomy is desire and businesses need all the help they can get in these tough times! i know as our taking go up 30-40% on a bank holiday!

What I despise is Barry Island in the nice weather! I finish work, and Whitsun week with the 6 weeks are the worse, and sometimes cannot get on the train home! It is because Arriva are rife at putting on 2 Car pacers in peak times KNOWING they are going to be crazily busy!

My rant of the day over!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We have always had a definite policy of staying at home on any Bank Holiday, far away as possible from day trippers at resorts or cathedral cities, which are always thronged, thus taking away the enjoyment of the day.

That is before the matter of any rail-based return journey homewards, full of tired and fractious day trippers. (Not every TOC offers first-class travel that can be reserved in advance when booking rail tickets).

 

[Agent_c]

Perhaps the need for some TOCs to pre book and reserve the entire train should be stopped. By all means yield manage and offer deals but not every single seat!

I would suggest at this time of year for these routes it should be the opposite. Require reservations for boarding, like the Cali Sleeper.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I think requiring reservations for boarding is a ludicrous suggestion. One of the great things about our railway system is that it's turn up and go; introducing those sorts of draconian measures during the busiest times turns away exactly the sort of passenger the railway tries to attract during the quietest times.

 

[bramling]

I would suggest at this time of year for these routes it should be the opposite. Require reservations for boarding, like the Cali Sleeper.

No thanks. Season ticket holders shouldn't suffer due to unpredictable spikes in demand.

Jack up advance fares until the excess demand disappears.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of this issue is caused by the UK not having a distinction between IC and commuter. Compulsory reservations do sort of work on IC but regional/commuter makes sense as 100% walk up.


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[Harpers Tate]

Luggage racks cost money tho, the cost is the space that could yield more seats.

I idly spent the time on a EMT Meridian set that wasn't very busy, counting the windows (7 full size plus a little one) and then counting the number of seats in the existing mostly airline layout (60) and worked out that with 4+table seating throughout aligned with the windows, plus airline extras by the half window, there would be exactly the same number of seats, and still space for at least one upright luggage rack; possibly two. What such a layout would also provide would be floor space between seat backs.

The only real answer is an overall expansion of the size of the trains.

Yep - and/or their frequency. Presumably the lower operating cost (crew, pathing capacity) comes from bigger trains.

assuming you are referring to Mk2s.

The dear Doctor was wrong in both his facts and in his conclusions about a number of things - intentionally or otherwise. There must be countless locations across the UK which, had he had his way, would be without rail services and where thousands of people daily would beg to differ with his proposals. In any case, I think that at the time of the dear Doctor and continuing on until somewhere in the late 80s -and probably much later - the belief was that usage would continue to decline. We now know that wasn't to be the case and all the indications are expansion will continue. The lesson for the future, though, would refer to rolling stock presently in use which is to be replaced.

As for provision saying that some people will always take loads with them, why is it up to the TOC`s to cater for that?

I wonder who else you think should do so? A family of four going to Morecambe for the Bank Holiday week will quite understandably want to take holiday luggage for four people there and back. Or perhaps you are proposing that people should drive instead of taking the train. Back in the 60s there was a Conservative transport minister who though exactly that and to that end he appointed a certain Chairman to BR....

 

[plymothian]

I think requiring reservations for boarding is a ludicrous suggestion. One of the great things about our railway system is that it's turn up and go; introducing those sorts of draconian measures during the busiest times turns away exactly the sort of passenger the railway tries to attract during the quietest times.

But this is not what people who complain about overcrowding demand.
They always say "this train is dangerously full, limit the number of tickets you sell".

 

[PHILIPE]

Bank Holidays are great for retail - which is why I suspect they are kept as they are. The conomy is desire and businesses need all the help they can get in these tough times! i know as our taking go up 30-40% on a bank holiday!

What I despise is Barry Island in the nice weather! I finish work, and Whitsun week with the 6 weeks are the worse, and sometimes cannot get on the train home! It is because Arriva are rife at putting on 2 Car pacers in peak times KNOWING they are going to be crazily busy!

