Name 5 reopenings that you support the most

[Old Hill Bank]

Stratford- Honeybourne
Round Oak- Walsall
Afonwen- Bangor
Monument Lane- Harborne
Longbridge- Old Hill

The last two are pretty unlikely, but whatever.

Having said that, I also wouldn't mind seeing Blaneau Ffestiniog- Trawsfynydd, Edinburgh- Peebles via Penicuik, Okehampton- Plymouth via Tavistock and Ilfracombe- Barnstaple.

Current plan is for Stourbridge-Walsall to be Tram-Train but not for some years.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm surprised that the Burscough Curves haven't been mentioned yet.

Preston to Southport direct would surely be a winner?

You're right. I remember an article in RAIL a few years back which talked about 3 (technically 4) curves in the North which if reinstated would open up new journey opportunities. Of those, Burscough is the only one (or two) which isn't either up and running or on the way. The others being Todmorden and Halton.

What would be the best solution though? I'd suggest extending the 3rd rail from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge via the South curve, with the North curve diverting the Preston service to Southport. If Ormskirk services were to run through to Southport it'd probably be OHLE but if running to a bay at Burscough for connections DC would be fine. Burscough Junction might be worth closing in that case, but either way I'd retain the link from Preston to Ormskirk.

I'd also take the opportunity to extend Merseyrail beyond Kirkby to Skelmersdale and perhaps Wigan Wallgate.

 

[The Ham]

the top 5 I come up without having to think too hard about whether others are better suited to the list or the order:

- Alton - Winchester - would allow a good diversion route when things were happening between Winchester (ish) and Brookwood (ish). As well as picking up a lot of new development that has or is due to happen along the line.

- Exeter - Plymouth via Okehampton - run as an extension to the Waterloo to Exeter services to speed up journey times from the south to Plymouth (i.e. removes the need to get to Reading)

- Guildford - Cranleigh - possibly run as an extension to the Waterloo to Woking stoppers, would provide a direct service to London although most would change) but would also improve frequency of trains between Guildford and Woking without the risk of problems on the Portsmouth line service.

- Camp Hill Line - to provide relief to a busy corridor into Birmingham

The last one is a bit of a curve ball (partly as there would be a bit of new line to make it so that it wasn't a flat junction across the SWML), but one I think could work well:

- Reopening the curve to enable trains to run between Farnborough Main and Frimley (probably Basingstoke - Ascot services or even Salisbury -Ascot post electrification to Salisbury) - would provide local services (so when there was a problem inwards of Farnborough there would still have some services between Farnborough and Basingstoke as well as some relief on the London bound trains in the morning peaks as less people would get on and off each train), it would also provide an easy diversion around engineering works inwards of Farnborough.

 

[DarloRich]

I dunno, Leamside has a lot of support behind it.

support is one thing, cash is another.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have walked the line from Stainmore to Belah and back a few times and the views are stunning. As an eleven year old, I was allowed to travel on my own from Workington to Carlisle via Maryport and to Penrith via Keswick when holidaying with grandparents. Both destinations were just over a shilling half day return. On a visit to Penrith in 1961, I realised that the DMU travelling south along the WCML was a service from Penrith to Darlington. With fear of not getting back from Darlington I got off at Kirkby Stephen and caught the next train back to Penrith and then Workington. Sadly, I did not travel over Stainmore before the line closed in 1962 either.

it is superb up on the tops around Stianmore but terrible in winter! I would love to have been able to travel the route by train if only to see some of the places we built in OO gauge.

 

[Harbornite]

it's interesting to see that no one has mentioned the Somerset and Dorset yet, but that line doesn't have the best business case. I also wouldn't mind seeing Kings Heath, Moseley and Castle Bromwich stations open again.

Current plan is for Stourbridge-Walsall to be Tram-Train but not for some years.

Indeed it is, and there's a plan for a light rail centre at Dudley which could.interfere with those plans.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm surprised that the Burscough Curves haven't been mentioned yet.

Preston to Southport direct would surely be a winner?

