Double Headed Peaks On The MML

[70014IronDuke]

thinking back about it. the MkII's probably did have a/c. Such a long time ago though, hard to remember

BR introduced air-con MkIIs on the Sheffield fasts in October 1973. (this seemed a big deal at the time - the Midland had felt very much left out of developments after 1966).

But when I regularly used the line (up to Sept 1975), the semi-fasts rarely had any Mk IIs, and even if they did, they were not air-con stock.

the impression I get from reading here is that they kept the semi-fasts Mk 1 for quite a few years - although once the line had become 95% HST, I seem to remember seeing one of the two remaining loco-hauled trains and that had non air-con Mk IIs. I think that would have been 1985.

Later still, ISTR seeing the 'peak hour' LHCS sitting in St Pancras in 1990 and it was all air-con stock by then.

The above all from memory - apologies if incorrect on any points.
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Going back to the double-header turns on Sundays, I've not located the full log, but my other notes for the run I had on 15.5.83 with 47480+45107 from Leicester-London had the highlights: "81 mph at Desborough and 82 mph at Sharnbrook summits".
Which is substantially faster than a single Peak.

Indeed. This was with 9 on, I assume? So about 310t tare, 340t gross. Plus about 250 tonnes of locomotives ! Pretty much super power. I wonder, given a clear run to St Pancras, what timings such a combination could achieve, while still sticking to the official 90 mph limit. Probably close to 75 mins, I'd imagine.

faster then I even went over the summits, for sure, until my (very few) runs with modern traction.

I seem to remember topping those summits regularly at 60-70 max (see below).
I used to time with a 1/10th second stopwatch over half-mile stretches.

Found a trip from 25/3/83, southbound behind 45117, noting 61 mph over Sharnbrook (stopped at Kettering, but not Wellingborough).
A southbound trip in early June 1983 on an HST I noted as 86 mph over Sharnbrook, and the corresponding northbound trip a week later was a 45/1, noted at 68 mph over Sharnbrook.

As i wrote earlier, I thought the normal top speed for a fast was around 60 in the up direction over both summits. Ah, I see now your 68 was in the down direction - yes, that fits exactly with my memory - up trains could start the bank at 90 mph of course - hence the higher speed at the summit.

 

[eastwestdivide]

... up trains could start the bank at 90 mph of course - hence the higher speed at the summit.

Did you mean to type "down" rather than "up"? Up trains restricted by the 65 (?) through Wellingborough, but down trains no such restriction from Ampthill tunnel through Bedford and onwards up the hill to Sharnbrook.

The May 1983 double-header run mentioned above did Leicester-London in 81-and-a-quarter minutes (1414-and-a-half off Leicester, 1535-and-three-quarters into St Pancras, according to my notes).
An HST run of 5/6/83 did 76-and-a-quarter minutes with two stops (Leicester dep 1941-and-three-quarters, Wellingborough stop 2009-and-a-half to 2010-and-three-quarters, signal stop outside St P 2054-and-a-half to 2056 and arrival at St P at 2058), still managing 86mph over Sharnbrook despite stopping at Wellingborough.

One of these days I'll unearth the logs and write them up...

 

[70014IronDuke]

Did you mean to type "down" rather than "up"? Up trains restricted by the 65 (?) through Wellingborough, but down trains no such restriction from Ampthill tunnel through Bedford and onwards up the hill to Sharnbrook.

yes. down, of course. My mix up.

The May 1983 double-header run mentioned above did Leicester-London in 81-and-a-quarter minutes (1414-and-a-half off Leicester, 1535-and-three-quarters into St Pancras, according to my notes).
An HST run of 5/6/83 did 76-and-a-quarter minutes with two stops (Leicester dep 1941-and-three-quarters, Wellingborough stop 2009-and-a-half to 2010-and-three-quarters, signal stop outside St P 2054-and-a-half to 2056 and arrival at St P at 2058), still managing 86mph over Sharnbrook despite stopping at Wellingborough.

One of these days I'll unearth the logs and write them up...

Your May run with 2 type 4s, I suspect, was not flat out. I would imagine the crews eased the locos towards London to avoid gaining too much time. Or do you remember differently?

86 mph at MP 59 3/4 must have pushed you back in your seat

But I suppose it's been commonplace since around 1985.

 

[eastwestdivide]

...
Your May run with 2 type 4s, I suspect, was not flat out. I would imagine the crews eased the locos towards London to avoid gaining too much time. Or do you remember differently?
...

Well in fact we were something like 45 late leaving Leicester, so no reason to ease off.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well in fact we were something like 45 late leaving Leicester, so no reason to ease off.

Interesting. The reason I wrote this was because I thought 81-82 minutes was definitely within the possibilities of a single 45, and should have been fairly easy with two. Of course, being a Sunday, there may well have been a severe TSR or two to negotiate en route.

going back to those extracts from Table 53 that you posted - it came as quite a surprise to me that, despite the cuts that I thought were made in late 1975, there still appear to be two trains per hour, one fast, one semi-fast, on the MML. However, unlike the timetable valid from 68 or 69 and into the first half of the decade, these in 78-9 failed to fully inter-connect at Leicester. The result being that Derby and Nottingham only had one fast every two hours.

The former TT was most effective - giving an hourly service from almost* everywhere to everywhere, from St Albans to Mkt Harborough, from Loughborough to Luton - albeit sometimes with a change at Leicester. * not between Nottingham-Sheffield, that was just 1 TP2 hours.

 

[eastwestdivide]

When I was at Leicester, around 82, the basic off-peak pattern I remember was broadly speaking:
an hourly fast Sheffield, sort of alternating between Nottingham or Derby (Mk2 air-con)
a once per 2 hours all-stations Derby (Mk1s, calling at St Albans, Luton, Bedford etc.),
and a once per 2 hours semi-fast Nottingham (Mk2 air-con I think).

So pretty much as in those extracts. Plenty of exceptions though, and peak times and evenings were different.

When in later years the green incarnation of Midland Mainline brought in the 170s, they initially did that cross-platform interconnection with the faster HST services at Leicester, much as you described the 1968 etc timetables.
Nowadays of course there's 5 trains an hour on this route out of St Pancras, 2 of which go through to Sheffield.