My rant of the day over!

There are not many 2 Car ATW Pacers running about as most of the Diagrams are doubled up. Single 150s , yes. Vary often, and on other weekends if the weather is fine, ATW try and rustle a 4 Car Pacer Combo as a Standby to run to Barry Island.

 

[Ianigsy]

Public holidays are good for organisers of community-based events because you can be reasonably confident of the demand for family activities and not everybody will want to travel long distances. You'll find that a lot of local museums will organise events for precisely this reason- the secondary spend on souvenirs and ice creams should cover the outlay on setting the event up.

What rail does badly (and to be fair, road doesn't necessarily do better much of the time) is deal with unpredictable demand. People who aren't going away make plans for holiday weekends according to the weather forecast, which isn't generally known until Wednesday or Thursday of the previous week. Might be enough time to ensure some spare stock, but you can't expect to organise your staffing at such short notice.

In other news, my friend turned up at Truro this morning to find that her train to Leeds (the Penzance-Dundee) starting from Plymouth due to a shortage of train managers. Last seen several hours ago reversing through Stroud...

 

[Hadders]

But this is not what people who complain about overcrowding demand.
They always say "this train is dangerously full, limit the number of tickets you sell".

So how do you do that with a turn up and go railway.

Consider a journey from Stevenage to London. How do you limit the number of tickets sold? Would I be required to reserve a seat (or a standing space when the new 700s with their fewer seats start operating the route )

Do I have to commit to which trains I'll be travelling on? What if I want to come back early, or I get delayed.

It's just not going to work.

 

[Parallel]

There were some disgruntled passengers on a HST from London to the West Country on Sunday morning - Was formed of 7 coaches (vice 8) with one of the unreserved coaches missing. Was full and standing before I boarded (Chippenham) and after I alighted (Exeter). Ouch!

Unfortunately for GWR, signalling failure at Bath put platform 1 out of use this morning, so all trains (in both directions) had to use platform 2. Typically XC services were also being diverted due to the Filton blockade to call at Bath, and virtually everything was delayed (some cancellations) from the morning until the afternoon.

 

[Busaholic]

To be honest, just for once I'd like a TOC on one Bank Holiday to say 'right, you asked for it, 1 ticket = 1 seat, when they're all gone, tough'.

This happened for a period of about a fortnight in 1999, around the solar eclipse in August and applied to all services to/from Cornwall from/to Paddington, Cornwall being the only UK place where the total eclipse could be experienced. Nobody could buy a walk-on ticket : I have no idea of the extent of any inconvenience, but can only relate my personal experience of the effects.

In late July my father, living in London, died - it was not completely unexpected, but nevertheless a shock. I lived in Penzance, had a driving licence but no car, and his funeral was set for just before the eclipse, so it was impossible to board a train. I therefore had to hire a car for three days in order to travel up and back for the funeral. If I had not had a licence I don't know how I'd have got there. As you might imagine, I'd be implacably opposed to any move to bar passengers without advance tickets from boarding trains.

 

[daikilo]

Not long after I were a lad, we would look at what statistics we had for previous years and do our best to add coaches and even trains to cope with what we predicted would be the demand on a mild day. The occasional cobwebs would be removed even if we didn't have 14-day weather forecasts.

The problem today is that we have the statistics, we have the predictive models, we just don't have the trains, mind, nor the cobwebs either and weather will continue to be essentially unpredictable beyond a few days at most times.

We have the railway that we can afford and does us well for most journeys.

 

[Busaholic]

Not long after I were a lad, we would look at what statistics we had for previous years and do our best to add coaches and even trains to cope with what we predicted would be the demand on a mild day. The occasional cobwebs would be removed even if we didn't have 14-day weather forecasts.

The problem today is that we have the statistics, we have the predictive models, we just don't have the trains, mind, nor the cobwebs either and weather will continue to be essentially unpredictable beyond a few days at most times.

We have the railway that we can afford and does us well for most journeys.

I thought we had the trains, but they were rusting in sidings due to the ridiculous way in which the industry was privatised, or is that situation out-of-date?