I guess most people are too busy thinking of long routes in the middle of the countryside. Reopening a couple of simple connections between existing lines totalling no more than half a mile probably isn't romantic enough But you're right, opening those curves (and providing associated infrastructure) would have a big impact on services.

Likewise a short re-opening that would feature close to the top of my list: Blackpool South to Blackpool Central.

 

[notlob.divad]

Ok so i only have 2, they are..

1. Bootle Line
Ok its still used be Freight but Passenger Services could work aswell, The Buses that run where the Stations would be are always packed and standing! (1 said route is just getting upgraded to Deckers!)

2. Carr Mill Railway Station
Shut in World War 1 but back then hardly anyone lived there whereas now loads live there, Could also build a P&R to get people off the East Lancs Motorway

I think you must live quite near me. I would agree with both of those and add in the St Helens Central to St Helens Junction line. I would love it to continue into Widnes as well, but too much of it has been built on.

Carr Mill is served by the Arriva North West service 352 that connects two large towns of St Helens and Wigan and en route, also serves Billinge, Orrell and Pemberton.

There is a 15 minute service provision and there are both early starts and late finishes shown in the timetable.

I am not quite sure why the presence of the 352 bus would be used as an argument to prevent the re-opening of Carr Mill station. The number 10 and 10A buses runs from St Helens to Prescot would that be used as a reason to shut Thatto Heath and Eccleston Park?

I'm surprised that the Burscough Curves haven't been mentioned yet.

Preston to Southport direct would surely be a winner?

Preston to Southport and Ormskirk to Southport, would both be attractive for the people of the respective towns. However I think the bigger economic benefits would be if you could tie it all into Suburban/Rural metro style systems.

Therefore I would propose.

Expansion of the Liverpool Merseyrail system around the South Burscough Curve to Southport.
Use the Ormskirk - Preston, Preston to Blackpool South, Preston - Colne, The Blackpool Tram system a reopened north Burscough curve and a re opened Fleetwood line, to create a Central Lancashire Metro.

So I think that is my 5.
1. St Helens Central to St Helens Junction. With trains between Wigan and WBQ/Chester.
2. Carr Mill Station
3. Burscough curve South
4. Burscough curve North
5. Fleetwood Line.

As you can see very North West focused, I don't claim to be impartial.

 

[najaB]

I guess most people are too busy thinking of long routes in the middle of the countryside. Reopening a couple of simple connections between existing lines totalling no more than half a mile probably isn't romantic enough...

If we're speaking relatively short sections of line that would have a big impact on services then reinstating the 'long' curve at Carstairs, along with a flying junction - this would allow Edinburgh services to save a considerable amount of time and avoid the conflict with Glasgow services.

 

[JamesTT]

Did I imagine it or was there once talk of reopening the line between Cranleigh and Guildford?

 

[507021]

My five re-openings:

1) Liverpool St James station
2) Woodhead Line
3) Great Central Main Line
4) North Liverpool Extension Line
5) Otterspool station

I think number 1 is the most likely, but the rest I'm not sure of. I can dream!

 

[MTN]

Regarding the Somerset & Dorset.......

Not going to happen, but a case could be made for the 2 ends:

Blandford Forum to Poole via Wimborne

Shepton Mallet to Bath

Also in the similar neck of the woods, opening stations at Somerton, Langport and Wellington

 

[Lankyline]

Preston to Southport and Ormskirk to Southport, would both be attractive for the people of the respective towns. However I think the bigger economic benefits would be if you could tie it all into Suburban/Rural metro style systems.

Without getting into the Beeching argument and hindsight is a wonderful thing, the closure of the Preston - Southport line has proved, like a lot of closed lines, to be a mistake given the current state of the road link (A59/570), population growth along the route etc, as I recall the fastest service from Preston to Southport (and vice-versa) in 1962/3 was 28mins, you'd be lucky to get out of Preston in that time.
The only potential issue with resurrecting the curve would be the length of time a potential service would take, imo anything over 45mins could defeat its viability.
Yes I believe the curves should be re-instated, as to a suburban/rural metro style system, do you mean tram/train or extend the 3rd rail system ?

 

[Taunton]

Also in the similar neck of the woods, opening stations at Somerton, Langport and Wellington

This would be my thought too (well, of course), with an intermediate service covering points from Paddington to Exeter, freeing up the long distance service to Plymouth and Cornwall to operate nonstop, and with efficiency. It parallels the service pattern on the ex-LSWR line to the south, which has notably developed traffic over time and continues to do so. It seems poor that a seat from Paddington to say Castle Cary is then not sat in again all the way down to Penzance - except on those occasions when there have been standing passengers on the first stage.

In another old neck of the woods of mine, the many suggestions for Burscough Bridge often seem to fail on too much service provision. Extend the Liverpool electrics to a bay on the south side of Burscough Bridge; cut back the Preston trains to a bay on the north side, and allow connections onto the Southport-Wigan line. That's it. No duplicated services but all flows catered for by connections.

 

[paul1609]

1 to 5 Robertsbridge Junction to Bodiam (K&ESR)

 

[notlob.divad]

Without getting into the Beeching argument and hindsight is a wonderful thing, the closure of the Preston - Southport line has proved, like a lot of closed lines, to be a mistake given the current state of the road link (A59/570), population growth along the route etc, as I recall the fastest service from Preston to Southport (and vice-versa) in 1962/3 was 28mins, you'd be lucky to get out of Preston in that time.

Agreed, it is a shockingly badly connected area of the country.

The only potential issue with resurrecting the curve would be the length of time a potential service would take, imo anything over 45mins could defeat its viability.

At this point I would suggest something is better than nothing. You could suggest re-opening the original route via Longton, but I don't think the cost of that would be justifiable.

Yes I believe the curves should be re-instated, as to a suburban/rural metro style system, do you mean tram/train or extend the 3rd rail system ?

Whatever works. I was actually looking at two separate 'Metros' per say an extension to Merseyrail for the South Curve. And a new one for the Central Lancashire one. No reason they couldn't be two different (but compatible) philosophies.

I wouldn't suggest 3rd rail for the Central Lancashire Metro as the lines don't currently have any. With my inclusion of the Blackpool Trams it would point towards a Tram-Train system however there is so much track that would be shared with mainline services and the Rural nature of most of the route means they would have to be well specified and unlike much of what we see in existing systems.

As for the Merseyrail extension (which incidentally I think is the most likely to happen) I think we will get a good idea when Merseyrail announce their new rolling stock as there are some 'interesting' suppliers on the tender shortlist.

Anyway, just wild speculation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In another old neck of the woods of mine, the many suggestions for Burscough Bridge often seem to fail on too much service provision. Extend the Liverpool electrics to a bay on the south side of Burscough Bridge; cut back the Preston trains to a bay on the north side, and allow connections onto the Southport-Wigan line. That's it. No duplicated services but all flows catered for by connections.

Like the original layout of Rainford Junction. It would be weird having Burscough junction where there isn't a junction and Burscough bridge where there is, but I do see your point, New Lane and Bescar Lane don't really need any extra services.

 

[PR1Berske]

You're right. I remember an article in RAIL a few years back which talked about 3 (technically 4) curves in the North which if reinstated would open up new journey opportunities. Of those, Burscough is the only one (or two) which isn't either up and running or on the way. The others being Todmorden and Halton.

What would be the best solution though? I'd suggest extending the 3rd rail from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge via the South curve, with the North curve diverting the Preston service to Southport. If Ormskirk services were to run through to Southport it'd probably be OHLE but if running to a bay at Burscough for connections DC would be fine. Burscough Junction might be worth closing in that case, but either way I'd retain the link from Preston to Ormskirk.

I'd also take the opportunity to extend Merseyrail beyond Kirkby to Skelmersdale and perhaps Wigan Wallgate.

Lancashire County Council has made it quite clear That there are no plans to even consider reopening the Curves.