 

[AndrewE]

We have the railway that we can afford and [it] does us well for most journeys.

No, I would say we have the railway that will give the shareholders and the Directors the maximum returns they can possibly extract. Some old practices (like loads of scruffy old rolling stock sitting round waiting to work a few summer reliefs or specials) probably weren't justified, but we definitely have a railway that is too lean now... no slack at all.
A

 

[mirodo]

As I mentioned up thread, my normal commute today was a 5 coach train as opposed to 8 normally. No complaints, there was still ample space. But what would the rationale have been behind running a shorter formation? Strengthening elsewhere? Cost saving? (Is the difference between 5 and 8 significant enough to make it worthwhile?)

 

[Mikey C]

I was on one of the rammed HSTs out of Paddington on Saturday morning.

What surprised me was getting this email from GWR on Wednesday

Turn your Bank Holiday into an adventure with GWR.

We're giving you a massive 50% off Advanced Purchase tickets to anywhere on our GWR network, between 28 and 30 May – not to mention, double Nectar points.

I took advantage and got a very cheap ticket to Bristol (and there was plenty of choice), but it seemed weird timing to do this sort of promotion during not only a bank holiday, but also the school half term? GWR were basically filling up trains that were already likely to be full.

 

[theageofthetra]

Given that the EU has harmonised train driving licence requirements, signalling on new lines etc, how long do you think it will be before trains travelling over a certain speed (150kph?) will not be able to take standing passengers?

 

[hwl]

Given that the EU has harmonised train driving licence requirements, signalling on new lines etc, how long do you think it will be before trains travelling over a certain speed (150kph?) will not be able to take standing passengers?

Simple all the standees just sit on the floor then

 

[bramling]

As I mentioned up thread, my normal commute today was a 5 coach train as opposed to 8 normally. No complaints, there was still ample space. But what would the rationale have been behind running a shorter formation? Strengthening elsewhere? Cost saving? (Is the difference between 5 and 8 significant enough to make it worthwhile?)

Most likely a Saturday service or special service would be running, with different diagrams in consequence.

This annoyed me on Good Friday. My train home would have been an empty 2x365 on a normal friday, turned into a busy 1x365. A normal working day for me, so a change I didn't particularly appreciate.

Definitely would like to see the back of bank holidays. A total nuisance with no benefit as far as I am concerned. Judging by the complaints of overcrowding and places being crowded as everyone goes to places at the same time they don't seem to work well for many others either.

 

[theageofthetra]

I completely agree about abolishing these antiquated bank holidays. They are a hangover from the days when workers didn't get paid leave and irrelevant. Yes keep Christmas day, Easter Sun and possibly NY but let all employees take the remainder as compulsory leave days at a time which is convenient for them. Any attempt to prevent an employee using these days would be protected in law.

 

[DelayRepay]

I completely agree about abolishing these antiquated bank holidays. They are a hangover from the days when workers didn't get paid leave and irrelevant. Yes keep Christmas day, Easter Sun and possibly NY but let all employees take the remainder as compulsory leave days at a time which is convenient for them. Any attempt to prevent an employee using these days would be protected in law.

Has any other country abolished bank holidays? I like them, as they are the only time I and most of my friends will get a long weekend off together. In fact, I would have more not less (apart from Christmas and Easter, there are only three!).

I remember a few years ago travelling from Yorkshire to London on a Bank Holiday Friday - it might have been the royal wedding a few years ago where I think we got Monday and Tuesday as a bank holiday. Grand Central made their evening service reservations only, had staff checking tickets on the platform and were publicising that services were extremely busy and people should not attempt to travel.

If it's not economical for the railways to cope with the extra demand, they should say so. Heavy publicity telling people not to take the train to the South West, a block on cheap advance ticket and maybe classifying the Friday evening, Saturday morning and Monday afternoon/evening as peak times would help.

Wouldn't do the railways any good in terms of PR, but...

Another question - if we abolished bank holidays, when would Network Rail do the bank holiday engineering works?