 

[Harbornite]

I was also going to mention the reopening of Radstock and Tavistock stations, both of which seem to have had some support and could happen in the 2020's.

 

[Taunton]

As for the Merseyrail extension (which incidentally I think is the most likely to happen)

Actually, I don't. Although it's "logical", the Merseyrail future is driven by the Merseyside authorities. Ormskirk to Burscough is wholly in Lancashire. And nowadays it seems services which cross their borders are just beyond the abilities of local authorities.

Look at the issues the old London Transport had with their Underground branches extending out into Bucks and Essex, which nearly led to them being closed before the 1980s GLC was wound up, LT was transferred to central government control for a while, and the relevant MPs could now ensure continuation.

 

[notlob.divad]

Actually, I don't. Although it's "logical", the Merseyrail future is driven by the Merseyside authorities. Ormskirk to Burscough is wholly in Lancashire. And nowadays it seems services which cross their borders are just beyond the abilities of local authorities.

Look at the issues the old London Transport had with their Underground branches extending out into Bucks and Essex, which nearly led to them being closed before the 1980s GLC was wound up, LT was transferred to central government control for a while, and the relevant MPs could now ensure continuation.

Anything that breaks the direct Ormskirk to Preston link would not work politically I agree with that. But the West Lancashire Council are a consultative member of the New Combined Regional Authority, which is a good sign of future co-operation. There are also many 'cross border' bus services which extend across this boundary. I am not sure it would be the inter council politics, more the money politics, who pays, subsidies, who runs and maintains the track, access charges etc that would scupper it.

 

[Lankyline]

Agreed, it is a shockingly badly connected area of the country.


At this point I would suggest something is better than nothing. You could suggest re-opening the original route via Longton, but I don't think the cost of that would be justifiable..

Unfortunately that could now never happen, the original trackbed has been built on at Penwortham, Hesketh Bank, New Longton, Crossens to name just 4 places and that's without bridges missing, roads built on and/or diverted over the trackbed, this was definitely one short-sighted closure !

Without getting too much off topic, the line had high costs in staff, high number of manually operated level crossings, infrastructure maintenance eg bridge over the Douglas and that's before we get to running costs ! No dmu's were introduced or any consideration given to reducing staff etc etc

I reckon Lancs County Council aren't backing the Burscough Curves due to a couple of reasons, they have spent money backing SELRAP (which has political backing) BC has virtually none, they think BC is down to Merseyrail and they are backing the reopening to Skelmersdale

 

[Taunton]

I was also going to mention the reopening of Radstock

Radstock could surely not happen because the proposal is to reopen southwards to Frome, just because that was the most recently closed and undisturbed route. But honestly, hardly anyone in Radstock wants to go to Frome, they mainly look towards Bristol, and also to quite an extent towards Bath (old S&D tradition, plus the bus network for historic bus boundary reasons in the area focused more on Bath than Bristol).

 

[RichmondCommu]

As Martin Luther King said "I have a dream .... "

And then he was killed. On that basis it might be wise to stop dreaming.

 

[Bevan Price]

1. Kenyon Jn - Leigh - Eccles (removing the misguided busway)
2. St. Helens - St. Helens Junction (but only worth doing if there are through trains to Manchester or beyond.)
3. Exeter - Okehampton - Plymouth.
4. Chinley - Matlock - Derby.
5. Harrogate - Ripon - Northallerton

Reserve list:
York - Beverley - Hull.
Perth - Forfar - Kinnaber Jn (potential for faster Glasgow/Aberdeen services)
Lewes / Eastbourne - Uckfield, Heathfield, Tunbridge Wells & related lines.
March - Spalding
GCR main line (with new connections to MML & WCML, mainly as freight route to release paths on other lines, and avoid need to spend ££££££ on HS2.)

.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Assuming East-West, Portishead and Bere Alston-Tavistock are all definitely going to happen my five genuinely worthwhile candidates are

1. Ashington (no-brainer, surely?)
2. Stillington & Leamside (regeneration, ECML relief)
3. Harrogate-Ripon (congestion relief)
4. Skelmersdale (to both Liverpool & Wigan, providing much faster connections to an isolated satellite town)
5. Cranleigh (congestion relief)

And since dreaming is seemingly also allowed on this thread some through lines I wish I had been able to ride over.

1. Carlisle-Hawick (-New Borders Rly)
2. Tebay-Stainmore-Darlington
3. Matlock-Millers Dale
4. Hereford-Brecon-Neath
5. Taunton-Barnstaple

New Line.

Tulloch-Kinlochlaggan-Laggan-Newtonmore

Even better than any of mine!!

Current plan is for Stourbridge-Walsall to be Tram-Train but not for some years.

Haven't Centro just binned their support for this?

 

[MTN]

Radstock could surely not happen because the proposal is to reopen southwards to Frome, just because that was the most recently closed and undisturbed route. But honestly, hardly anyone in Radstock wants to go to Frome, they mainly look towards Bristol, and also to quite an extent towards Bath (old S&D tradition, plus the bus network for historic bus boundary reasons in the area focused more on Bath than Bristol).

Which is why, if you are going to re-open a line, I mentioned the old Somerset and Dorset north from Shepton Mallet via Midsomer Norton and Radstock to Bath as that is where the locals commute. It would ease a lot of pressure on what is a slow drive.

 

[deltic08]

In no particular order:

Middlewich
South Staffs (Walsall - Lichfield - Burton)
Leamside
Harrogate - Ripon - Thirsk
Leicester - Burton

A professional study has already been done to determine Ripon-Thirsk v Ripon-Northallerton. Due to the distance of Thirsk station from the town, the complication of making a junction with a four-track ECML and the time penalty for travelling north via Thirsk, it was deemed uneconomical and Ripon-Northallerton is the preferred route
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

support is one thing, cash is another.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


it is superb up on the tops around Stianmore but terrible in winter! I would love to have been able to travel the route by train if only to see some of the places we built in OO gauge.

I can't believe we have actually agreed on something.

 

[4141]

Which is why, if you are going to re-open a line, I mentioned the old Somerset and Dorset north from Shepton Mallet via Midsomer Norton and Radstock to Bath as that is where the locals commute. It would ease a lot of pressure on what is a slow drive.

Lovely in theory, but I could see big problems trying to wrest Combe Down Tunnel back from the Cycloids...

 

[Harbornite]

Radstock could surely not happen because the proposal is to reopen southwards to Frome, just because that was the most recently closed and undisturbed route. But honestly, hardly anyone in Radstock wants to go to Frome, they mainly look towards Bristol, and also to quite an extent towards Bath (old S&D tradition, plus the bus network for historic bus boundary reasons in the area focused more on Bath than Bristol).

A housing development is planned for the station site, and the trackwork was removed to make way for this. However, the developers support the reopening and will leave a corridor for a reinstated track.

 

[cm39275]

My 5 would be

1) Oxford-Thame-Princess Risborough (could be used by extending Chiltern railways service to oxford to form a loop service similar to what was the Oldham loop)
2) Banbury- Brackley- Buckingham- Verney Junction (a:could become an arm east to west service on the Varsity line. B:ideal to ease congestion on the A43 during Grand Prix at Silverstone as spectators can travel via rail to Brackley for connecting bus shuttles to the race circuit.)
3) grand central main line from Aylesbury to the Midlands main line at Leicester (can never work out why a main line built to intentionally link up to the continent was closed)
4) The East Lincolnshire line from Grimsby to Boston via Louth including the Mabelthorpe loop (should make a great alternative route to Grimsby from the south)
5) Kings Sutton- Kingham- Cheltenham spa (should make a good diversionary route between Birmingham and Cheltenham for south west bound cross country services)

 

[fgwrich]

Another one that should be a relatively easier job to re-introduce services on would be the Totton - Marchwood - Hythe line, connecting the eastern side of the New Forest and relieving some of the congestion on the local roads around there.